NEC code for our garages

[thammel]

I have an attached garage - attached via a mudroom. It has a half bath. I'm taking my good old time getting everything done and expanding the wiring is on my plate now. Reading NEC 2008, I think I see things that surprise me. Tell me if the following is true:

The half bath (toilet and sink) receptacle must be on its own 20a circuit with nothing else on that circuit and if must be GFCI protected.

The garage receptacles must all be GFCI protected.

I'm sure I can GFCI protect the outlets be having the first one be a GFCI receptacle.

Am I right on all these accounts?

Thanks,
Tom

 

[Steevo]

I have an attached garage - attached via a mudroom. It has a half bath. I'm taking my good old time getting everything done and expanding the wiring is on my plate now. Reading NEC 2008, I think I see things that surprise me. Tell me if the following is true:

The half bath (toilet and sink) receptacle must be on its own 20a circuit with nothing else on that circuit and if must be GFCI protected.
True, although I believe you can have additional receptacles in the bath that are on the same GFCI.
The garage receptacles must all be GFCI protected.
True
I'm sure I can GFCI protect the outlets be having the first one be a GFCI receptacle.
True. But limit the number of downstream receptacles on each circuit to four or less.
Am I right on all these accounts?

Thanks,
Tom

See answers in red above.

 

[aandpdan]

Are you sure you're still on 2008 NEC?

You can put the entire bathroom, including bathroom lights on one 20 amp GFCI circuit, nothing else.

Yes to GFCI's and even on the GDO.

 

[thammel]

I'm in MD and borrowed a friend's 208 code. We probably are up to 2011 code here.

I"m ok on the bathroom question - a 20 amp dedicated circuit.

On the garage receptacles, I'll use a GFCI breaker then, as I really don't want to be limited to 4 receptacles on a string after a first GFCI receptacle.

One more question - does the code call for tamper resistant receptacles?

Thanks!
Tom

 

[Stuart in MN]

A manufacturer may have some limitations on how many receptacles you can have downstream of one of their GFCIs, but there is nothing in the NEC about it. Check the instructions that come with the GFCI you buy.

As for what edition of the NEC is in force in Maryland:

Adopted Code. 2011 National Electrical Code, effective July 19, 2011.
Adoption type: Hybrid. Code was adopted by the state and applies to state-owned facilities and to any jurisdictions that have never adopted a statute to govern electrical work. However, most local jurisdictions adopt and enforce different codes.

So, you need to check with your local authorities.

Finally, tamper resistant receptacles were added to the 2008 NEC for all residential work. Again, since the enforcement varies in your state check with the local authorities to see if they are required. http://www.nfpa.org/assets/files//PDF/Fact sheets/TamperResistant.pdf

 

[Kevin C]

For my new garage in Portland OR I had to use tamper resistant and GFI on all the 120 V outlets. I was told that I could have one non GFI outlet for a power tool such as a table saw. No idea what part of the code that came from, but two differant inspectors told me that.

Two things I noticed.

1: Eleven double bulb T8 florescent lights on one circuit at 7of draw amps each is well within its rated capacity of the 20 amp circuit they are on. The limiting factor is that the GFI nuisance trips all the time. The more lights that are on, the faster it happens.

I'm pretty sure its a harmonics issue from having ballasts that don't have power factor correction. I don't know if there are any other factors like using conduit or run length.

Not totally crazy about tamper proof sockets. The blade engagement is less and they seem to pull out easier. The upside is if any six year old child happens to be on a ladder and is able to reach the 10' high ceiling mounted outlets for the garage door opener and lights they wont get shocked.

 

[Steevo]

I didn't mean to imply that NEC code limited the number of downstream receptacles after a GFCI receptacle, only that it is a good practice to do so to avoid overloads or nuisance trips.

 

[Speedy Petey]

For my new garage in Portland OR I had to use tamper resistant and GFI on all the 120 V outlets. I was told that I could have one non GFI outlet for a power tool such as a table saw. No idea what part of the code that came from, but two differant inspectors told me that.

This must be a local amendment. This is NOT how the NEC reads.
ALL 120V, 15 & 20A receptacles in a garage MUST be GFI protected. No exceptions.

1: Eleven double bulb T8 florescent lights on one circuit at 7of draw amps each is well within its rated capacity of the 20 amp circuit they are on. The limiting factor is that the GFI nuisance trips all the time. The more lights that are on, the faster it happens.

I'm pretty sure its a harmonics issue from having ballasts that don't have power factor correction. I don't know if there are any other factors like using conduit or run length.

WHY is your lighting GFI protected???

Not totally crazy about tamper proof sockets. The blade engagement is less and they seem to pull out easier. The upside is if any six year old child happens to be on a ladder and is able to reach the 10' high ceiling mounted outlets for the garage door opener and lights they wont get shocked.

Funny, I find the opposite. Plugs are harder to insert and they hold better.

 

[thammel]

I agree - I would not put the lighting on a GFI - not required. I'm putting up 8 quad t8 fixtures. This is a total of about an 8-9 amp draw. I'm using 14 gauge wire and a 15 amp Square D QO breaker. All should be fine.

