Need a tool for finding open circuit breakpoints. Suggestions?

[KinzeMech]

I need a suggestion for where to begin searching. I do not even know what a tool like this is called.

I am looking for something that can help me find a point, inside a harness, where a wire is broken. I am an ag implement mechanic, primarily working on planters. I know all the common pinch points on the wiring harnesses, and can usually find the break point evidenced by external damage to the wiring loom, within 10 minutes observation, without invasive testing.

However...at least several times a year, I will find myself working on a hidden wiring defect. It always ends up to be for one reason or another, the wire has broken inside of the insualtion, with no external signs of issue. These are fun to hunt down, the present process is too invasive. Start in the middle, open up the wire loom so you can probe, test continuity to each end, find out which direction the break is in, move that way half the distance, and try again.

I'd like to find these hidden breaks without probing repeatedly in the middle of a line. I hate puncturing insulation if it is avoidable, and I have seen this issue often enough I feel I owe it to the customer to upgrade my tools to better service this issue.

I'm looking for a good tool over a cheap one, but for starters, let's not rule anything out on price, high OR low.

Suggestions? Please and Thank you!

 

[KinzeMech]

Also worth noting, there is periodically the short to frame, short to ground, or short to another wire issue to be tracked down. Bonus points if suggested tool is also useful for that.

 

[silver2000]

I just bought an Amprobe that is workign very wel. I tried the greenlee tool and it was too finicky for using IMO. The amprobe does take some tuning when you get going but after that I identified more than 40 circuit with it. Plus I can use ti find underground ones. Try to find one used thats what I did to keep costs down.

 

[mattmankow]

Power Probe
Model # ECT2000

 

[Rezeppa]

Ok I have a lot of experience with this and have learned the best way to do this is with a multimeter, test light, and GTC FF310 Fault Finder it works like a dog invisible fence sending a radio transmission through the fuse panel and a tracer tool following the wires until you identify the problem. Example I was at work and one of our dump trucks had the break lights on 24/7. The techs working on it had been playing for 8 hours. I respect these techs and admire their mechanical ability one but after asking me if I had any ideas I had found the short in about 5 mins with my GTC FF310 now everyone has one. Mac and Matco have hem rebranded but it is cheaper online.

 

[xj31]

I have owned the power probe for a few years and it can work pretty well. But I am interested in that GTC now. It looks like a better design.

 

[KinzeMech]

I have used a tool similar to that. What I have found is with one broken wire in a loom containing about 15 wires, the other lines will carry the signal past the break point. I believe it is called capacitive coupling.

I am currently viewing video demonstrations of the ECT2000. It looks to be promising.

 

[KinzeMech]

The ECT looks promising. Can it be used on an unpowered circuit? Or will I need to get a 12 volt battery nearby to hook up to use it?

 

[lennoxlennox]

i have the ECT2000... great tool

 

[KinzeMech]

There's an outfit on ebay that the PPkit03 which includes it AND the Power Probe 3. I'm presently trying to visualize if I have much use for the kit which includes the PP3, or if I should just look to the ECT2000

 

[lennoxlennox]

get the kit... best value

you will get lots of use out of the pp3

 

[signcrafter]

There's an outfit on ebay that the PPkit03 which includes it AND the Power Probe 3. I'm presently trying to visualize if I have much use for the kit which includes the PP3, or if I should just look to the ECT2000

If you are going to get the ECT2000 you might as well get the kit. I really like my PPIII.

 

[mattmankow]

ECT2000 is used on isolated circuits, so no external power source is necessary. Power probe is great for trouble shooting. I can't say how much time it has saved me. Kit is good value!

 

[mikebramel]

The GTC FF unit does work well

 

[KinzeMech]

Has anyone used either of these to find a single broken wire in a tight bundle of wires? The other wires in the bundle tend to pick up and carry the signal, I need one sensitive enough to not be "fooled" by this.

