Need advice about addition vs standalone building

[TXNinAZ]

So my wife and I are closing on our new home in a few weeks, and I've got some budget to improve the garage. We've got a full acre in an area where that's not too common (20 min from downtown Phoenix), so I'm pretty excited!

Trying to decide on my approach- add on to the attached three car (34wx23d now) since there's plenty of land (add ~16wx23d), or build a standalone 20x40ish. Standalone would hurt with taxes, since it's another structure on the property, and addition would just be more non-living space, so that's a plus. An addition would also probably improve the look of the house, since I'm not adding a garage door- it would just look like living space from the street, matching the left side of the house. I've never liked houses that are just all garage doors- makes it look commercial. A major downside would be that all the utilities are on the side where I would build on- (electrical panels face outdoors here), gas meter, and water in from the city. Adding on is also the wife's vote, since she'd rather the yard stay just yard.

Thoughts/opinions?

 

[justanengineer]

JMO but I'd hold off doing either until youve lived there a few years. Once you start building youre going to find an acre is pretty tiny, and you'd find much better uses and value for the little you have without doing so. I live in one of the most desirable neighborhoods in our city, all of us have 1-3 acre lots with big adjoining backyards, many of which are more like gardens than yards. Over the past few years several newbies have been like yourself and bought intending to build outbuildings, thankfully for my property value the neighborhood has talked them out of it every time. What many folks on this site and elsewhere fail to realize is that these bigger city properties are seriously more desirable and worth more left open, city folks want open outdoor space, pools, and yards for their kids to play, not more dam buildings to stare at.

 

[Off-Street Parking]

Go underground! You have plenty of space to dig adjacent to the house without disturbing structures, you wouldn't have the "commercial" look from the street, and your wife gets to keep the yard! Everyone wins!

 

[TXNinAZ]

Go underground! You have plenty of space to dig adjacent to the house without disturbing structures, you wouldn't have the "commercial" look from the street, and your wife gets to keep the yard! Everyone wins!

Ha. Hard to move a transmission over to the lift up some stairs!

 

[James-W]

I agree with "justanengineer" in that I would wait for awhile before deciding what to do. Live there for at least a year, preferably longer, and get the "feel" of things before jumping into a building project. Maybe you will see things in a totally different light and change your mind about everything.

 

[TXNinAZ]

I agree with "justanengineer" in that I would wait for awhile before deciding what to do. Live there for at least a year, preferably longer, and get the "feel" of things before jumping into a building project. Maybe you will see things in a totally different light and change your mind about everything.

Fair enough- I should have mentioned the new house is only about 300 yards away from my current home that I've lived in for about 6 years. I know the area pretty well, so I'm not too worried about making changes soon.

 

[readhead]

My first thought would be to add on which would be less expensive. I'm confused about your options. You mention a 16'x23' addition or a 20'x40' stand alone structure. That is two very different sizes. What will the use be?

 

[Cyberbear]

Perhaps a stand alone with a connected breezeway may be considered as a way to get what you wish and avoid the separate building entanglements. I went through this situation years ago and after installing a roof from the house to the garage it became a different application and had tax advantages. Previously, the stand alone was considered commercial, but after the breezeway connection to the home it became residential.

 

[WhiffySpark]

I'd build off the back of the garage. Looks like you have one stall kick out. That would be cool, idk about property lines and stuff

 

[My Old Tools]

Leave the garage for parking cars. Build a stand alone shop (if that is what you are needing) on the other side of the property and set back a bit. You might tell us more about your use of the space.

 

[TXNinAZ]

My first thought would be to add on which would be less expensive. I'm confused about your options. You mention a 16'x23' addition or a 20'x40' stand alone structure. That is two very different sizes. What will the use be?

Well the idea is that by adding on, I'll have one large connected space- something like 50x23, which should be enough. If I go standalone, I would make it a bit smaller, since I would still have the 34x23 attached, and the cars could stay in there while not being worked on.

Leave the garage for parking cars. Build a stand alone shop (if that is what you are needing) on the other side of the property and set back a bit. You might tell us more about your use of the space.

