Need Advice - Epoxy vs Stain

[TheNewGuy]

Yes, this is my first post, but only after spending quite a few hours reading all the posts about epoxy and the prep needed. Here's my situation....I have a 3 car garage (~600 sq') here in San Diego that has the original concrete floor (20 yrs old) which is in great shape except for the cheap paint the previous owner applied about 12 years ago. I will grind it all off using the Diamabrush (sp?) method posted here, check for water absorbency afterwards (the cup o' water test) & also check for moisture (taping the clear plastic sheet over a couple square ').

This is not a hard working garage, and my main concern is hot tire pickup. For the epoxy route, after meticulous prep work, I will apply a primer coat, then the color coat, then flakes to rejection (would like a granite look, if possible), the at least one clear coat. What is the best way to ensure no hot tire pickup? No guarantees, I know, just want to stack the deck in my favor.

Speaking of hot tire pickup, I was thinking that perhaps (after grinding & prep work) just a penetrating colored stain plus clear coat would have the least chance lifting under hot tires. Less material to lift up. Anyone have actual experience or knowledge of this approach.

Thanks in advance for all responses! Just want to do it "right" the first time.

 

[Shea]

Assuming that you are using 100% solids for your base coat and top coat, I wouldn't worry about hot tire pick up for the type of system you are installing. Many times hot tire pick up is due to an inferior product being used and/or lack of a primer coat. The hot tires can actually soften the coating and then cause it to pull up when driving out of the garage.

I personally prefer polyurethane for the clear coat because of it's many advantages over epoxy, but it doesn't mean that clear epoxy is not good, it's still a great top coat. As far as protection goes, your 3 coat epoxy system plus chips would protect your floor for much longer than a coat of clear over a stained floor.

 

[TheNewGuy]

Thanks for the quick reply, Shea. Yes, I would use a 100% solids, quality epoxy product.

And yes, from what I've read here on the forum, a polyurethane clear coat is the way to go for a DIY installation.

I'm considering getting one of those storage "pods" placed into my driveway to move all the garage stuff into for a month, to keep it secure and weather-proof. This would have the added bonus of falsely getting my neighbors' hopes up, thinking I may be selling the house and moving far away.....

 

[G20-Budo]

I'm considering getting one of those storage "pods" placed into my driveway to move all the garage stuff into for a month, to keep it secure and weather-proof.

This sounds like a great idea, I've seen a few others here on GJ do the pod thing. Keep us informed of how the epoxy works for you. I too have a triple that is about 20 years old, that had paint on the floor when I bought the place. And I'm also considering epoxy.

This would have the added bonus of falsely getting my neighbors' hopes up, thinking I may be selling the house and moving far away.....

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Yes. Acid stain is the preferred method and you probably can't purchase acetone where you live anyway.

Once stained, we recommend (2) coats of clear water based epoxy coating with a topcoat of good poly.

Again, you will get the wb clear but you can't get the really good poly unless you ship to Arizona or Nevada.

 

[TheNewGuy]

G20, looks like we're in the exact same situation! I will probably end up doing the full epoxy job, just mentioned stain because a coworker did his driveway (not garage) with a couple coats of stain, and it looks GREAT. So I thought it may work for the garage, as well, with the proper sealer. Plus much less material to peel up later, by either dragging something over it or the dreaded hot tire pickup. My version of the minimalist approach. I'm hoping that someone here has already done the stain, and can tell me exactly what they experienced....good or bad.

 

[TheNewGuy]

Scotty, thanks for the quick reply...I was hoping you would reply to me. I've learned so much by reading your posts!

OK, so acid stain is preferred, and yes, I can buy acetone here in SoCal, just bought a can last week @ Home Depot. So what would I need the acetone for?

From what you wrote, sounds like doing the stain ends up having as much "product" on it as the epoxy would. What I mean is there is the stain, maybe a couple coats, then two coats of clear epoxy, then a polyurethane topcoat. That's 4 to 5 applications. I was hoping for just stain + sealer.

So let me ask you this....is there a way to get a nice looking garage floor, that resists hot tire pickup, that a DIYer can do in a couple coats? Again, not a working garage.

Bonus question...would it look OK to grind the concrete & just apply a clear sealer, again that resists hot tire pickup? So a kind of fresh concrete look that's sealed? Or is there a colored sealer?

 

[thegarageguy]

Since you have to diamond grind, acid stain will be useless. Acid stain reacts to the lime in the concrete, which is concentrated in the cream of the concrete, which you will be grinding off. Plus, since it's a garage, a good grind will help open up the pores of the concrete, ensuring good penetration of your primer, which will help avoid the dreaded hot tire pick up.

Typically, we grind garage floors but if we are going to stain it, we up the diamonds a few more times to hone and smooth the surface in order to get a nicer finish.

Here is a a garage floor we finished last year and just recently had the opportunity to go back and take some pics

 

[TheNewGuy]

GarageGuy, thanks for the acid stain info. I never knew that. I suppose if I still wanted to use stain, it would have to be some sort of non-acid penetrating stain, correct?

Thanks for the pics, gives me a good idea of what to expect.

I had asked Scotty about a relatively simple 2 coat system, if there is one out there. Or should I just go with the full epoxy system and bite the expensive bullet?

Along the same line, is there a colored sealer that I could apply? Possibly just prime and then apply the colored sealer? Looking for options......

