Need a Little Help Removing Old Vise Jaws

[sometoyotaguy]

I'm trying to get the screws out of the old vise jaws. I managed to get them to turn a little, but only about half a turn or so. Any suggestions for getting them out? Should I just drill them out, and assume that they are somehow bent?

 

[mitusa]

If they wll turn a 1/2 turn, they should come out. Maybe let them soak with WD-40 or try heating them, let cool, repeat two or three times.

What brand of vise is it....I bet someone on here knows exactly what the problem is.

 

[MrMark]

Use a hand impact driver. Perfect tool for this. A little at a time.

 

[davesnothere]

Impact driver x2

 

[autopts]

Those don't look like a hard challenge. What you need is another vise so that you can hold each side. Take the dynamic side off and put it tightly in a vise with the jaw facing up. Buy ($9.95) or use a hand held impact driver and a heavy hammer. Mark the bottom of the driver so you know its going the right way. Repeat the procedure on the other jaw.

 

[Bad Jackson]

"What you need is another vise..."

HAHA!!!

I love it!

Don't we ALL!!!!!

Munsk.

 

[1steve]

I take it your replacing jaws so i would grind heads off get jaws out of the way and vise grip them out.

 

[Outlawmws]

Hammer impact, PB blaster and some heat. if they still are struggling, try soaking them overnight in an electrolysis tank...

 

[mrbreezeet1]

heat
PB blaster and some heat

 

[ZRX61]

Yet another vote for a hand/hammer impact, won't take but a moment

 

[Toymeister]

Screw knocker, not a hand impact.

http://www.skygeek.com/aircraft-tool-supply-at540a-kit-screw-bolt-remover-kit-10-in.html

They are designed for air riveters BUT they will work with an air hammer IF the presure is turned way down, 30 psi or less

 

[sometoyotaguy]

I take it your replacing jaws so i would grind heads off get jaws out of the way and vise grip them out.

I want to get them off before I sandblast the rest of it. I haven't seen replacement jaws cheap enough to be able to afford it quite yet.

I'd like to try to clean up the checkering a bit with a file, but maybe I should just leave them alone until I find a replacement set of jaws. They are U shaped.

It's the same vise from my other thread.

 

[Outlawmws]

I want to get them off before I sandblast the rest of it. I haven't seen replacement jaws cheap enough to be able to afford it quite yet.

I'd like to try to clean up the checkering a bit with a file, but maybe I should just leave them alone until I find a replacement set of jaws. They are U shaped.

It's the same vise from my other thread.

Again, I prefer electrolysis as I don't like the patina left by blasting, especially on the surfaces that are supposed to be machined. Besides, it's a LOT less messy...

 

[bigcaddy]

If you haven't gotten the inserts off already, i agree with penetrating oil/lube with an impact driver and possibly some heat to get the metal to expand.

I just used this exact method in my garage not even 15 minutes ago to remove some inserts from a Craftsman vise that were stuck good.

Autopts is correct as well, you are gonna need another vise or at least one or more big strong friends to hold that thing down while you take the hammer to it.

Good luck and lets see it when its done

 

[lilredex]

Put the vise back together and use bits from an impact driver, except install the bit and close the vise jaws down on it, so the bit will just turn in place. Use a wrench on the bit and then back off the jaws as the screw comes out. This keeps the bit in place and forces out the screw. Works every time.

 

[sometoyotaguy]

Thanks for the suggestions guys. One more question. Should I even be taking them off if I'm just sandblasting, and not replacing the jaws? I thought it might make the cleanup easier.

 

[PCO6]

I posted this a few days ago in another thread on cleaning up vices. I dip mine in B&G Rust Remover. For one in the condition that the OP posted it should only take a few hours to remove the rust and free up all of the fasteners, spindle, etc. It should be clean when it goes into the dip tank (no dirt, grease, etc.) and it will only need to be rinsed off with water when it comes out. It will not remove paint.

Here's a Record No.6 that I did recently ...

