Need a Chainsaw Grinder

[Matt018]

I am looking to pickup an electric chain sharpener for my own saws, and also to offer chain sharpening for my business aswell. I looked at a few models online. Ive used and Oregon sharpener at a shop i used to work at and it worked fine, But I was wondering if i could get away with anything cheaper.

I have a few models picked out, But would like to see what any of you guys have experience with, Id like to keep this at about 100 or under if possible.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000N4L2LO/?tag=atomicindus08-20


http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001HK1ZXI/?tag=atomicindus08-20


http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200327449_200327449

I could be swayed to drop the coin on the Oregon if its really all that and a bag of chips, but it would take me a while to make my money back on it if I only charge 10 bucks a sharpening. If I could use a lesser model and have it work just the same i would prefer that.

 

[metaleltr]

Lets start off by saying i'm not a Harbor Freight fanboy. My grandpa bought the HF chainsaw grinder-if it's on sale he will buy it-I used it twice and it sharpen the chains great, low vibration and super quiet. For an occasional user who only needs to sharpen chain once in a great while it works great.

 

[Matt018]

Lets start off by saying i'm not a Harbor Freight fanboy. My grandpa bought the HF chainsaw grinder-if it's on sale he will buy it-I used it twice and it sharpen the chains great, low vibration and super quiet. For an occasional user who only needs to sharpen chain once in a great while it works great.

Ill be needing to use this much more than "infrequently"

 

[bobcatdan]

I posted the same question last year and the overall response was buy a good one.

 

[woody 73]

I think that Oregon has been in the business a long time, I bet they got it right by now.

 

[bob15]

Buy an Efco, Oregon (made by efco) or a Silvey. Spend the extra money and get the Oregon 510A. I've seen the around $240 (google shopping search). The 510A is night day and better machine than the Oregon you listed. Bigger wheels, slower turning motor, more adjustments. The smaller Oregon is alright, but it's just not the same (I've had both). The Northern listed grinder is C-clamped to the table...kinda of odd. All of mine are lag bolted to the bench. I also like the picture with all the sparks, he is taking way too much material off on a single pass. Skip the Buffalo.....

The Efco/Oregon are made in Italy. The Silvey is US made but very expensive. The others are china junk. I presently have the Oregon 510A, an older reversible motor Efco (same size as the 510) and a Silvey 300.

Hope this helps.....bob

 

[yost69]

I have the northern one. It is bolted to the bench. I think the c-clamp is just temporary for the pic.

I wouldn't recommend it for everyday use. Mine is about 2 years old and it is a pain in the *** to adjust the tooth angle now.

 

[Matt018]

So the Northern one doesnt last?

 

[GeorgiaHybrid]

Had a Northern, wore it out. Bought an Oregon, didn't like it too much and sold it. Bought a Stihl and have never looked back as it will be the last one you will ever need. It's not cheap but when amortized over 20 years or so, it's not that expensive.

 

[RedFordTruck]

I use an Oregon and its great. Made in Italy IIRC, and very high quality.

 

[justanengineer]

IMO, power chain sharpeners are for 1. the lazy and 2. the incompetent, and they seriously shorten the life of even good chain. Even after a long day of cutting, assuming you spent the $10 for a quality chain (big Stihl fan here) and keep your bar and saw in good shape, 20 mins should be all thats necessary to touch up a dull chain with a hand file. Considering how cheap chain is, you will also quickly realize why many pro shops do not even offer sharpening as an option, and why you never see woodsmen using them. Something that I used to see quite often repairing saws in the family mill (est 1956) was slightly twisted, slightly bent, and worn bars. Make sure every few hours to put a precision square across the bar and see how its wearing side to side along with a straight edge check front to back and make sure you keep the lube tank full. A worn bar can be reground by hand with a simple fixture on a larger bench grinder. To me, a well kept saw is important from a safety standpoint. If you own a saw, a few professional seminars are well worth the effort as most owners and lawn care guys/shops really dont understand how to use them nor how to maintain them. Just my $0.02

 

[signcrafter]

I also looked into this not that long ago, think the HF one was on sale for dirt cheap and I thought about picking one up. Everything I read said don't buy one unless you buy a good one, ie expensive one. If you are planning on doing this as a business or side business then I would **** it up and buy a good one and hopefully you will do enough chains to make the money back plus some.

