Need a new main breaker panel, suggestions?

[Jim Johnstone]

Hi guys,

I'm looking to pick up a new 200 amp breaker panel for my house, and could use some suggestions.

What is required for specific breakers. IE is an arc-fault required for bedrooms, GFCI required for bathroom wiring?

Also, what are your thoughts on having inline surge protection?

Thanks,
Jim

 

[Norcal]

What code is your area on? With the 2008, pretty much everything that is not required to have GFCI protection, has to have arc fault protection.

The best quality residential panel is a Cutler-Hammer type CH "Classic" (not the BR garbage), other 2 choices IMO, is Siemens & Square D QO. SQ D & Siemens use a plastic interior, the C-H "Classic" is a steel interior & copper bus. If it was about 25 years ago or so, SQ D would have the edge because of their Visi-Trip window on QO breakers, but since they went cheap, IMO C-H is the best now.

Ones to avoid in no particular order:

C-H BR, SQ D Homeline, GE (GE is the new Zinsco).

 

[John in OH]

What code is your area on? With the 2008, pretty much everything that is not required to have GFCI protection, has to have arc fault protection.

The best quality residential panel is a Cutler-Hammer type CH "Classic" (not the BR garbage), other 2 choices IMO, is Siemens & Square D QO. SQ D & Siemens use a plastic interior, the C-H "Classic" is a steel interior & copper bus. If it was about 25 years ago or so, SQ D would have the edge because of their Visi-Trip window on QO breakers, but since they went cheap, IMO C-H is the best now.

Ones to avoid in no particular order:

C-H BR, SQ D Homeline, GE (GE is the new Zinsco).

Norcal ... what are your thoughts regarding the quality of the Eaton/C-H panels that Home Depot sell?

 

[Norcal]

C-H sells 2 lines of residential /light commercial loadcenters, the C-H "Classic" (Tan colored handles) & the BR type (Formerly known as Bryant & as Westinghouse), I have the type Ch "Classic" in my house & is my prefered panel, the BR type is a cheap AL bussed panel, & will not use it....

 

[Jim Johnstone]

I'm in Ontario Canada. Dunno for certain but I think we only need arc fault in bedrooms.

Are all the Siemens breakers interchangeable? I'll be pulling out a 100 amp Siemens panel, and putting in the 200 amp. I'm going to move the 100 amp panel to the garage, and would like all the breakers to be interchangeable between the two panels, in case I need to borrow some from the old panel while setting up the new one.

I'm looking at the Siemens Nu Pack load service entrance,

http://www.homedepot.ca/webapp/wcs/...artial&Ntx=mode+matchall&N=0&Ntk=P_PartNumber

 

[Norcal]

I'm in Ontario Canada. Dunno for certain but I think we only need arc fault in bedrooms.

Are all the Siemens breakers interchangeable? I'll be pulling out a 100 amp Siemens panel, and putting in the 200 amp. I'm going to move the 100 amp panel to the garage, and would like all the breakers to be interchangeable between the two panels, in case I need to borrow some from the old panel while setting up the new one.

I'm looking at the Siemens Nu Pack load service entrance,

http://www.homedepot.ca/webapp/wcs/...artial&Ntx=mode+matchall&N=0&Ntk=P_PartNumber

Siemens should be, BTW before they were "Siemens" they were known as "ITE", but ITE in Canada is not the same as in the US.

 

[tfi racing]

That is a good choice up here,remember that US products can be different from what is available in Canada.Since this is a retrofit in an existing house,you will likely have no need (or desire) for AFCI or GFCI breakers,however if you are planning a major addition or renovation you will have to wire those areas to the current Canadian code.Remember,most of the info you will see on this forum is US and NEC specific,the CEC varies considerably in several areas,as always your local rules and code interpretions can and will vary...

 

[cnc-me]

Square D QO

 

[jvitez]

GFCI protection is required anywhere a receptacle is closer than 6 ft to water, ie sink, bathtub, etc.

Siemens are good products. Last house & current one has Siemens panels. Since they're popular here, I've had no trouble finding breakers. CH BR also are popular, probably due to price. Square D are available but noticeably less popular.

Curiously enough, Siemens breakers and interchangeable with CH BR breakers. I'm installing a CH BR subpanel in by basement workshop.