 

[83glt]

Were you ever successful getting the jaw screws out? Interestingly, I am having the same struggle with another Red Seal vise - No. 64. I've gotten the screws/jaw off the static jaw after great effort, but the dynamic jaw screws are really stuck. I've let it soak in the electrolysis tank, applied heat and plenty of Kroil and tried the impact driver. I've broken them loose and they each will make a 1/4 turn, but then they totally jam. With all the Kroil I've used I'm sure it's not corrosion but damaged threads. The static side screws had pretty mangled threads so I assume that the dynamic jaw screws are even worse for whatever reason.


Any ideas on where I go from here? Drilling them out is a last resort I'd like to avoid.

 

[Fretters]

Any ideas on where I go from here? Drilling them out is a last resort I'd like to avoid.

You only need to drill out the head, not the whole screw. You can get the stubs out with molegrips once you've got the inserts off. Drill the heads central with a drill bit same size or ever so slightly larger than the screw O.D. Once you get down to the depth of the screw shank, just tap off the remainder of the head if it doesn't literally drop off.

 

[drivesitfar]

83: in case you don't know what "mole" grips are they are vise grips in the US translation of Fretter's English. i think Fretters actually showed a couple pictures of what he did with one of his vises. maybe Fretters can post those pictures over on the Vise Repair 101 thread so they won't get lost here because i'm sure you are not the first to have this problem or the last.

or maybe he already did post them over there if you check that thread because it wasn't too long ago i saw him post that.

once the heads of the screws are off the jaws are free to be removed and then grab them with vise grips to try and unscrew them or you might have to get the drill out to remove them. there are a few ways to remove a bad screw so ask for help in the 101 thread if you want other suggestions than the ones you know.

good luck

 

[Fretters]

These are the photo's DIF. If you want you can plonk them in the 101 thread, or I'll pop them in there later. These are for the leadscrew retaining collar, but the principle is the same for the insert screws, and for countersunk or dome head screws. One screw centre punched and pilot drilled, and one screw with the head drilled off.

The remaining stubs once the piece is off.

There's usually plenty of metal left to grab with the grips. That's the same method I used for getting all four jaw insert screws out of this vice.

 

[drivesitfar]

Fretters: thanks for that awesome post. if i knew how to cut and paste and quote you in your Old English i would gladly put in the Vise Repair 101 thread. if you can that would be great and i'm sure this might help 83 if he has to go this route.

83: I've seen some of the pros take out screws with an impact screwdriver, but they tend to mess up the screws too especially if you have a stubborn one. at least the impact driver has a chance of saving the original screws for replacing after you finish restoring your vise.

 

[jaker10]

Anyone ever tried wicking wax ? I have used it at work and it seems to work 80% of the time. I've been told candle wax will work also. Heat up the screw you cant get out and let the wax melt on it, let it cool and remove the screw. The wax gets sucked in like soldering a copper pipe and lubs the screw for removal. Hope this helps.

 

[Tig Master]

Weld a nut on them quench it with a candle as it is cooling off and they will come straight out when they are cool.I have done dozens like this and it has never let me down.

T

 

[drivesitfar]

just curious if you heat up these screws with say a plumbing torch and then touch a candle to them would the candle wax wick inside the screw threads? once the candle wax is inside i'm guessing all you need to do is screw out the screws?

the reason i'm asking is because i'm not a welder, but I've soldered a few copper pipes in the past.

 

[lilredex]

Heating up everything is not going to do much. You need to heat up only the screw, red hot, to break the bond between the jaw and the screw.

 

[Carla]

Weld a nut on them quench it with a candle as it is cooling off and they will come straight out when they are cool.I have done dozens like this and it has never let me down.
T

Concur, generally.....but.....

I've used this method dozens of times, argon-welding a washer to a c-sunk or broken screw, then welding a nut to the washer.....and, yes, it works every time.

There is a 'catch', tho, on this job. The generality of vise jaw screws use a 'special' head configuration, with a 'steeper' angle than standard flat-head screws.

If its at all possible, its desirable to save, de-burr, and re-use the original screws. Making new ones to suit the vise jaws is a simple bit of turning and slotting, but many mechanics don't do turning and milling, so they would be 'motivated' to salvage the original parts.