For me personally I have about a dozen chains for my saw so I can keep cutting and then sharpen them when I have the time.

 

[Matt018]

IMO, power chain sharpeners are for 1. the lazy and 2. the incompetent, and they seriously shorten the life of even good chain. Even after a long day of cutting, assuming you spent the $10 for a quality chain (big Stihl fan here) and keep your bar and saw in good shape, 20 mins should be all thats necessary to touch up a dull chain with a hand file. Considering how cheap chain is, you will also quickly realize why many pro shops do not even offer sharpening as an option, and why you never see woodsmen using them. Something that I used to see quite often repairing saws in the family mill (est 1956) was slightly twisted, slightly bent, and worn bars. Make sure every few hours to put a precision square across the bar and see how its wearing side to side along with a straight edge check front to back and make sure you keep the lube tank full. A worn bar can be reground by hand with a simple fixture on a larger bench grinder. To me, a well kept saw is important from a safety standpoint. If you own a saw, a few professional seminars are well worth the effort as most owners and lawn care guys/shops really dont understand how to use them nor how to maintain them. Just my $0.02

Im not looking to sharpen chains professionally with a hand file, If im charging money im using a grinder and im getting it done right. They only take to much if you dont know how to set one up, Ive used one before and spent many days on the machine, sharpening a fleet of saws for a tree company and other customers. Ive ran saws many a days for this same tree company so i appreciate your opinions but i know what im doing.

 

[GeorgiaHybrid]

IMO, power chain sharpeners are for 1. the lazy and 2. the incompetent, and they seriously shorten the life of even good chain. Even after a long day of cutting, assuming you spent the $10 for a quality chain (big Stihl fan here) and keep your bar and saw in good shape, 20 mins should be all thats necessary to touch up a dull chain with a hand file. Considering how cheap chain is, you will also quickly realize why many pro shops do not even offer sharpening as an option, and why you never see woodsmen using them. Something that I used to see quite often repairing saws in the family mill (est 1956) was slightly twisted, slightly bent, and worn bars. Make sure every few hours to put a precision square across the bar and see how its wearing side to side along with a straight edge check front to back and make sure you keep the lube tank full. A worn bar can be reground by hand with a simple fixture on a larger bench grinder. To me, a well kept saw is important from a safety standpoint. If you own a saw, a few professional seminars are well worth the effort as most owners and lawn care guys/shops really dont understand how to use them nor how to maintain them. Just my $0.02

I'm calling BS on this one... I can't even buy Stihl chain in 100 foot bulk lengths that I can make a chain out of it for $10. Sorry but my bars are longer than 10 inches. As for the other comments, if you can sharpen the chains on my 25" or 32" bars in 20 minutes, you are better than anyone else I've ever seen or heard of.

As long as you set up you sharpener correctly and don't overheat the chain or take too much off a link, they are just as sharp as a factory grind. I have sharpened a lot of chain the past 18 months for guys where we have to plunge cut into storm debris and you WILL be sharpening chain or spending a good portion of your income on buying new chain.

 

[Matt018]

I'm calling BS on this one... I can't even buy Stihl chain in 100 foot bulk lengths that I can make a chain out of it for $10. Sorry but my bars are longer than 10 inches. As for the other comments, if you can sharpen the chains on my 25" or 32" bars in 20 minutes, you are better than anyone else I've ever seen or heard of.

As long as you set up you sharpener correctly and don't overheat the chain or take too much off a link, they are just as sharp as a factory grind. I have sharpened a lot of chain the past 18 months for guys where we have to plunge cut into storm debris and you WILL be sharpening chain or spending a good portion of your income on buying new chain.

Exactly, Chains for 14'' saws are 20 bucks. Plus if you set it correctly, and you just buzz the tip of each tooth with the wheel it works fine.

 

[Andybull]

I bought the Oregon made in Italy and like it. Don't take too much at a time or you will anneal the steel.

 

[justanengineer]

Im not looking to sharpen chains professionally with a hand file, If im charging money im using a grinder and im getting it done right. They only take to much if you dont know how to set one up,

Many professionals would argue that even setup properly they take too much, which is why Stihl recommends against using them in favor of a hand file. Just my $0.02, but having grown up in a family logging business Ive NEVER seen a pro woodsman use a power sharpener.

