Need a WATERPROOF garage floor; all suggestions welcome

[silverspeedbuggy]

Here's a challenge!

Hi all-
I stumbled across this site from a car forum. I need advice for a waterproof garage floor covering. I'll try to keep this brief, but I have a 1939 home that has an attached 2 car garage built like a parking garage; there's a basement underneath the garage. Being in Cleveland OH we have HOT summer and COOOOLD winters and ODOT loves salt. Mix all of this together and you can imagine the condition of the garage floor. When we bought the house we had no idea what we would encounter the first winter: pull a car in covered in snow, the snow melts, and due to cracks in the concrete it 'rains' in the basement. Needless to say we don't use the garage in the winter.

Someone in the past put some kind of 'panels' over the floor, added a drain, and added a crown down the middle of the garage (parallel to the garage doors) that should move the water in one of two directions: towards the doors, or towards the drain (it's on the opposite side of the crown). The 'panels' on the floor are similar to concrete board you put behind shower tiles, but thicker. They then did what looks like an epoxy finish over the panels. It hasn't held up well.

So here's my dilemma: what should we do? We need something:
A. Waterproof to keep the water from entering the basement
B. Relatively inexpensive (concrete guys will probably want to remove/repour floor)
C. Something DIY (I'm a pretty handy guy)
D. Something that will hold up to the elements

Options I've considered:
1. Porcelain tile. I've read a bunch of the threads here on tiling and it seems like a great option. I have concerns about the 'crown' and fitting tiles to that/cracking/breaking etc. I'd probably use epoxy grout for the waterproof properties.
2. Rubber tiles. I found a waterproof interlocking tile on a site that you pund together with a mallet. Pricey.
3. Rubber mats with a raised edge.
4. Industrial Epoxy. Not sure how great of a surface I can get with those weird 'panels' on the floor now. I'm also not sure how well the epoxy will penetrate the exsting cracks and seal them.

I should add: we have had a structural engineer look at the garage, and despite the cracks and some spalling, the garage in excellent condition, so there's no fear of cars crashing through into the basement.

Any suggestions?

 

[SapesOfIndia]

I can't even imagine how a concrete garage floor can be built above basement. I know you have it but I have never seen one.

 

[Garage Flooring]

The term 'water proof' always scares me. Although any individual component can be waterproof, it is only as strong as its weakest link. So a waterproof garage floor meets a sheet rock wall and there goes waterproof. BUT as far as the floor itself goes, we have a tile that meets that requirement. We have installation instructions specifically for that purpose as well.

• Waterproof garage floor tiles

Now, when we understand the fact that you are likely not going to create a swimming pool in your garage, our TrueLock PVC Tile with top coat is a very watertight system.

 

[silverspeedbuggy]

I can't even imagine how a concrete garage floor can be built above basement. I know you have it but I have never seen one.

I can't even imagine how a concrete garage floor can be built above basement. I know you have it but I have never seen one.
__________________

Go to any parking garage; our basement and garage are built almost identically. There's a poured concrete floor in the basement, cement block walls, and two thick beams that run east/west. The ceiling is poured cement; you can see the wood pattern/graining from the forms when the slab was poured. it's reinforced with rebar. The garage itself has cement block walls, the cement floor (duh), and the strange 'panels' that seem to have a skim coat over them on top of the floor.

I took pictures, but they are pretty embarassing (awful floor, messy basement, messy garage).

 

[silverspeedbuggy]

The term 'water proof' always scares me. Although any individual component can be waterproof, it is only as strong as its weakest link. So a waterproof garage floor meets a sheet rock wall and there goes waterproof. BUT as far as the floor itself goes, we have a tile that meets that requirement. We have installation instructions specifically for that purpose as well.

• Waterproof garage floor tiles

Now, when we understand the fact that you are likely not going to create a swimming pool in your garage, our TrueLock PVC Tile with top coat is a very watertight system.

Thanks for the reply Justin. I'm guessing 'water tight' might be a better way to describe what we need. We're looking for some solution to keep the water from entering the basement. A floor where the water can sit on (water-tight) and then be brushed/squeegeed out (or just left to evaporate) would be great.

