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Neat wiring in electrical boxes

zmaxmotorsports

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The only function this serves is to identify work done by a DIY'er. No electrician does this.

Nice write up and nice work mtne. That's the way to do it correctly.

As far as the advice to use shorter wire, NO, NO, NO!!! That's another sure fire sign that work was done by a DIY'er. Nothing worse than opening up a box and barely being able to get the recep or switch past the box to work on it.

I still tape up wire nuts sometimes,for me its more of a way of knowing I did the work at a later date.
It also keeps maintenance guys from playing with things they shouldn't.
I also wrap my plugs switches with super33 before shoving them into the box,again its slows people down from playing with things.
Last time I looked I still had one license that said Master Electrician and another that says Electrical Contractor ,class A on it.
Ive never had a DIY'er Electricians license.
And few things drive me nuts like pulling out a plug/switch and finding an inch of wire past the box.:beer:
 
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The FIB

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chicagoland
I think it's a good idea on any outside box to point the wire nuts up. One, those boxes seem to attract dirt and two, sometimes water wicks in no matter how hard you try to gasket the fixture. No need for little mini wire spas.

As a young apprentice electrician (many years ago) I was taught to point the wire nuts up, in case there is ever a leak in the wall it will not hold water at the splice and cause it to corrode, I have done it that way since.
 

mobiledynamics

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Zmax -

I always wrap with tape on the recept but that's more because we use steel boxes in here.
80% of the time, we're going back clamps anyhow.

I use 33 tape as well, but I do a reverse wrap, as it does get gummy over time
 

CKS1955

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Michigan
For romex there should be a minimum of 1/4" of insulation inside the box.

smugshot3008038-L.jpg


This technique is just a general ideal and can be tailored to work well with, or help, making up any box.

I believe NEC also states a maximum of 1" of insulation in the box. The above picture appears to exceed that.

Jay
 

DonPowers

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Before pulling any wire I sketch out the required circuits and assign them to breakers. The following is a sketch of my upstairs circuits.

View media item 48974

Here is of my panel. At this point there were a couple circuits connected for temporary power. The bundle of wires coming through the conduit are for upstairs circuits. Each wire is numbered in a couple of locations.

View media item 47628
The wires were then split, odd circuits on the left and even circuits on the right. After stripping the sheathing, I cut it into half inch segments, numbered them and ran all three conductors for each circuit in the corresponding number. Then I numbered the ground bars and connected all the neutral & ground wires. Hot wires were connected after circuits are ready to be powered. When this photo was taken, not all circuits were connected and some temporary circuits were still connected.

View media item 47688
Here are the wires going to the second floor and attic. There is also a conduit for future use, in case I forgot something before the wall is closed in. (In this photo the conduit is not finished.)

View media item 48975
I installed 8x8x4 distribution boxes in the attic for each circuit that goes through there. Wires from all the lights and switches for each circuit feed into the boxes and connections are made there. This eliminates congested switch boxes and allows me to make future switching changes. (Some rooms will have up to 7 lights and 5 switches.)

Behind the distribution boxes is a runner board that runs the entire length of the building. A second runner board, not shown, runs on the other side of the building near the peak.

View media item 48977
 

Alchymist

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I see a possible problem in that the cables are bundled in a group, which may require de-rating. If memory serves, section 300 of the NEC covers this, though it's a bear to understand. Can't tell from the pic - are the individual cables separated?
 

DonPowers

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DonPowers

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How long is the 2 inch conduit coming out of the top of your panel?

The 2" conduit goes through the upper plate and about 6" into the floor truss, but not to the second floor. All penetrations will be sealed with Fireblock Foam prior to closing things in. Spare conduits will also be plugged.

There will also be two 1.25" conduits, one on each corner of the panel going into the floor truss space. Will also install two removable segments, one above and the other below below the panel for future access.




View media item 47627
 

n8n

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Code calls for 6" exposed wire length.

One reason I usually use the "deep" boxes, and "Z" fold the wires. Like this: (excuse the crappy picture).

that's the deal, arrange the wires in an "S" or "Z" shape so they fold nicely when you push them back in. Wire nuts if any to the back of the box first.
 

Cmreschke

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So it looks like you've got 10 or 11 cables going through that 2 " conduit.
I'm wondering if you derated as well. That's 20 to 22 ccc in that conduit.
If 20 your circuits only allowed to carry 15 amps max which breakers the same way.
If there's 22 your only allowed 13.5 amps max, you can probably breaker it at 15 amps but either way you can't put a 20 amp breaker on these wires legally.
 

DonPowers

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So it looks like you've got 10 or 11 cables going through that 2 " conduit.
I'm wondering if you derated as well. That's 20 to 22 ccc in that conduit.
If 20 your circuits only allowed to carry 15 amps max which breakers the same way.
If there's 22 your only allowed 13.5 amps max, you can probably breaker it at 15 amps but either way you can't put a 20 amp breaker on these wires legally.

Thanks Cmreschke.

I ran the number of wires in the 2" by our electrical safety guy at work, a licensed electrician. He said I was fine, will have to run that by him.

15 amps is fine as most of the circuits are for lighting and since I'm using LED lighting, will most likely not see much more than 100 Watts per circuit. Its a bit of overkill, even with 15 amp circuit breakers.

Each room also has two circuits for outlets. Not much load up there as one room is storage, another my office and the third a hangout room for grandkids when visiting.

Could also pull the two spare wires from the 2" and run them in the 1.25".

Thanks again.
 