Since youre considering this as a supplement to your business tho I need to ask as Im curious, why would a customer want to pay for his chain to be sharpened, and how much can you realistically charge? The last time I bought a top end Stihl chain (1 year ago now) it cost me a few cents over $8. Even assuming a homeowner gets screwed hard on a chain at $15 or maybe $20, it doesnt seem like you could get much over $5 for a sharpening. I know Im cheap, but maybe Im not as cheap as some?

 

[jpickar]

Stay away from anything that has plastic on it! An ALL metal one is the way to go. Why? Plastic flexes too much. I have used several different ones and that is the conclusion I came to.

I have one that is fairly good but it has plastic for some of the parts. I live with it as I use it for my own chainsaws. I cut 8 cords a year to burn for heat and lots of deadfall and slash for the burn pile. If you don't hand sharpen your own chains and understand how they need to be filed and grinder will only work IF everything is setup right to begin with.

John

 

[cheechi]

Ive NEVER seen a pro woodsman use a power sharpener.

Kind of surprises me how far into this thread we are before this was mentioned.

I have the hf one that i set up and played with, mostly just to see if i could use it with more than just chainsaw chain & general play-with-it usage. I also have the Dremel attachment that I use most of the time, and have played with the on-blade sharpener as well. All of them have made my chain cut better though I have a file set on the way for whatever I wind up having to cut down this winter. I'm far from a pro logger but everyone I talk to here says 'why not just hand file it takes 5 minutes'. The local Husq & Stihl repair guys will sharpen chain for you but when I asked about it both of them would rather sell me the file than sharpen my chain for a higher price.

 

[retrobuilder]

lots of good sharpener info on the arboristsite.com forum. Tools too.

 

[Provincial]

Just my $0.02, but having grown up in a family logging business Ive NEVER seen a pro woodsman use a power sharpener.

Out here in Oregon where we have Real trees, almost every faller (the guy who cuts the tree down, cuts off the limbs, and bucks it to length for yarding to the landing - not the ones that handle it later) that intends to stay in the business for any length of time has his own electric chain grinder. They also use chisel chain, which has a sharp angle to the gullet and a square angle to the top of the tooth, not the rounded version that most homeowners are familiar with. The grinders for chisel teeth are much different than the ones for the rounded teeth. Chisel chains use less power to cut than the rounded profile chains, and are preferred in the woods here.

Chain grinders get a bad name from people who don't know how to set them up and operate them. That includes many (perhaps most) people that do it professionally. A properly ground chain cuts so fast it is amazing.

Most professional loggers here dress their chain with a file several times each day. Chasers on the landing who buck dirty logs dress their chains with a file every time they refuel the saw. After several filings, it is necessary to use the grinder to ensure that the teeth are uniform (identical to each other) and to dress the depth gauges for proper cutting depth. This ensures the maximum performance of the chain and saw.

 

[justanengineer]

Out here in Oregon where we have Real trees

Define "real" trees. Ive been to the west coast many times and seen quite a few redwoods but my understanding is that those arent cut too much anymore. Short of that, whats so big out there? Out east we have quite a few good sized oak and soft pines that will legally put a truck oversized on width with a single stick thanks to our big lumber boom being much earlier than yours a century ago. My earliest recollection of starting the "reasons gpa's crazy" list as a child was seeing him quarter a log with dynamite so it would fit the old mill carriage, 6' or 8' IIRC, but Im no sawyer. Next time Im in my hometown I will take a pic of our local "drive thru" pine thats quite a bit bigger around (tho much shorter) than the redwood I drove thru in "Valley o Giants" (name?) Cali a few years ago.

Like Ive said, I grew up in it and never saw a pro use a sharpener. Our crew always did their own saws by hand and whenever necessary they toss the chain out as a consumable. Most I know wont sharpen mid-day or even touch up as a saw swap is easier. They might do it elsewhere, but Ive attended the Northeast loggers/woodsmen's field days show every summer (biggest in the country IIRC), and Ive never heard of it being done. I have heard many joke about it tho, and Im sure we use similar grinds of chisel chain as youre right, the saw just falls through the wood. Out of curiosity, how many resharps do you get from a grinder? Having never used one, Ive heard you can only get a few.