Federal Pioneer were popular as they were the cheapest, but I'm seeing them less and less. I like the color coded breakers, but they do seem rather flimsy. These are not the US Federal panels that caught fire.

 

[Norcal]

GFCI protection is required anywhere a receptacle is closer than 6 ft to water, ie sink, bathtub, etc.

Siemens are good products. Last house & current one has Siemens panels. Since they're popular here, I've had no trouble finding breakers. CH BR also are popular, probably due to price. Square D are available but noticeably less popular.

Curiously enough, Siemens breakers and interchangeable with CH BR breakers. I'm installing a CH BR subpanel in by basement workshop.

Federal Pioneer were popular as they were the cheapest, but I'm seeing them less and less. I like the color coded breakers, but they do seem rather flimsy. These are not the US Federal panels that caught fire.

The 6' from water must be a CEC issue, not a NEC one, BTW Federal Pioneer panels are due to be discontinued by Schneider (parent company of SQ D), breakers will continue to be avail, but will IMO go up in price....

 

[ishiboo]

Square D QO. Interior stabs may be nylon-reinforced thermoplastic but I've never broken one. Out of all my QO panels, the only issue I've had fail is a single breaker in one of my rentals.

CH/Homeline are decent economical choices. I've replaced about 3-4 Homeline breakers over time in one Homeline panel, and the same amount on a single CH panel. On the CH panel, which is about 15-20 years old, there's a ton of rust, the breakers fit loosely and it needs to be replaced. I have a now 40+ year old QO panel which still looks and functions like new.

 

[Norcal]

Square D QO. Interior stabs may be nylon-reinforced thermoplastic but I've never broken one. Out of all my QO panels, the only issue I've had fail is a single breaker in one of my rentals.

CH/Homeline are decent economical choices. I've replaced about 3-4 Homeline breakers over time in one Homeline panel, and the same amount on a single CH panel. On the CH panel, which is about 15-20 years old, there's a ton of rust, the breakers fit loosely and it needs to be replaced. I have a now 40+ year old QO panel which still looks and functions like new.

There are 2/ TWO C-H loadcenter lines BR & CH, BR is ****, CH is WAY better quality then current QO offerings... A 40 YO SQ D, QO is a good panel, too bad they decided to skimp on them now.

 

[User_Name]

Curiously enough, Siemens breakers and interchangeable with CH BR breakers.

I found this out a few days ago. It seems the only difference is the geometry of the metal clip that fits onto the bus tab. I'm looking at a CH right now and comparing it to the original ITE breaker that it replaced (and was since replaced by a Siemans). The ITE looks to make much firmer/deeper contact with the tab than the CH. I wish I had a new Siemans in front of me to compare the heights, but if I remember right I think it was roughly the same as the CH but had firmer retention onto the bus tab.

Just an amateur's observations so take it for what it's worth, ie. not too much.

 

[Norcal]

Curiously enough, Siemens breakers and interchangeable with CH BR breakers. I'm installing a CH BR subpanel in by basement workshop.

They are interchangeable only if you have paperwork stating they can be interchanged, otherwise no dice.

UL has "classified" some breakers to be used in other manufacturers panels, the paperwork will specify the catalog number(s) of the panel(s) they are allowed to be used with, just because they fit does not mean one can use them.

 

[tfi racing]

The 6' from water must be a CEC issue, not a NEC one

That is just a loose generalization of the CEC GFCI rules or a rule of thumb as they would say.The actual rules are much more specific,there are many instances where a non GFCI protected outlet is indeed allowed within 6' from wet things.

 

[jvitez]

Yes, only officially approved breaker equivalences are allowable, officially... The electrical guy at Home Depot even asked me when I was looking for a Siemens breaker they didn't have in stock "Is this going to be inspected?" If not, he offered the CH BR "equivalent." I passed.

I know the CEC can be very different from NEC rules. I post my experiences/knowledge with this in mind, but gladly give way to gents who REALLY know what they're doing, ie professionals, like Norcal and tpi racing.

Thanks for the info about Federal Pioneer panels. FIL has one at his cottage: pretty cheap IMO. CH BR look far better/more sturdily built.

 

[Jim Johnstone]

Thanks for the help guys. I opted for a Siemens 200 amp "Surge Pack" panel, that is identical to the one I linked to above, but included a surge protected breaker as well for only $30 more.