NEC Code question for the experts

[stomperxj]

Greetings all. I just had my rough inspection and have a few questions...

First off... Specs:

Boise Idaho area
Detached 28x28 with 9ft walls
16x8 roll up, 1 entry door

I installed regular outlets (approx 36) and the inspector said I need to swap them out with a tamper proof GFI at the start of each circuit and tamper proof outlets on the rest. This sounds ridiculous to me but I know nothing about the code.

Can anyone verify this?

Thanks in advance for the help...

Jess

 

[RivennHewn]

Ask him for a reference number.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Yes the tamper resistant outlets have been code for quite a few years,nanny state is getting worse every code cycle.
Thats one of the reasons Im doing my part to get completely out of the trades after this year and concentrate onmotorcycles and hot rods

 

[Zeke]

210.52(G)

406.12 Tamper-Resistant Receptacles in Dwelling Units. All nonlocking type 15A and 20A, 125V receptacles in the following areas of a dwelling unit [210.52] must be listed as tamper-resistant.

Wall Space — 210.52(A)
Small-Appliance Circuit — 210.52(B)
Countertop Space — 210.52(C)
Bathroom Area — 210.52(D)
Outdoors — 210.52(E)
Laundry Area — 210.52(F)
Garage and Outbuildings — 210.52(G)
Hallways — 210.52(H)

http://ecmweb.com/nec/2011-national-electrical-code-changes?page=19

 

[pitterpat]

210.52(G)

406.12 Tamper-Resistant Receptacles in Dwelling Units. All nonlocking type 15A and 20A, 125V receptacles in the following areas of a dwelling unit [210.52] must be listed as tamper-resistant.

Wall Space — 210.52(A)
Small-Appliance Circuit — 210.52(B)
Countertop Space — 210.52(C)
Bathroom Area — 210.52(D)
Outdoors — 210.52(E)
Laundry Area — 210.52(F)
Garage and Outbuildings — 210.52(G)
Hallways — 210.52(H)

http://ecmweb.com/nec/2011-national-electrical-code-changes?page=19

Learned something here, did not know I had to have tamper resistant outlets in all of these places.

 

[Stuart in MN]

The NEC has required GFCIs for quite a while in garages, the tamper resistant receptacle requirement was just added in 2011. However, it would help to know where you live (at least, in what state) - different states go by different versions of the NEC, and in addition the individual states sometimes make changes here and there in the code.

 

[jkeyser14]

210.52(G)

406.12 Tamper-Resistant Receptacles in Dwelling Units. All nonlocking type 15A and 20A, 125V receptacles in the following areas of a dwelling unit [210.52] must be listed as tamper-resistant.

Wall Space — 210.52(A)
Small-Appliance Circuit — 210.52(B)
Countertop Space — 210.52(C)
Bathroom Area — 210.52(D)
Outdoors — 210.52(E)
Laundry Area — 210.52(F)
Garage and Outbuildings — 210.52(G)
Hallways — 210.52(H)

http://ecmweb.com/nec/2011-national-electrical-code-changes?page=19

He said it's a detached garage, does it still qualify as a dwelling unit? I lent my code book out so I can't look up the definition of "dwelling unit".

 

[pattenp]

He said it's a detached garage, does it still qualify as a dwelling unit? I lent my code book out so I can't look up the definition of "dwelling unit".

The detached garage is considered an Outbuilding.

 

[ddawg16]

GFIC for sure...that has been in place for garages for a long time.....basically, any outlet where you can touch the ground has to be protected via GFIC.

Just do what he says.....last thing you want is to get into a ******* contest with him.

 

[nwav8tor]

Just had mine inspected in western WA last month and was passed with TR GFCI outlets as the first on each circuit but all the rest just standard outlets.

Paul

 

[pitterpat]

The NEC has required GFCIs for quite a while in garages, the tamper resistant receptacle requirement was just added in 2011. However, it would help to know where you live (at least, in what state) - different states go by different versions of the NEC, and in addition the individual states sometimes make changes here and there in the code.

I live in Indiana

 

[Speedy Petey]

This is a perfect example of why you should know the codes in place BEFORE doing a DIY project. It can save you time, money and aggravation.

The TR thing I can almost see being wrong on. Not every area has adopted them fully, but the vast majority have I will say.
The GFI thing??? This has been code required basically forever. The only thing that has changed is that a few code cycles ago they expanded it to ALL 120V receptacles, even ceilings (such as lighting and GDO's).

 

[Speedy Petey]

He said it's a detached garage, does it still qualify as a dwelling unit? I lent my code book out so I can't look up the definition of "dwelling unit".

Ummm, no. A garage is just that, a garage.

It's an accessory building to a dwelling unit, so many/most inspectors do apply some dwelling unit codes, but most things, such as the things in this case, are specifically "garage" related in the eyes of the code.