I've even considered a two-prong approach: tile floor with a mat on top for each car. A mat like: http://www.garageflooringllc.com/auto-floor-guard-containment-mat/

As I mentioned, there is a drain and a slight crown to the middle of the floor, so water would move towards the doors, and towards the drain. Your Tuff-Seal tiles are very similar to another tile I saw on site a few years ago. But I'm wondering how they'd flex over the crown. The floor on the side with the drain may be slightly panned to the drain, but I'm not 100% sure of this since we haven't parked a soaking wet/caked with snow car in the garage in 5 years.

 

[Garage Flooring]

Thanks for the reply Justin. I'm guessing 'water tight' might be a better way to describe what we need. We're looking for some solution to keep the water from entering the basement. A floor where the water can sit on (water-tight) and then be brushed/squeegeed out (or just left to evaporate) would be great.

I've even considered a two-prong approach: tile floor with a mat on top for each car. A mat like: http://www.garageflooringllc.com/auto-floor-guard-containment-mat/

As I mentioned, there is a drain and a slight crown to the middle of the floor, so water would move towards the doors, and towards the drain. Your Tuff-Seal tiles are very similar to another tile I saw on site a few years ago. But I'm wondering how they'd flex over the crown. The floor on the side with the drain may be slightly panned to the drain, but I'm not 100% sure of this since we haven't parked a soaking wet/caked with snow car in the garage in 5 years.

Go with the true lock tile in PVC. You can probably get by without the top coat if you want to save a penny or two

 

[pauls340]

I have a good source for Mg-Krete Self Level SLU, so if I had your situation, I would float the complete floor with it and that product will waterproof your slab and will be +/- 1/4". A recent Permeability Test showed it would take over 5,000 years for any moisture to go thru Mg-Krete. It's natural color is light beige with SLU. You can then put any tile over it.

 

[TRUCRETE]

have you thought about filling the cracks with a poly-sulfide caulk and then apply a silane or siloxane penetrating sealer? They are hydrophobic by nature and repel water. Once applied, the concrete will look like it did before the application but water will bead up and remain on the surface. They can not peel as they are not a coating. Do a google search. Low cost and super easy to apply. May be just what you are looking for.

 

[silverspeedbuggy]

I have a good source for Mg-Krete Self Level SLU, so if I had your situation, I would float the complete floor with it and that product will waterproof your slab and will be +/- 1/4". A recent Permeability Test showed it would take over 5,000 years for any moisture to go thru Mg-Krete. It's natural color is light beige with SLU. You can then put any tile over it.

The garage floor has two slopes to it, can I use a self-leveling concrete? It'll all just run out the doors, right? Would it fill all the hairline cracks? If it's that good, would I have to tile over it?

(sorry, lots of questions)

 

[silverspeedbuggy]

have you thought about filling the cracks with a poly-sulfide caulk and then apply a silane or siloxane penetrating sealer? They are hydrophobic by nature and repel water. Once applied, the concrete will look like it did before the application but water will bead up and remain on the surface. They can not peel as they are not a coating. Do a google search. Low cost and super easy to apply. May be just what you are looking for.

Well, there are two 'levels' to the cracks; the cracks in the hardboard 'panels' that are on top of the concrete, and then the cracks in the concrete floor itself. Could I 'burn' that caulk into the floor like thinset is 'burned' into the floor prior to using the notched trowel? Would I need to prep the floor prior to applying the sealers?

 

[silverspeedbuggy]

OK, you know what's dumb? I took the pictures below, and I feel like I'm putting up all my drity laundry for everyone to see.

The garage and the basement are the ugliest parts of the house, so keep that in mind.

Here's one of the outside (brick will be fixed/tuck pointed this summer):


Here's the front edge of the floor, you can see the 'epoxy' or whatever it is has come off the 'panels' that are on the floor:


I placed this board on the floor so you can get an idea of the crown that runs from left to right in the garage. The drain is directly in front of my project Scirocco:


Here's one shot of the drain. You can see the hard 'panels' have chipped away from around it and what appears to be the original concrete floor under them:


This one's dark, but here's the drain from another angle:


More:


If you look at the shadows/highlights on the floor in this shot you can make out the 'panels' laid out in strips that run from front to back:


Now, for the curious, here's the basement directly under the garage.

