Need a lead on engineering geometry training

[V-10 Killer]

I have a question for some of the BSME's out there. God it's hard to explain. I'd like to find some type of informal training on how to design/model how parts of something interact geometrically with other parts. I think the easiest way would be, for example, modeling how make a trapezoid fit into a specific 2 shapes based on side length. Or on the higher end, the mechanics of a lazy boy chair. The closest thing I found in my searches so far was:
Geometric Dimensioning and Tolerancing
I have around 3 years of college training in BSME, but never finished
so I never got to fun stuff like this.

Any tips would be great

 

[Quiksilver]

Not sure what your application is, but try a google search for 4-bar mechanism. That may point you in the right direction.

EDIT:

 

[theoldwizard1]

Would a 3d CAD, like Sketchup, do what you want ?

 

[zkling]

Basic geometry goes a very long way. Beyond that it sounds like what you are looking for is a crash course in applied kinematics and dynamics. Which basically, is geometry, but with motion. Where you can develop mechanism specific equations of motion to determine the response of a system. I have a book called "Mechines and Mechanisms, applied kinematic analysis" by MYSZKA. Is is pretty good. I didn't buy it, but was given it by someone I know.

The main book we used in school (BSME) was Beer and Johnston's "Vector mechanics for engineers statics and dynamics". NOT a book that you can sit down and read, but it is kind of a standard in the mechanical engineering curriculum.

If there were three books that one could use to "learn design"

1.) Vector mechanics for engineers by Beer and Johnston
2.) Mechanics of materials by Beer and Johnston
3.) Mechanical engineering design by Shigley (another standard in BSME school)

HOWEVER this is not something you are going to pick up over night.

 

[kerryt1]

I have a question for some of the BSME's out there. God it's hard to explain. I'd like to find some type of informal training on how to design/model how parts of something interact geometrically with other parts. I think the easiest way would be, for example, modeling how make a trapezoid fit into a specific 2 shapes based on side length. Or on the higher end, the mechanics of a lazy boy chair. The closest thing I found in my searches so far was:
Geometric Dimensioning and Tolerancing
I have around 3 years of college training in BSME, but never finished
so I never got to fun stuff like this.

Any tips would be great

Not one hundred percent sure what you're asking... but 3 dimensional modeling (CAD, etc.) and GD&T are related but not the same subject. Are you looking for modeling / drafting training, or more solid mechanics type stuff? Maybe if you explain what your goal is?

Mechanical engineering design by Shigley

Sitting on the shelf in my office, gives me bad memories when I see it.

 

[V-10 Killer]

It's just tough to explain. I'm sure once i have the right terminology for for it, it'll be crystal clear lol.
I remember taking Statics and Dynamics in college. Used these books:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/0131411675/?tag=atomicindus08-20
http://www.amazon.com/dp/0131416782/?tag=atomicindus08-20

The classes were a lot of fun for me, but seemed to focus more on the Force/Inertia/Impulse applied at different points in items. Good for determining center of mass, etc... Not as much of the geometric modeling.

I think anything that someone would need to design a retractable geodesic dome or lazy-boy frame. Those examples are way beyond what I would do, but just to give working examples. It doesn't have to be 3d, can be reading material.

 

[purplezr2]

2.) Mechanics of materials by Beer and Johnston
3.) Mechanical engineering design by Shigley (another standard in BSME school)

I remember taking Statics and Dynamics in college. Used these books:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/0131411675/?tag=atomicindus08-20
http://www.amazon.com/dp/0131416782/?tag=atomicindus08-20

.

I believe we used version of these books when I was in school. The authors names seem famaliar.

 

[zkling]

I guess I am not sure what you are looking for. Could you give a specific example?

There really is no single book that will allow you to design everything. I like to think of engineering school as building a tool box. You get exposure and basic knowledge of how to use a variety of different "tools" in the profession. Tools in this case being fluids, mechanics, physics, math, electricity, thermo evil, kinematics and so on and so forth.

Just like becoming an auto mechanic. An average non mechanic type may look at a pro's box and say "you can' possibly need all of those tools". When in reality all of those tools do have a specific purpose.

Design is a collection of knowledge or "tools" and how to apply them. It really sounds like what you are looking for is a topic in kinematics.

I too have that Hibbeler book (Engineering Mechanics Dynamics 8th edition). The end chapters are good for kinematics. I think the Beer & Johnston books are better, but the Hibbeler will get the point across.

 

[Quiksilver]

zkling- excellent description for the study of engineering.

V10 Killer-Kinematics definitely sounds like the course of study you are looking for. The 4-bar system that I mentioned before is one of the more basic concepts of kinematics, with the focus of study being on the movement of the objects without consideration to the forces being applied, or the reason for the forces. The main focus is on the position of objects with respect to other objects.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinematics

 

[Boiler]

Geometric dimensioning and tolerancing has nothing to do with what you're asking from what I can tell.

 

[V-10 Killer]

Thanks guys. I'll do a little research on Kinematics. I'm always up for some more learning.

 

[isaac338]

Thanks guys. I'll do a little research on Kinematics. I'm always up for some more learning.

You need a book on machinery design - the basic 4-bar mechanism is what you're looking for, as it's essentially the basis of any machine.

http://www.amazon.ca/dp/0072864478/?tag=atomicindus04-20

 

[Mecrez]

You need Kinematics, if you are investing in a book, there is also some discussion of Kinematics in the Machinery's handbook. Many people look past the first few chapters and there is often very good information in there.

On another note, if you are working with engineering drawings, it is very helpful to understand GD&T. Look up ASME Y14.5M-2009 (or equivalent ISO standards) for more info.

 

[retrobuilder]

Search for ""descriptive geometry" methods, a preCAD method. Deals with intersecting cones, cylinders, lines, true length, true angles..etc. Showing my age on this! I can email you a chapter of scanned diagrams if you PM a message.

 

[budss396]

look for simplified engineering for architects and builder by parker and ambrose
that will get you into the statics and strengths of materials calculations.
also look up books on machine design and jig and fixture design

 

[budss396]

http://www.craftsmanspace.com/free-books/machine-design-books.html

the above link will take you to a bunch of free downloadable books

 

[fivespdcat]

I'm actually amused about the kinematics. That class had to be one of the most difficult I took in college, definitely not something that could be picked up in a few hours on the side. Our KDME class concentrated on forces, acceleration, etc of multiple rotating bodies. I don't think anyone in our class got over a 65% for the semester.

 

[V-10 Killer]

For now, this is just for me, not for a paying job. I'm not too worried about forces, torque, momentum, or that facet of it yet (maybe eventually, but not yet). I just want to start on some entry level stuff and work my way into the movement geometry of it, and how to design it to fit dimensional parameters. Thanks for everyones input on it, you were a big help

 

[kmacht]

See if you can get your hands on the books
507 Mechanical Movements

and

The Engineer'S Sketch-Book of Mechanical Movements, Devices, Appliances, Contrivances and Details

Keith

 

[olds70supreme]

When I was in school (ME) the class for this was Design and Manufacturing. The text used was:

http://www.pearsonelt.ch/1471/9780130408723/Mechanism-Design-Analysis-and-Synthesis.aspx

This sounds exactly like what you are looking for.

 

[Doxhog]

"Theory of Machines and Mechanisms" Joseph E Shigley & John J Uicker, Jr. Sitting on my book shelf at work.

 

[Kevin54]

Or just study Rube Goldberg!!!