All my receptacles will be GFI protected at least. The electricians who put in the minimum receptacles, put them on a 15 amp Arc fault breaker. This seems like overkill. I'll leave these in but add 20 amp ones and will probably go with 2 gang boxes and put in 2 receptacles, each on its own 20 amp circuit. I think this was an excellent suggestion made in this forum.

Tom

 

[Kevin C]

WHY is your lighting GFI protected???

I did not direct wire the lights, I have hanging, shielded shop lights with line cords. I like them because the short chain that they hang on combined with the protective grid makes them very forgiving to being hit with long pieces of material or ladders. My understanding is that if its a socket it has to be on a GFI. I could modify the lights by direct wiring them and get rid of the line cords. Did I miss something on this?


QUOTE=Speedy Petey;2826216]This must be a local amendment. This is NOT how the NEC reads.
ALL 120V, 15 & 20A receptacles in a garage MUST be GFI protected. No exceptions.

That was what I thought as well but I was told otherwise. We are on 2011 code and Oregon has its own version. I went through it but never found anything that supported what I was told. I'm assuming they had bad info, I was curious what others thought or if I had missed something.

http://rrdocs.nfpa.org/rrserver/browser?title=/NFPAOR/OregonNEC2011

Oregon Electrical Code

Funny, I find the opposite. Plugs are harder to insert and they hold better.

I found that they hold pretty well as long as they are fully seated. Once they are partially pulled out they come out all the way. This was not an issue for normal cords, but I found that small plug in transformers and nailing on the wall were a bad mix. They seemed to pop out very easily.

 

[jkeyser14]

I found that they hold pretty well as long as they are fully seated. Once they are partially pulled out they come out all the way. This was not an issue for normal cords, but I found that small plug in transformers and nailing on the wall were a bad mix. They seemed to pop out very easily.

I've had mixed observations. I have some 3 year old tamper resistant outlets that annoy the heck out of me. When I try to plug something in I have to force the plug pretty hard to get it to seat fully. If I don't push hard enough about 1/8" of the contacts remain exposed. The plug is still held very well though.

Then, in the last couple of months I put tamper resistant outlets in my garage, same Leviton line that I used 3 years ago. This batch is much much nicer. Plugs go in very easily. The only transformer I've plugged in so far is my radio, and I haven't noticed any issues there so far.

 

[Dick in Wisconsin]

Reading NEC 2008,

The half bath (toilet and sink) receptacle must be on its own 20a circuit with nothing else on that circuit and if must be GFCI protected.

So, each bathroom must be on its own 20amp circuit, right?

My 20 y/o house has all the outlets in the two baths PLUS the single (original) outlet in the garage on the same 15amp circuit with a CFCI at the beginning of the circuit.

I've thought ... given that you're prone to have hair dryers, hair curlers, etc. plugged in in the bathrooms, wouldn't it make sense to have a separate 20amp circuit to EACH bathroom? And a separate 20amp circuit for the garage outlet?

Apparently in 20 years the NEC must have changed.

 

[aandpdan]

IAll my receptacles will be GFI protected at least. The electricians who put in the minimum receptacles, put them on a 15 amp Arc fault breaker. This seems like overkill. I'll leave these in but add 20 amp ones and will probably go with 2 gang boxes and put in 2 receptacles, each on its own 20 amp circuit. I think this was an excellent suggestion made in this forum.

Tom

Check with your AHJ. You don't need AFCI breakers in a garage, they're not required by NEC - GFCI protection is. Normally you don't run both.

Outlets over 5.5 feet are exempt from the tamper resistant as are those behind major appliances.

 

[eljefino]

When did you get the garage done, when or if did you get your final inspection and occupancy permit? Am I right in that the garage is at least a few years old but maybe the mud room and bathroom are new or newer or getting done?

If your existing garage is, say, ten years old and has some existing wiring, you're grandfathered. JMO but I'd like a few non GFI outlets for the garage door opener and fridge/freezer if you have them. "Use-ta be" outlets way up high or blocked by an appliance didn't need GFI.

 

[thammel]

The garage(with half bath) and mudroom were all added in 2008 with final inspection and occupancy completed in Sept of 2010. I've been slow getting all done - my bad. I'm adding all electrical I want, then will insulate. Got old kitchen cabs to put up. Gotta do drywall. Finally the floor....OH, I forgot the heat. I have a 60k Reznor Udas. Wanna get a mini split. Gotta run the lp gas lines for the Reznor. I'm fed up with cold. This will all get done before next winter.

It's a 32 x 28 with 12' ceilings and a 12x32 room up above - used attic trusses. This is in addition to the tiny 20x20 garage integrated into the house.

Tom

 

[Falcon67]

On the garage receptacles, I'll use a GFCI breaker then, as I really don't want to be limited to 4 receptacles on a string after a first GFCI receptacle.

I run 10~12 after a GFCI. I have 4 plug runs in the shop, all start with a GFCI in a quad box, then feed out to between 2 to 3 quad boxes. All wall outlets are used for power tools, the only tool dedicated runs are the 240V runs. GFCI outlets are waaay cheaper than a GFCI breaker. No problems with false trips - I have all kinds of saws, lathe, sander, drills, etc.