First, here's the ceiling directly under the Scirocco. You can see one of two beams that runs left to right under the cars. The wall at the far side is directly under the garage doors:


Another shot just panned to the right a bit:


Looking the opposite direction, here's the second beam:


As you can see, all the years of water and salt have caused some serious corrosion to the steel/metal that's in the basement. There are areas where the rebar has rusted, but the engineer that looked at the basement assured us, in writing, that it was structurally sound. He did advise to come up with some solution to ensure little to no water continues to permeate the pad. That's why I'm posting here.

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

We helped a gentleman a few years ago with a similar application/challenge. He used our gel crack filler for his cracks and joints. Post cure, he applied a three coat epoxy/urethane system. We recommended a primer that has good elongation properties, it can actually be used on wood floors without cracking.

He never called back with issues.

 

[silverspeedbuggy]

We helped a gentleman a few years ago with a similar application/challenge. He used our gel crack filler for his cracks and joints. Post cure, he applied a three coat epoxy/urethane system. We recommended a primer that has good elongation properties, it can actually be used on wood floors without cracking.

He never called back with issues.

I'm wondering if I should remove the 'panels' on the floor. I don't know what they are, or if anything will even adhere to them.

But I'm afraid of what I might uncover....

 

[gpalmer77]

Nice Scirocco. 16V?

 

[silverspeedbuggy]

Nice Scirocco. 16V?

Yep. 1987. My dad bought in '92, he drove it for about 4 years then it became his weekend/summer car. It overheated one day, he parked it (outside), and it sat for nearly 4 years. He passed it on to me a little over a year ago and I've been monkeying with it. Fun project. I've never done any real work on cars before so I've just had this "well, I'll give it a shot" attitudes with it. New timing belt? I'll give it a shot. New water pump? OK. New radiator (after I puntured the old one doing something dumb)? Sure. New brakes including new brake lines and front calipers? Might as well try to tackle that too. I've been successful with all those, but the overheating is due to a bad headgasket. The car's going in for a new one and two new motor mounts in the next two weeks or so. I can't wait. I'll finally be able to drive the car for more than 10 minutes at a time.

There's still lots to do on the car after the headgasket: new shocks and springs, wheel alignment,m new tires, wheels need refinishing, fix a non-working passenger window, radio only plays properly through two speakers (on opposite sides of the car), and then lots and lots of rust to address. I'm going totally OEM with this; most 16V 'Roccos I see are done up for track purposes, or have tons of Euro bits on them, but I think I've got one of the few all-original 16V's out there. We'll see.

More pics (just to show off my pride and joy a little):



At my sister's house:


Overheating in my parent's driveway when I drove to there to surprise dad on Father's Day:



Here's what it looked like sitting at mom and dad's:

 

[Spam16v]

Second on the ole' ****-roc

 

[ishiboo]

The "panels" you see I think are just a concrete topping someone applied by hand, and probably without a bonding agent. I would strongly consider redoing these before spending any money on paint-on surface treatments, as it will continue to spall and detach. You might also have a licensed engineer take a quick peek at the structure.

EDIT: Ooops, see it was already inspected... nevermind

 

[Kevin54]

What you are calling "panels" I think is just some halfassed repairs made using some bags of cement mixed up in either a power mixer or wheelbarrow. If it were my place, what I would do is rent a small electric jackhammer and tear off that layer that has been added. Then get some sort of a bonding agent on what is underneath and then have some sort of self leveling material put down.

I'm sure any concrete company, and even the flooring experts in here can tell you what to use. I'm good at tearing things up when it comes to something like that, but not putting it back together.

 

[dgubbrud]

What did you end up doing with your garage floor? I am in the same boat and don't know what to do? Thanks

 

[TheGunCollector]

I can't even imagine how a concrete garage floor can be built above basement. I know you have it but I have never seen one.

I have a garage built above another garage.

 

[TractorJeff]

My brother has a coal bunker/cellar room under his concrete front porch in NYS.