 

[Provincial]

The number of re-sharpenings depends on the condition of the teeth. If you hit a rock, then you lose a lot of meat off the teeth. Since every tooth needs to be the same, a nick on one tooth reduces them all by that amount. Most hand filers don't even up the teeth to match one or two damaged teeth, which makes the chain cut more slowly, but reduces the expense of replacing chains.

If I don't hit something, I can get 10 or 15 grinds on a chain. I'd rather get fewer grinds and replace the chain more often than cut slower.

 

[jpickar]

There are merits to useing a grinder and hand files for sharpening chains.

When a chain is in bad shape a grinder is able to get every tooth back to the same length easily. It is fast and easy IF you know how to set the grinder up.

A good man with a saw and who knows the specifics of how a chain is suppose to be sharpened and who can use files and gauges to make the chain perfect produces a superb chain.

A plastic frame chain sharpener flexes and cause way to many inconsistentcies in the chain. I think if a guy is just an occasional user of a chain saw he will be better suited to buy a good quality grinder. Putting out a poorly sharpened by using a cheap grinder will hurt your business reputation.

Just my two cents worth.

John

 

[RCStocker]

All the cheap ones seem to have a lot of play in them. They have cheap motors and really don't hold up very well.
There are good ones but they cost $150 and up. I have cut a few hundred cords of wood in my day. Many with a 2 man cross cut saw. I broke down years ago and got a good grinder. 99 percent of the time I use a file inserted in a handle. It takes a little longer but it works well.

 

[camarotoolman]

I had a Foley Bellsaw one,it was good.

 

[Matt018]

Many professionals would argue that even setup properly they take too much, which is why Stihl recommends against using them in favor of a hand file. Just my $0.02, but having grown up in a family logging business Ive NEVER seen a pro woodsman use a power sharpener.

Since youre considering this as a supplement to your business tho I need to ask as Im curious, why would a customer want to pay for his chain to be sharpened, and how much can you realistically charge? The last time I bought a top end Stihl chain (1 year ago now) it cost me a few cents over $8. Even assuming a homeowner gets screwed hard on a chain at $15 or maybe $20, it doesnt seem like you could get much over $5 for a sharpening. I know Im cheap, but maybe Im not as cheap as some?

Why wouldnt a customer Pay, Most homeowners dont know how, Most are not mechanically inclined. 10$ for a chain sharpening is pretty standard practice around here.

 

[Matt018]

Also this is not a debate weather this is the right tool or not, I know what i need and i know how to use it, Im just looking for recommendations for a decent on. That said, the statements about the all plastic ones make sense. From the looks of it the Northern one appears to be mostly metal construction and is still at a price i would pay.

 

[bobcatdan]

If you are cutting everyday and touching the chains up everynight with a file, it is pretty quick to do, but for the avarage guy, a sharpener is so much easier and quicker. I'm bad in the sense I run chains to where I notice they are getting dull and switch chains. I have four chains. Then when I'm board, I sharpen them when I have two or three to do.

 

[signcrafter]

Why wouldnt a customer Pay, Most homeowners dont know how, Most are not mechanically inclined. 10$ for a chain sharpening is pretty standard practice around here.

Personally I hate paying others to do work I can do with a little learning and a 10 dollar file. I learned to sharpen my chains myself and after you learn it's actually easy and personally I don't see why any home owner would pay someone else to do, but that's just my way of thinking and I understand others have more money than me and are happy to pay someone to do work they could do themselves. Also when you say "most are not mechanically inclined" enough to sharpen a chain but they are mechanically inclined enough to run a chainsaw something doesn't add up there! If you can run a chainsaw you should be able to file a chain!

That being said if it's common practice for everyone around you to take their chains to someone to be sharpened and pay 10 bucks a pop then why not spend the money to buy a quality machine? If you can make 10 bucks a chain and can average 10 chains a month, pretty easy I would think if it's standard practice to take chains in to be sharpened, then in a short few months your 2-400 dollar sharpener is paid for and will last forever.

If you are cutting everyday and touching the chains up everynight with a file, it is pretty quick to do, but for the avarage guy, a sharpener is so much easier and quicker. I'm bad in the sense I run chains to where I notice they are getting dull and switch chains. I have four chains. Then when I'm board, I sharpen them when I have two or three to do.