As a generality, vise jaw screws, if they will move even a little, will eventually work loose, with a good penetrating-oil and some gentle heat.

One must look carefully for any little burrs or scars in the jaws which may foul the screw heads, and carefully grind out any that may be found, using a teeny-tiny 'mounted point' in a die-grinder, or 'Dremel'.

cheers

Carla

 

[83glt]

Thanks everyone. I don't know, these screws are pretty stuck. I have to post a photo of the threads on the ones I got out. I don't think these are re-usable. Also, these are flatheads, and they were worn down and scarred so bad that I had to dremel the slot in order to even get a screwdriver on them. I think I'm going to continue with the penetrant and heat and hope something gives. Maybe I'll try the wax, and if that doesn't work it's out with the "mole grips".

 

[Fretters]

There is a 'catch', tho, on this job. The generality of vise jaw screws use a 'special' head configuration, with a 'steeper' angle than standard flat-head screws.

The English vices generally use the standard angle, (or at least all of the ones I've come across so far), though that Woden which one of the Canadian chaps posted the other day had the American style heads, so not sure what the story is on that one. Not sure what the European vices are like in that respect.

 

[jaker10]

Concur, generally.....but.....

I've used this method dozens of times, argon-welding a washer to a c-sunk or broken screw, then welding a nut to the washer.....and, yes, it works every time.

There is a 'catch', tho, on this job. The generality of vise jaw screws use a 'special' head configuration, with a 'steeper' angle than standard flat-head screws.

If its at all possible, its desirable to save, de-burr, and re-use the original screws. Making new ones to suit the vise jaws is a simple bit of turning and slotting, but many mechanics don't do turning and milling, so they would be 'motivated' to salvage the original parts.

As a generality, vise jaw screws, if they will move even a little, will eventually work loose, with a good penetrating-oil and some gentle heat.

One must look carefully for any little burrs or scars in the jaws which may foul the screw heads, and carefully grind out any that may be found, using a teeny-tiny 'mounted point' in a die-grinder, or 'Dremel'.

cheers

Carla

I went to my local hardware store to get jaw screws for one of my vises and the head was to big and the angle was off. I chucked it up in my drill press, turned up the speed and used a sharp file to change the angle and get it to the dia. I needed. Not the best looking job but it worked. With the screws installed if you didn't know what I did you probably wouldn't notice.

 

[PCO6]

The English vices generally use the standard angle, (or at least all of the ones I've come across so far), though that Woden which one of the Canadian chaps posted the other day had the American style heads, so not sure what the story is on that one. Not sure what the European vices are like in that respect.

Fretters - I think the Woden vice you're referring to is my 186B/0. I've redone several Woden and Record vices. This is the only one I have seen with jaw screws where the countersink angle is as "steep" as this one. I am pretty sure that the jaws on this one are the originals.

View media item 43198

 

[83glt]

It's looking more like I'm going to have to drill them out. Now they won't turn at all. I think I must have jammed them with the impact driver. At least I have the originals from the static jaw. I hope the threads of the jaws will be ok. Just so everyone knows this is very common luck for me.

Thanks for everyone's help. I'll post back when I figure this out.

 

[Outlawmws]

PC06 and Fretters, you guys got me curious, especially since I have the jaw screws out of my Starrett vise, and its got the steep taper.

PC, My Woden is a 186-b/1 (3" jaws) Fixed base and also has the steeper angle.

From left to right, Starretl (Athol), Woden, and a std countersunk screw:

The Woden is close to as steep, but looks slightly less than the Starrett.

 

[Fretters]

Fretters - I think the Woden vice you're referring to is my 186B/0. I've redone several Woden and Record vices. This is the only one I have seen with jaw screws where the countersink angle is as "steep" as this one. I am pretty sure that the jaws on this one are the originals.

Aye, it was yours I was thinking of. Couldn't for the life of me remember exactly whom that one belonged to. This whole Woden insert screw thing gets murkier, as after reading Outlaw's post:

PC06 and Fretters, you guys got me curious, especially since I have the jaw screws out of my Starrett vise, and its got the steep taper.