 

[nehog]

Ummm, no. A garage is just that, a garage.

It's an accessory building to a dwelling unit, so many/most inspectors do apply some dwelling unit codes, but most things, such as the things in this case, are specifically "garage" related in the eyes of the code.

It is an outbuilding, regardless of whether it is a garage, utility building, shop or whatever. The code is clear.

 

[sparky36000]

Yes the tamper resistant outlets have been code for quite a few years,nanny state is getting worse every code cycle.
Thats one of the reasons Im doing my part to get completely out of the trades after this year and concentrate onmotorcycles and hot rods

Isn't that the truth. I sometimes wonder if manufacturers aren't pushing some of these ridiculous changes to sell equipment.

Unfortunately, if the area your in has adopted the 2011 NEC your stuck. I don't agree I should have to put TR receps. in my shop either, but I have to work with the inspectors on the job, not just in my personal project. It's in my best interest just to comply rather than argue. It just might make my life easier on the job.

 

[ddawg16]

This is a perfect example of why you should know the codes in place BEFORE doing a DIY project. It can save you time, money and aggravation.

The TR thing I can almost see being wrong on. Not every area has adopted them fully, but the vast majority have I will say.
The GFI thing??? This has been code required basically forever. The only thing that has changed is that a few code cycles ago they expanded it to ALL 120V receptacles, even ceilings (such as lighting and GDO's).

That^^^

In my area (LA), they had not been enforcing the TR outlets....but now they are....

I have to be honest....I was expecting them to be a PIA to use....but I've actually had not issues.

 

[DekeT]

Yes the tamper resistant outlets have been code for quite a few years,nanny state is getting worse every code cycle.
Thats one of the reasons Im doing my part to get completely out of the trades after this year and concentrate onmotorcycles and hot rods

I feel compelled to call BS on this "nanny state" ****. The code writing is driven by the supply industry that wants you to buy as much hardware as possible. Blaming the gubmint is just lazily fashionable. If actual electricians still wrote the code it would only be a couple short chapters.

 

[Stuart in MN]

I live in Indiana

Now, that may be important - I looked around online to see what revision of the NEC they are using and found this:

http://www.iaei.org/regulations/us/indiana/
Adopted Code. 2008 National Electrical Code. On June 2, 2009 the Indiana Fire Prevention and Building Safety Commission voted to adopt the 2008 NEC while deleting all Arc-Fault circuit protection and Tamper Resistant Receptacle requirements from the 2008 NEC.

And this:

http://www.in.gov/dhs/2490.htm
(scroll down to where it says "IEC 17 - Electrical Code", and click on the pdf file.)

Online information may or may not be up to date, but it sounds like they may not require the tamper resistance receptacles. You could politely ask the inspector about it.

 

[Steevo]

Looks like I finished mine at the right time.
Had my final inspection in early 2011 (Idaho Falls, ID), and wasn't required to use tamper-proof receptacles.

 

[Kevin C]

Yes the tamper resistant outlets have been code for quite a few years,nanny state is getting worse every code cycle.

I was one of the people they had in mind when they wrote the code. When I was five I was fascinated with electricity and magnets. I put nails in each side of a wall outlet and brought the face of one side of a horseshoe magnet up to it to see what would happen. To this day I have no idea how I got those nails in without getting shocked.

I really expected some kind to get some kind of glowing when I brought the magnet close to the nail heads.... Nothing. So I brought the magnet closer and closer, still nothing. I was sure something should happen... But nothing did. I tried again and ended up shorting the two nail heads with the magnet.

That got me a bright flash and probably a good shock. That part I don't remember. My Mom screaming at me was probably a lot more traumatic.

Bottom line, is kids do silly things and will wait until your not watching to try them. I was lucky that i did not get a big enough shock to have gotten killed.

This happens a pretty fair amount. Knowing how I was as a kid, the law makes sense.

 

[Jagmandave]

What is it that makes these tamper resistant compared to a regular outlet?

I looked at the pics and didn't see anything obvious about them....the only real difference I saw was they're 10X the price of regular outlets!

Edit: Google is my friend!

These receptacles have spring-loaded shutters that close off the contact openings, or slots, of the receptacles. When a plug is inserted into the receptacle, both springs are compressed and the shutters then open, allowing for the metal prongs to make contact to create an electrical circuit. Because both springs must be compressed at the same time, the shutters do not open when a child attempts to insert an object into only one contact opening, and there is no contact with electricity.

 

[Stuart in MN]

What is it that makes these tamper resistant compared to a regular outlet?

Tamper resistant receptacles have a little interlock in them to discourage kids from sticking paper clips in them. They're designed so the two prongs of a regular plug have to be pushed in at the same time, if you try to push something in just one side the interlock blocks it.