I'm the same way. I run my chains until I notice they are dull and then switch and then sharpen a bunch at a time.

 

[shovelhead91701]

I use the Oregon 511ax right now in the shop but haveused the Efco grinders for years. Anyone saying that a grinder will ruin a chain is flat out wrong. Next time you buy a new quality chain like a Stihl chain take a good look at the factory tooth. It was polished with a grinder before packaging. The problem with grinding a chain comes in when someone doesn't use one properly and burns the chain trying to remove too much material on one pass. I train my techs personally on chain sharpening before turning them loose on customers units to ensure that they know how to properly sharpen. I can promise you that if you brought a chain to me I could grind it, index the depth guages properly and you would think that you had a new chain again, even if you had brought it to me after trying to cut concrete. That being said, chain sharpening for me is a wash as a profit center because the cost of labor plus consumables eats up the $7.00 that we charge to sharpen.
Also when shopping a grinder you really must think about the availability of the grinding rocks to fit the machine and the cost/ longevity of the rocks.

 

[jpickar]

I use the Oregon 511ax right now in the shop but haveused the Efco grinders for years. Anyone saying that a grinder will ruin a chain is flat out wrong. Next time you buy a new quality chain like a Stihl chain take a good look at the factory tooth. It was polished with a grinder before packaging. The problem with grinding a chain comes in when someone doesn't use one properly and burns the chain trying to remove too much material on one pass. I train my techs personally on chain sharpening before turning them loose on customers units to ensure that they know how to properly sharpen. I can promise you that if you brought a chain to me I could grind it, index the depth guages properly and you would think that you had a new chain again, even if you had brought it to me after trying to cut concrete. That being said, chain sharpening for me is a wash as a profit center because the cost of labor plus consumables eats up the $7.00 that we charge to sharpen.
Also when shopping a grinder you really must think about the availability of the grinding rocks to fit the machine and the cost/ longevity of the rocks.

I think this is the answer the OP was looking for!

John

 

[Ft.ValloniaStreaker]

First of all "pros" are timber cutters, and there's a lot less cutting in timber than there is firewood. Guys like me that 30-40 rick a year are cutting firewood to keep warm and sell a few loads to offset the cost. I have the (God forbid) HF $29.00 with coupon model, after 3 years it still does a good job. That being said you have to pay attention to what your doing just like anything else. But it does a pretty good job, and I'm not out a bunch of money. Along those lines I need to mention that I use what we call a "skip chain" the cut is rough but only half the teeth to sharpen.....I'll try to get a pic up of it later.

 

[theoldwizard1]

I had a Foley Bellsaw one,it was good.

Surprised it took so long for someone to mention Belsaw. I always thought it was the standard.

 

[theoldwizard1]

To the OP, go with what you know !

To the average homeowner, buy 2 or 3 spares and rotate them. When you mount your last sharp one, take them to a pro for sharpening.

 

[Milton Shaw]

As a teenager, I worked in a mower repair shop. We filed our rental saw chains to get the most usage out of them. We used a grinder on customer chains since we would sell them a chair after 5 or so times sharpened. This was back in the dark ages (early 60's) and before automatic chain oilers that are on all chain saws now. We saw a lot of burned up chains from people too lazy to thumb the oiler. Mine I use a hand grinder and mounted grinding stone to sharpen, but don't cut a lot any more as it's just yard clean up now.

 

[bob15]

Also this is not a debate weather this is the right tool or not, I know what i need and i know how to use it, Im just looking for recommendations for a decent on. That said, the statements about the all plastic ones make sense. From the looks of it the Northern one appears to be mostly metal construction and is still at a price i would pay.

Like I said earlier, skip this Northern and the small Oregon and buy the larger Oregon 510A or 511. The motor is larger, will last longer and when and if you grind .404 chain, it grinds it better and easier than the smaller Oregon/Efco/Northern and it is more accurate with the angle adjustments.

What happens if something breaks on the china/Northern? Good luck on parts. Oregon/Efco, parts can be gotten quiet easily.

There is a 510A grinder on ebay for $190. Spend the extra and you won't be disappointed.

Charge $5 a chain and people will come for sharping.

bob