 

[Vegaman_Dan]

Compass. DC power running through the wire will create a magnetic field, though weak. Where it suddenly changes is usually a pinch point or location that resistance is building up as well as causing excessive current flow. Doesn't help so much if multiple circuits are live at once, but it's an old trick.

 

[KinzeMech]

Most commonly, I am searching for an open circuit breakpoint. I don't think it would work for that.
Still interesting to know.

 

[zuk123]

KinzeMech- in the non-automotive world, we'd call that a fault finder, usually using TDR to find the length to the fault. (Time Domain Reflectometry)

You hook it to the wire, and it tells you the length to the end or the break, whichever comes first.

Here is one example:
http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/72-7960&green=86BC4D9F-EF18-5720-0B8A-53DC9413D867

Something like that might work for you...


zuk

 

[KinzeMech]

That may be the best solution yet.
I have about two months until I need this tool, so plenty of time to study options.

 

[Danglerb]

Most cheap ones just hook up at the fuse and put a weak radio signal on the wire which you follow with a small hand held meter. I have a KD cost about $25.

Fancy stuff that finds broken, not just shorted wires can cost a LOT.

 

[coolreed]

Ever consider aquiring and using Time Domain Reflectometer? (TDR)

Guarantee it will find the discontinuity.

 

[LA1Z24]

Ever consider aquiring and using Time Domain Reflectometer? (TDR)

Guarantee it will find the discontinuity.

Interesting tool here. Neve heard of one. Can you suggest a particular unit to someone new to this type of tool?

From what I'm reading online...This can only be used to troubleshoot wires that either have a shield in them, or a twisted pair...Meaning you NEED 2 seperate conductors in the cable for this to work. Any more info? Truth to this?

 

[KinzeMech]

KinzeMech- in the non-automotive world, we'd call that a fault finder, usually using TDR to find the length to the fault. (Time Domain Reflectometry)

You hook it to the wire, and it tells you the length to the end or the break, whichever comes first.

Here is one example:
http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/72-7960&green=86BC4D9F-EF18-5720-0B8A-53DC9413D867

Something like that might work for you...
zuk

Will it work with a common 10-12-14 ga. wire run in a wire loom for common DC circuits?
I've been reading on the subject of TDR, and the tools I've seen all seem to be geared for twisted pair or coaxial cable wires.

 

[humber2]

Look up www.psiber.com for their Cabletool

 

[zuk123]

Will it work with a common 10-12-14 ga. wire run in a wire loom for common DC circuits?
I've been reading on the subject of TDR, and the tools I've seen all seem to be geared for twisted pair or coaxial cable wires.

It should work as it uses the electrical reflection from the wire end. They are aimed at the telcom market, so that's why you see the emphasis. I've used them on coax, which is just a single conductor, to find out how much is left on the spool, no problem.

You'd have to make an adapter but should be straightforward. I'll add it to my stack of projects to test, since you aren't in a hurry

zuk

 

[Rezeppa]

Ok you want as stated by me earlier the GTC FF310 it Is perfect for what you are trying to do and works the beatnik have tried many and it will pin point your problem.

 

[snowman1981]

I have a power probe ect2000. and i really love the tool when i need it. it does a great job. i found a short to ground in a rubbed through wiring harnes in less than 10 mins last week and a corroded broken wire today on a box truck in less that 20 mins. its a real time saver if you do alot of this kind of work. sometimes i go monthes with out using it but i have needed it twice in two weeks. it will pay for its self. my 2 cents.

 

[KinzeMech]

Thanks all for the input. I went with http://www.ebay.com/itm/200624885182?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649. It looks like it will do what I need, plus has several other uses, all for less than $200.

 

[skulldrinker]

Thanks all for the input. I went with http://www.ebay.com/itm/200624885182?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649. It looks like it will do what I need, plus has several other uses, all for less than $200.

that's a good price even cheaper than Amazon

 

[KinzeMech]

the gtc ff310 was really tempting, but that price couldn't be beat, and the power probe that was also in the kit will be useful for other things.