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Alchymist

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So it looks like you've got 10 or 11 cables going through that 2 " conduit.
I'm wondering if you derated as well. That's 20 to 22 ccc in that conduit.
If 20 your circuits only allowed to carry 15 amps max which breakers the same way.
If there's 22 your only allowed 13.5 amps max, you can probably breaker it at 15 amps but either way you can't put a 20 amp breaker on these wires legally.

Yep, part of what I referred to in my previous post. IIR, the max is 3 nm before de-rating is required. I'd double check on it all.
 

Cmreschke

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Depends on the three, if they are 12/2 you can put 4 nm in a raceway and be ok. If the are 12/3 nm then only three are allowed. The magic number is 9 ccc.
 

GuyllFyre

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DonPowers, you wire like a network cabling guy.
It's meant as a compliment if you are not one.
I work in IT, have run lots of CAT5 cable, also worked general contracting and maintenance, so have pulled lots of romex.
Did a gig with Nextel and also ran coax feeds for indoor/outdoor antenna setups.
 

DonPowers

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DonPowers, you wire like a network cabling guy.
It's meant as a compliment if you are not one.
I work in IT, have run lots of CAT5 cable, also worked general contracting and maintenance, so have pulled lots of romex.
Did a gig with Nextel and also ran coax feeds for indoor/outdoor antenna setups.

Thanks GuyllFyre, I'm one of them Engineers that everyone loves to hate. I proudly refer to myself as a Techie Nerd.
 

GuyllFyre

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Thanks GuyllFyre, I'm one of them Engineers that everyone loves to hate. I proudly refer to myself as a Techie Nerd.

As a fellow techie who started in engineering, I love to see neat and clean wiring jobs like this. It's so much easier to diagnose problems when you can see where it all goes.

I'm used to being a mobile tech.
"We have a network problem we can't figure out."
Me, looking at the spaghetti pile of CAT5 cables with a D-Link hub perched on top.
"Yes, but I see your problem."
 

mgudites

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May 30, 2015
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Hi all,

Found this thread while doing a Google search, something like "how the hell do I cram all these wires into this electrical box?"

I just moved into a new place, and I've installed my share of dimmer switches before (not an electrician, but I'm handy)...but there's this one box in the house that I swear, I just can't get them all in there without feeling like I'm cramming them in improperly. Tried "folding," tried the "Z" thing. I think I just have to keep telling myself that it may not look pretty, but as long as my connections are tight then I should be okay (right?).

Really wish it were just a standard that all electricians/contractors used the deeper boxes by default, so guys like me (and any professionals who have to come do work on the same box later on, for that matter) wouldn't have this problem. I'm sure it's fractions of a penny to use the better boxes but you know how it goes. It just annoys me though...the whole time I'm doing something like this, I'm thinking to myself, "in this day and age, why should doing something like this be so difficult...there's gotta be a better way, it's just sticking some wires into a box."

:eyecrazy:
 

MTW

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SE Michigan
Suggestions on terminating boxes

The procedure I prefer to use is to not "fold" the wiring into the box, but to wind it, similar to a coil spring. It works for solid or stranded conductors.

Before you begin, study the layout of the box, conductors, devices to be installed. Lay the wiring devices out in position near you, so that you can visualize where the connection points need to be, in final placement. Picture in your mind the coiling direction of rotation that would be best suited. Do the wires originate from a similar direction, and help dictate which direction is best? If from multiple directions, which way of winding will introduce the least number of bends "folds" in the wiring? Which direction will end up leaving the best place for the wirenuts to reside without interfering with the space required of the device?

The idea is to give some serious thought to the layout before you begin. The worst method is to strip and cut to length the conductors, make the splices then try to cram it in the box.

Start with the conductors "way longer" than you think you need, don't be cheap here. With the coiling method it is often easier to put more wire in the box than less. Pick one common mode of rotation direction for all the wires. Start by spiral training "wrapping" them into the back of the box, as in their final resting place. On the first wrap, train the wires to rest around the periphery edges of the box. Do at least 1 complete wrap around the box, then consider where it needs to land according to your earlier planned layout. Wrap the "additional" amount it needs to reach is landing point, and leave the excess sticking out of the box. Do this to all of the conductors before cutting any of them to length. At the end of this procedure, all wiring should be nicely coiled in it final resting place at the back periphery of the box. No cramming will be necessary. In fact the opposite will usually will be true. Once trimmed to final length, the wire will need to be pulled out slightly to make the terminations, then just gently move it back to the position where it was originally.

When servicing the installation it's easy to pop the coiled "spring" out of the box, to access the terminations. Less pressure is exerted on the terminations, and the connections when making the final placement of devices, and therefore are less likely to loosen, placing them in the final resting spot.

Place the grounds the furthest back and terminate them first, adding some pigtails for the installed devices and box as required. Then do the neutrals, adding any required pigtails. Tuck the grounds and neutrals into the final resting place, then proceed in the same fashion with the line conductors and wiring devices.

When making the terminations to the devices, only pull out the wiring as little as necessary to make the connection. Then it will naturally have less physical resistance going back to the location it was just in.

Using "pigtails" to feed receptacles from in and out cable connections is good practice. The down stream receptacles wont be dependent on the upstream receptacle screw connections. Downstream devices will only rely upon the splice "wirenut" connection, not on the receptacle termination screws. The NEC requires this for any neutral on a multiwire circuit.

300.13 Mechanical and Electrical Continuity — Conductors.
(B) Device Removal. In multiwire branch circuits, the
continuity of a grounded conductor shall not depend on
device connections such as lampholders, receptacles, and
so forth, where the removal of such devices would interrupt
the continuity.

MTW Ω
 
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