therealjakeg
Well-known member
Im your gas man, Shoot me some questions from fire pits to heaters, even to your fancy new pool heater that you installed. I have an answer for that item tickling your mind. Enjoy.
Natural Gas Questions?
- Thread starter therealjakeg
- Start date
Ron Lombardo
Well-known member
1" gas line @ 200' can do up to 135,000 btu or 135MBH thats with the std 7" WC.
Ron
Ron
Bustawrench
Well-known member
Assuming it's Std steel pipe.................................
If it's Trac Pipe or Ward Flex, that's a whole 'nother story.
Ron Lombardo
Well-known member
I disagree .. look it up ... TRACPIPE if memory serves me correctly can do 82MBH with .5 drop in pressure ... and if he goes right to the meter and makes his tie in ... he can do better in the BTUS range. Also TRAC Pipe took this into consideration and the ID my be larger then std steel pipe
Ron
Ron
Thanks for the responses I have gotten answers anywhere from 3/4"
to 1 1/2" from HVAC guys I just don't want to have problems after the supply line is buried. I was planning on using the yellow flexible stuff you can get at Menards I dont know the technical name for it. What is Trac pipe, Ward flex & standard 7"WC? sorry to sound like a idiot but I am a electrician not a HVAC guy so I am not familier with the terms.
Thanks
Jim
to 1 1/2" from HVAC guys I just don't want to have problems after the supply line is buried. I was planning on using the yellow flexible stuff you can get at Menards I dont know the technical name for it. What is Trac pipe, Ward flex & standard 7"WC? sorry to sound like a idiot but I am a electrician not a HVAC guy so I am not familier with the terms.
Thanks
Jim
Ron Lombardo
Well-known member
Go here www.omegaflex.com/trac/technical/Omegaflex_DI_Guide.pdf page 76 ..... and you will see at the top of the chart 200' go directly down until you come to 82 MBH with a .5 pressure drop you can do 82MBH .... on page 77 with a 1.0 pressure drop you can do 115mbh ... then go to the left and you will see 1" in both cases .. yes exactly you need thier Underground System.... also the just came out with lightening strike components.
Ron
Ron
Burl
Well-known member
This may not be the kind of question that you're requesting...but here goes. I've seen a lot of stuff on here about electric boilers for pex in-floor heat, but very little bout natural gas ones. I've got a 30 X 32 X 12 garage, 1000' of pex in 4 spiral zones. What is a recommentation for a brand/company who could help with sizing and selling me a boiler. Thanks, Ron.
Ron Lombardo
Well-known member
Burl,
Great set up you have 960 sq ft and 1000 ft of tubing in 4 zones ,,, perfect. Just quessing your talking about 25 btu per ft @ 100 degrees of water temp.@ 70 degrees in the space x 906 sqft = 24,000 btu out put ... a very small instaneous direct vent condensing boiler will use less energy and cost you less then electric ...but the install cost will be greater.
I used a Bradford White EVERHOT it modulates and fires between 15,000 to 180,000 btu's I have 1728 sqft x 25btu ft = 43200 output = 60,000 btu input. I want the capacity to put an apt in my Barn so I will need domestic hot water also.
Ron
Great set up you have 960 sq ft and 1000 ft of tubing in 4 zones ,,, perfect. Just quessing your talking about 25 btu per ft @ 100 degrees of water temp.@ 70 degrees in the space x 906 sqft = 24,000 btu out put ... a very small instaneous direct vent condensing boiler will use less energy and cost you less then electric ...but the install cost will be greater.
I used a Bradford White EVERHOT it modulates and fires between 15,000 to 180,000 btu's I have 1728 sqft x 25btu ft = 43200 output = 60,000 btu input. I want the capacity to put an apt in my Barn so I will need domestic hot water also.
Ron
Ron Lombardo
Well-known member
mikeithappen
New member
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2023
- Messages
- 2
I’m running a 3/4” gas line to a back yard fire pit using polyethylene gas pipe with meter risers on both ends. Where exactly should the stub out be positioned at the fire pit? In the middle of the pit? Near the edge of the stone blocks? Mid way between the inside and outside circumference rings of the perimeter? Thanks!
HoosierBuddy
Well-known member
Mike,
You've resurrected a thread from 2009 as a way to ask this question. Not the best way to use the forum. In the future, please feel free to start a new thread.
To answer your question...you need to put that riser somewhere where the fire isn't impinging on it or heating it up. The way that riser is made, if you sectioned it with a saw, is the PE pipe comes in horizontally, turns 90-degrees inside the steel shield and goes into a compression joint that transitions it to steel right about where "ground level" is assumed to be by the manufacturer. So, most of the gas carrying pipe inside the riser is plastic. Only the last several inches is steel. If that PE gets hot, it will melt. The outer steel shield is not pressure rated. It just protects the PE inside from being cut by a mower or such.
If it was me, I would have the riser as far away from the actual fire as practical.