 

[thegarageguy]

everyone is always looking for a short cut and because of cost, usually find one. Sure you can just do 2 coats but will it perform to your expectations? Usually short cutting a system will affect the long term durability of the floor. This is when we hear about all the horror epoxy stories and how the stuff doesn't work.

A good high traffic polyurethane will protect your floor (investment). It's like painting your car and not clear coating it. It will yellow prematurely, be difficult to keep clean and will scratch or wear much easier.

You need a good penetrating or water proofing primer, a good 100% solids epoxy base coat and a good polyurethane at a minimum, regardless if you are staining it or going solid color

There are colored sealers out there but they typically will leave lap lines and or look like you painted your floor, not natural at all.

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Agreed. Stain it with a penetrating stain (acid) and protect with a clear epoxy and good urethane clear. It will look very nice and wear well too.

 

[TheNewGuy]

Thanks GarageGuy & Scotty. Yes, I was looking for a relatively easy and inexpensive way to a nice garage floor, but like most shortcuts, you get what you pay (and work) for. Since it appears to be roughly the same amount of work, I will go with a primer coat, colored epoxy, flakes to rejection, and polyurethane gloss clear coat.

How do I get a granite look? I would imagine LOTS of small flakes, but is there more to it than that? Seems like lots of small flakes would just look like lots of small flakes, not necessarily a granite appearance.

 

[thegarageguy]

flakes cannot be sealed by polyurethane...you need to lock them down with another coat of epoxy, then poly it.

 

[TheNewGuy]

Thanks, GarageGuy, I did not know that. Makes sense. Now I'm kinda concerned over how much I think I know....but really don't!

Back to the granite-look question. How do I achieve that kind of appearance?

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Smaller flakes. Go to torginol's site and look around.

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

flakes cannot be sealed by polyurethane...you need to lock them down with another coat of epoxy, then poly it.

Polyaspartic urethane is a fine sealer, two coats of aliphatic urethane work too.
Clear Epoxy over flakes in a garage is likely to amber at the door, over time.

 

[thegarageguy]

Are you recommending polyaspartic to a 1st timer DIYer? You do 2 coats of aliphatic urethane to seal over a full chip broadcast?

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

We do use (2) coats of aliphatic over a full chip broadcast. It works great and looks great.

If the customer wants to pull one coat over a full broadcast, over the flakes, understands the product, yes we do sell them poly-aspartic.

In addition, we now have a slow cure poly-aspartic, even a newbie can do it!



Unlike, most web retailers the folks that answer our phones know our flooring material and if it is beyond them they get someone, like me, who does.

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Here is a floor we (installer) did today.
Not a full broadcast but a "heavy".
Only one coat on this floor.
Diamond Ground, Cracks Filled, Fast Cure Primer, SD Coating & Flakes, HD356VOC




Shameless Plug: Work performed by Concrete Textures, Orlando, FL http://www.concretetextures.net/index.html

 

[G20-Budo]

Looks great. I wish my garage floor looked 1/2 that good! (Ok, I'd want it just like that).

 

[TheNewGuy]

I agree, G20, that is one NICE floor! Hey, we can do it too. I'm willing to do what it takes to get a great result.

Scotty, a slow cure poly-aspartic? Wow, that's news! Have not seen that on this forum before, that's awesome.

Now looking at the Torginol site...amazing stuff, my retinas are dancing. Way beyond flakes. I'm feeling like a kid in a candy shop now.

And I'm trying to get all my research done before I calculate the price. Something tells me this is all going to be WAY expensive. I may have to charge admission when I'm done!

Do forum members get a discount on any of these products?

 

[retfr8flyr]

OP I went through the same process, deciding on what to put on my floor. I ended up going with a 3 setup epoxy system from Wolverine coatings through the vendor Alpha Garage. I wanted a granite type of look and I chose this pattern of chips to rejection.

I started a thread on my makeover http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=193742 but I have been delayed getting it done by some injury problems. I am hoping to get the floor finished by the end of next week. I also went with a container setup for the garage stuff. Check out Smart Box, if they have one in your area. I am happy with them and they are reasonably priced.



Earl

 

[TheNewGuy]

retfr8flyr, thanks for the look at the granite style you're going for. Yes, that looks very close to what I'd like to attain. And I just took a look at your garage makeover thread, you are really going for it!

Thanks for the SmartBox tip. I'll call them for sure.

 

[bigyukonone]

I am a Newbie as well. I'm ready to pull the trigger on a garage flooring finish, but still up in the air on what route to take. I am still trying to determine which way to go (stain vs. base coat). I like the look of a stain much more, how would the educated folks on the board say the stain holds up vs. the basecoat (assuming the same type of sealer)?? This is all VERY new to me and this will actually be my first garage! any help and guidance offered is greatly appreciated.

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Bigone:
Both systems can have the same topcoat (urethane). Therefore, they should be equally durable. The color coat will be slightly thicker using the 100 solids base. Most clear systems we recommend omit this product.

It really comes down to your own taste.

 

[sanddan]

Here is a floor we (installer) did today.
Not a full broadcast but a "heavy".
Only one coat on this floor.
Diamond Ground, Cracks Filled, Fast Cure Primer, SD Coating & Flakes, HD356VOC




Shameless Plug: Work performed by Concrete Textures, Orlando, FL http://www.concretetextures.net/index.html

What do you use to fill the cracks?

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Kyle:

It's not as bad as you think.
Dive in!