 

[stomperxj]

Wow thanks for all the replies gentlemen. I really appreciate it. Looks like I need to hit Lowes and get some GFCIs and TR outlets. I also have some other things to fix that he found...

250.32 B - Separate all neutrals and grounds in panel
334.24 - 2 runs of Romex have too tight of bends
314.16 - 4 sq x 1 1/2" boxes are too small/shallow for the amount of conductors i have in them.
250.148 - Need ground pigtails on my welder plugs in metal boxes
300.14 - couple boxes have too short of conductors

Not too bad for my first electrical work. I got some tips from a few friends and my dad.

Thanks again for the quick replies. I'm off to Lowes

 

[Charles (in GA)]

If the boxes are exposed and you don't mind the looks, you probably could use 4x4 box extensions to get the additional volume you need. This is basically a 4x4 shallow box with no bottom, just slots in the corners to catch the screws and attaches like a cover. Looks a little tacky but works well. I used several to get more working room for junctions and wire nut bundles. Saves having to try to fold them down so tight, even if the box fill is not exceeded.

For ground pigtails, you could buy these from an electrical supply house in a bag....

I bought these packages of pigtails from Cripe Distributing along with some other items. $6 was way cheaper than other sources.

Edit: for a welding circuit, these may not be heavy enough, as they are 12 gauge.

 

[Speedy Petey]

I looked at the pics and didn't see anything obvious about them....the only real difference I saw was they're 10X the price of regular outlets!

Um...not quite. Not even close in fact.

 

[Dick in Wisconsin]

Yes the tamper resistant outlets have been code for quite a few years,nanny state is getting worse every code cycle.
Thats one of the reasons Im doing my part to get completely out of the trades after this year and concentrate onmotorcycles and hot rods

I think government regulation of motorcyles and hot rods was including in either the Dodd Frank Act or the ObamaCare legislation.

 

[Dick in Wisconsin]

For ground pigtails, you could buy these from an electrical supply house in a bag....

I bought these packages of pigtails from Cripe Distributing along with some other items. $6 was way cheaper than other sources.

Explain how you would use these? I looked closely at the pictures, and couldn't see how they would work.

 

[Dick in Wisconsin]

These receptacles have spring-loaded shutters that close off the contact openings, or slots, of the receptacles. When a plug is inserted into the receptacle, both springs are compressed and the shutters then open, allowing for the metal prongs to make contact to create an electrical circuit. Because both springs must be compressed at the same time, the shutters do not open when a child attempts to insert an object into only one contact opening, and there is no contact with electricity.

So after a couple of attempts to put something into one of the contact openings, the child attempts to insert something into both of the contact openings at the same ... then aren't we back to the original problem that the tamper resistant outlets were created to stop?

 

[wyliesdiesels]

What many have done, who hate the TR recep., is install 'em for the inspections and then go back and swap them out for reg. recep. once the final inspection is signed off. And yes, GFIs have been required in garages for ages...

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Explain how you would use these? I looked closely at the pictures, and couldn't see how they would work.

They have a captive screw on one end, and a open "fork" end on the other. You use them to jumper from the ground on the device (receptacle, switch, etc) to a 10-32 threaded screw hole in the METAL box the device is mounted in. Technically, most switches and receptacles have a tab on one of the mounting screw positions that creates a UL approved bond between the box and the device when it is installed, thus bonding the device to the box. but many inspectors insist on the ground jumpers.

Charles

 

[Kevin C]

So after a couple of attempts to put something into one of the contact openings, the child attempts to insert something into both of the contact openings at the same ... then aren't we back to the original problem that the tamper resistant outlets were created to stop?

I don't think its that easy to do.... I'm going to head out top the shop and try it with a couple of nails.

I think it still reduces the risk although its if GFI's are now mandatory its seems to be overkill.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

I feel compelled to call BS on this "nanny state" ****. The code writing is driven by the supply industry that wants you to buy as much hardware as possible. Blaming the gubmint is just lazily fashionable. If actual electricians still wrote the code it would only be a couple short chapters.

Well its up to how your local jurisdiction wants to inpertrate(spell check!)and enforce the codes,so yeah I lay a lot of it on inspectors who couldnt make it in the trades so they make up for it by making the rest of us miserable in many cases!
Last time I looked there were lots of people on the boards that come up with this stuff,not just companies selling it.
Youve got insurance companies in there,contractors trying to push stuff that they make money on.
Labor wants more work so they push for stuff.........
Then on top of that everytime You turn around youve got the fed goverment mandating stuff on us contractors also,have you ever had to do with the epa on a job related issue?
Ive been in business since 1996 as a plumbing/electrical/hvac contractor,Ive seen this go as a enjoyable trade to nothing but more hoops to jump through everytime some idiot with no experiance other than sitting behind a desk or on some board decides it he needs to act like hes doing something so lets just throw more stuff in there.