You've resurrected a thread from 2009 as a way to ask this question. Not the best way to use the forum. In the future, please feel free to start a new thread.
To answer your question...you need to put that riser somewhere where the fire isn't impinging on it or heating it up. The way that riser is made, if you sectioned it with a saw, is the PE pipe comes in horizontally, turns 90-degrees inside the steel shield and goes into a compression joint that transitions it to steel right about where "ground level" is assumed to be by the manufacturer. So, most of the gas carrying pipe inside the riser is plastic. Only the last several inches is steel. If that PE gets hot, it will melt. The outer steel shield is not pressure rated. It just protects the PE inside from being cut by a mower or such.
If it was me, I would have the riser as far away from the actual fire as practical.
mikeithappen
New member
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2023
- Messages
- 2
I’d like it away from heat as well but if there is a gas line popping up from the ground outside the fire pit perimeter where you walk, that would be a trip hazard. Plus I’ve never seen visible gas lines near a fire pit. I have to assume it stubs out within the outer perimeter. Maybe a few inches from the edge where holes in the stone blocks are drilled to allow it to come up. There is surprisingly little info online although I haven’t exhausted all search terms yet.
Walkers
Well-known member
Oh, brother! Another thread from the dead!
Walkers
Well-known member
Stub it up outside the pit, or inside the wall of the pit, then use a fireplace valve to get you back underground and up into the middle of the pit, or to the side if it is a log lighter.
I would pipe to the middle inside of the firepit, then maxitrol then pipe to stub of fireplace with Rated flex. Heat rises.
Should have a 0 clearance rating at bottom of fireplace.
Should have a 0 clearance rating at bottom of fireplace.
HoosierBuddy
Well-known member
If you get the steel end of the riser hot, that heat is going right back to the PE which is merely inches away inside that steel protective shell. PE melts at 230 degrees F. Natural gas burns at up to 3600 degrees F.
The type of fire pit will have some influence on this. Also you can buy flex risers. They can be dug in different ways depending on the situation.
I dont understand this comment, Pe risers are metal and only pe at the bottom of the riser. Normally over 24" underground.
Fireplaces, have everything from gas valve to plastic under the fireplace. Most outdoor fireplaces, everything is right under the unit. Pe should never be above ground where it can get near the heat, or sun
like2wheel
Well-known member
Did you read post #15?
Every riser I have seen the PE goes right up through to the threaded end. The steel is just a jacket to protect the PE.
On flex risers, but a hard riser should be used
casetractorfarmer
Well-known member
Hey gas man whats your take on navien boilers
Firebrick43
Well-known member
Hey gas man, is beano or gas-x better?
HoosierBuddy
Well-known member
You are wrong. The pe goes all the way up inside the steel jacket, is crimped into a compression coupling in the vertical part of the riser. I’m talking about the “hard” risers. I’ve bought thousands of these for my job and that’s the way they are all made. It actually has to be made that way to prevent the carrier pipe from being subject to corrosion when the jacket leaks water back into the annular space.
Last edited:
I see, never used that brand. I have used perfection. I could be wrong, however does not change that most fireplaces, and outdoor pits have a 0 clearance under them. meaning it will not get hot enough to melt.
All empire units have 0 clearance on bottom, left and right. All hookups are directly underneath.
I didn't sell that brand either, but it was all I could find on the 'net on short order.
I sold Gastite. Gastite underground was just rebranded from some other manufacturer. I often wondered how many manufacturers there is for CSST and poly underground. When I was i nthe field we used a couple other brands, (which I forget!), but there risers were identical and I believe the Gastite risers were the same.
As for the riser for the fire pit, I would assume it can go right under the pit, bit with no information as to the fire pit he plans on using I wouldn't stick my neck out and assume.
We did a fire pit for a customer. It was some large custom pit. We ran the main gas to a point a few feet from the pit and all the gas controls were at that point. Then we ran a short underground to the pit itself and ran control wire back and for for flame sense and ignition. I remember doing some out of the ordinary plumbing for the gas. The local inspector was involved from start to finish as it was not a normal install.
True, If we ever did a custom set up, we always transitioned from pe to cast or copper under ground before coming up out of the ground.
This limits where the pe comes out. and gives better flexibility on where we can come out of.
I have only ever used the flexible risers on tank installs, when it came to PE to Flex riser
I worked for a company that did mostly commercial so we ran into some pretty strange installs. Industrial NG at 3.5 and 5 PSI for example, running in 2" threaded mains.
We did a gas fireplace for the local shopping mall. All custom stuff. The city would not let us run it as beings it was all custom none of it was UL listed. Most all the controls were, but not the assembled unit. UL would not look at it and we found another listing company that came out and inspected it, ran some tests and signed off on it. The mall paid something like $15,000 for the listing. 960,000 BTU of gas, going right up the chimney! Operating costs were about $3,500 a month, and it was decorative, not one BTU was used for heat.