PC, My Woden is a 186-b/1 (3" jaws) Fixed base and also has the steeper angle.

I then remembered that the little Woden B1 which is here doesn't have tapered head screws at all. They're cheese head screws on this one. The B3, however, had standard taper/angle heads on it.

 

[Fretters]

It's looking more like I'm going to have to drill them out. Now they won't turn at all. I think I must have jammed them with the impact driver. At least I have the originals from the static jaw. I hope the threads of the jaws will be ok. Just so everyone knows this is very common luck for me.

Don't worry about it, you'll be fine. Worst case scenario you end up drilling and tapping a size or two up, or drilling and retapping slightly deeper holes. Between rust, slightly ill-fitting inserts, (as in the holes in the insert aren't lined up perfectly with their mating holes in the cast), and damaged threads and heads, the insert screws can be anywhere from a breeze to an absolute cow to remove. I even had one vice with through cast screws fitted which had an unslotted screw head, and then they'd rusted solid on top of that. Must have been a security measure to stop people changing/nicking the inserts, but you can likely imagine what a git those were to get out. Point is, simple patience will get the job done. Personally though, I always avoid using impacts.

 

[PCO6]

PC, My Woden is a 186-b/1 (3" jaws) Fixed base and also has the steeper angle.

I then remembered that the little Woden B1 which is here doesn't have tapered head screws at all. They're cheese head screws on this one. The B3, however, had standard taper/angle heads on it.

I have a Woden No.1 and I don't remember the screws being tapered like the ones above. I'll take them out later today and post a picture for comparison.

 

[83glt]

This is the better of the two screws:



The slot has become stripped from repeated attempts. Before I started the slots were barely distinguishable. I forgot to take pictures of the damaged threads of the 2 screws I managed to get out.

 

[Outlawmws]

Yep you are probably done with trying a driver of any sort on that one.

Make sure you center punch it before trying to drill and in that case, I'd take a small flat drift punch and whack the center part of the head a couple of times to flatted the area out before trying to center punch. Essentially making a "landing field" for the center punch (otherwise it will slip off center...) The head should be plenty soft enough to do that with...

 

[PCO6]

Further to my post #36 above, the (poor quality) photo below shows the differences between the jaw screws of my Woden 186B/0 (2.5") vice on the left and my Woden No.1 (3") vice on the right. I have various Record vices, which Wodens are very similar to, and the screws are like the ones on the right.

View media item 43303

 

[Carla]

Hmmm.........an interesting 'curiosity question' appears....

Is it possible that the generality of American vise makers might have purchased 'vise jaw screws', in the various sizes needed, from some enterprising sub-contractor firm, years ago?

It would certainly appear plausible that someone might have seen that part as a 'niche market', which could keep a small screw-machine shop profitably busy, as a specialist supplier, and also contracting with a tooling firm to supply the specific angle of countersinks required.

American manufacturing history has the example of very large numbers of specialist sub-contractors, who offered an 'off-the-shelf' specialty product, more cheaply than equipment makers could tool up to make such parts themselves.

There is a reason for this question........with 'vise restoration' becoming a bit of a fad here, could enough of the 'vise restorers' take measurements to determine whether the jaw screws seem to be made to a common spec, for head size and c'sink angle, relative to thread size?

If that would seem to be the case, which, to be sure, it may or may not, it would seem possible that someone here might have, or have a 'connection' with someone who might have, spare CNC turning capability, and be able to run small lots of these screws 'for stock'.

Modern CNC turning would be so much more convenient than camming-up a B&S, or equivalent, screw machine, that it should be really fast and cheap to make these screws.....the second op of slotting could be cheaply done by any hobbyist who has a small horizontal mill, as the tooling would be simple and cheap to do, and the operation ever so simple.

(and, yes, it may well be that all the old American vise makers made their jaw screws 'in house', and they will be of different taper angles......but it 'can't hurt' to have a look, and 'check out the possibility' of a common product.)

cheers

Carla