So I'm going to be using the garage for various things, but mostly auto work/resto and some fab. With the extra space I'll have, I want to add a blast cabinet, proper parts washing setup, a real welding table...there will almost always be 3 cars parked inside, so having everything separated is great, but another thing I forgot to mention is climate control. Without A/C, a shop is useless here for 5-6 months a year. So if the building is separate, we'd be adding two A/C units, one for attached, one for standalone (gotta keep the wife happy and comfortable where she parks! We've both gotten spoiled parking in the cool at the current house).

Having a standalone would help a lot with planning- the lift would be simple with a 14' or 16' ceiling, whereas on the attached, I'd have to go with a floor plate Bendpak or even Maxx Jaxx, since it'd be in the spot behind the single bay door. Ugh starting to think I'll need to add another door if I go with attached- if I put the lift in the extension, don't want to have to put it in there 'sideways' and pull in through the big door to get something up in the air.

 

[TXNinAZ]

I'd build off the back of the garage. Looks like you have one stall kick out. That would be cool, idk about property lines and stuff

That was my first thought about an addition, but then I'd be running into issues with the roofline coming off the main part of the house, as well as displacing the air conditioners. By extending along the same line as the garage is currently on, the design (and therefore cost) should be a lot simpler.

 

[WhiffySpark]

That was my first thought about an addition, but then I'd be running into issues with the roofline coming off the main part of the house, as well as displacing the air conditioners. By extending along the same line as the garage is currently on, the design (and therefore cost) should be a lot simpler.

Maybe offset it behind the fence beside your existing garage. You could leave the ac in place, but would have less cost extending your driveway if needed. Just an idea. I am in no way in designer and I don't worry about looks too much.

 

[TXNinAZ]

Maybe offset it behind the fence beside your existing garage. You could leave the ac in place, but would have less cost extending your driveway if needed. Just an idea. I am in no way in designer and I don't worry about looks too much.

Yep- that's been another thought. Just basically make the front of the extension in line with the RV gate/wall. Would save moving the utilities as well, just wouldn't line up well with anything. I'm assuming they'd have to tear off more than half of the roof of the existing garage to do that, but may still be an option, depending on cost.

 

[LXCam]

I'd do a nice free standing structure at the end of that slab with one roll up door on the south side (assuming looking at the plot shot, the top is north). It'd be far from the house so no noise and would give you a whole new area for entertaining. I have 1.125 acre with three structures on it and like how you can break up areas, it makes parties kinda of fun and private at the same time.

 

[onthefence777]

Put a second metal shop building out back, spray insulation foam and invest in a very good A/C system. That way when you figure out how small an acre is, you can disassemble and reassemble it on a much bigger property later on.

 

[matt_i]

In AZ, where I lived for 2 years, 1 acre is a monumentally sized property. Most newer neighborhoods are on 1/10 ac. or so.

That said, its a tough decision. Much more care and labor has to go into adding on, depending on the circumstances. Getting walls to align, finding studs within existing buildings to tie into, making rooflines and or trusses match, sealing roofline connections adequately and properly...tougher. Even getting a concrete truck to pour in certain areas can be non negotiable in attached construction. So, I consider a freestanding building an easier build, for either you or the builder.

The upside is that you don't have to move any utilities, if you attach. You might have to route them thru the building, but not underground, no slab or wall penetrations, no trenching. This may or may not matter, but it was a consideration for me.

Also, my township has zoning that allows 1 outbuilding per residential property. So it had better encompass any future needs otherwise it could be trouble.

 

[TXNinAZ]

Interesting comments about 1 acre being so small. In this part of the state there are basically two choices for lots- either it's 7,000-10,000 sq ft with a reasonably affordable house on it ($150-$400k), or it's an acre with a $1.5M house on it in Paradise Valley/Scottsdale.

There are some older areas with 1 acre lots that have homes built in the 1970s with no updating (bad insulation, single pane windows, ancient air conditioners) that go for ~$400k. For me to find a 46,000 sq ft lot with an 8 year old, 3,300 sq ft home on it is incredibly uncommon. Yes, 5 acres loaded with trees would be fantastic, but those don't exist unless I want to move 50 miles west, have well water (that's basically brackish here), septic, and 5 acres of dust with no chance to grow anything on it. My new home has unlimited HOA-provided well water for landscaping as part of my $55 a month association fee. I could not have done any better in my price range within a 50 mile radius of downtown Phoenix.

 

[EdT]

You might want to check with three people in trying to answer your question.
First, the tax assessor. If you add onto your house, your taxes will go up. If you add a separate structure, your taxes will go up. Where I am, non-residential structures are flat rated for tax purposes at $10K. So, where I am, the tax hit for a separate building (non residential) is pretty small. Don't know what it's like where you are, but it would be a good thing to know. Also find out what defines "residential". My shop is separate and has a separate 200 amp service and HVAC, but no plumbing so it's not residential.
Second, the planning and zoning board. That's to find out what you're allowed to do. I guess the HOA would be good for the same reason. (maybe that's a fourth person). Where I am the zoning allows a secondary structure to be only a certain percentage of the primary structure and the roof of the second structure cannot be taller than the primary one. The percentage varies with the size of the primary structure and, IIR, the size of the lot.
Third, your insurance guy. For me there is some insurance advantage of a detached garage compared to one that connects to the house even by a breezeway. Your area may be different, but it's a good thing to know before you get an ugly surprise.
Not much help on the specific question, but things you should know; IMHO.

 

[Joe100]

Wish I had just an acre! Build it stand alone no fumes from painting welding or cleaning fluid go in to the house and linger. I really like mine

 

[rburke65]

If my vote counted, I would go for the stand alone. And build it larger.

 

[TXNinAZ]

If my vote counted, I would go for the stand alone. And build it larger.

How much larger? I'm thinking with the attached 34x23, another 20x40 would be plenty.

 

[mebuildit]

We are finalizing our drawings for a house and detached shop. We are up in North Scottsdale east of Troon.
We decided to make the shop separate from the house for several reasons. The biggest reason was at our old house I would inadvertently trail in metal pieces on my shoes and clothes. Plus the noise from grinding and the air compressor was annoying to her at times.
So we bought 1 1/3 acres and now the house will be 3500sqft and the shop will be 3250sqft. We are building the shop out of metal using Bunger Steel buildings. The price is so affordable and you still can stucco it if you wish. The shop will be 65w x 50d x 18' high ceilings. This should be a great start, including an in ground 2 post lift, room for all of my welders, Mill, lathe, tube bender, cnc plasma and cnc router.
My suggestion is to look at Bunger Steel for some ideas.
Sorry I didn't mean to hi-jack your thread, just wanted to share what we were doing.

 

[maxpower_hd]

For my usage I really wish I could have a stand alone. My issue is my lot is so small I had to build one attached to the house because there was no where else I could put it. It's nice to go out to the shop with slippers and a coffee when it's raining or snowing but I would rather be separate for fumes and safety.

 

[TXNinAZ]

We are finalizing our drawings for a house and detached shop. We are up in North Scottsdale east of Troon.

We decided to make the shop separate from the house for several reasons. The biggest reason was at our old house I would inadvertently trail in metal pieces on my shoes and clothes. Plus the noise from grinding and the air compressor was annoying to her at times.

So we bought 1 1/3 acres and now the house will be 3500sqft and the shop will be 3250sqft. We are building the shop out of metal using Bunger Steel buildings. The price is so affordable and you still can stucco it if you wish. The shop will be 65w x 50d x 18' high ceilings. This should be a great start, including an in ground 2 post lift, room for all of my welders, Mill, lathe, tube bender, cnc plasma and cnc router.

My suggestion is to look at Bunger Steel for some ideas.

Sorry I didn't mean to hi-jack your thread, just wanted to share what we were doing.

I can't even imagine what you must be spending up there. Good for you guys that you're able to do that- sounds pretty amazing!