Need advice for my new pole barn...Thanks!!

[midwestman23]

I am very thankful for this forum as we all have our strengths and weaknesses and building/construction is NOT one of mine. I have searched the forum and tried to learn as much as I can but some things are still clear as mud to me.
Eastern Iowa new build of 40X56X18 pole barn.
Basic function of the barn will be to store our camper and other things and also provide a fun space for kids to do sports and adults to have a good time as well. That is the reason for the 18 ft high side wall. Basketball hoop will hopefully be used alot in there.
ANY suggestions would be welcome but I will discuss the main areas I just am unsure how to proceed.
Insulation- I would plan to insulate this barn if it is getting good use and seems to be providing a fun space for the kids to play. I remember putting on a stocking cap, 2 hooded sweatshirts and light gloves to shoot basketball in my driveway in the winter so I feel like maybe we could get away from insulating and heating?? I do respect on those bitter cold Iowa days we would not be using the gym but I feel like maybe 70 percent of the year we could use it and avoid having to heat such a huge open space?
If not how do I heat? All electric property but could bring in LP.
I was planning on installing one of the big *** fans to help with the climate in the barn. Also with the money I would save on insulation I could use for flooring options etc.
I am quoted about 17,000 for R19 rolled insulation and a metal liner on the walls.
Frost wall- I am thinking of having an insulated frost wall added just in case I decide to later heat the barn. Seem wise?
Should I just insulate and line the ceiling of the barn for now? Then later if we decide it would help then do it all?
Condensation/humidity....would insulating and lining the entire barn without a heat or cool source be a better move or leaving it uninsulated until I decide to add a heat source. A thought would be maybe insulating the entire barn would supply enough warmth to provide more use in the winter? Rambling because I am scared to understand how to heat such a big open space...any help with the above, gym floors, ideas etc would be GREAT. Have a few weeks to decide if we want to get the build scheduled before winter.
Thanks!!

 

[matt_i]

My .02 is to leave it uninsulated, but invest in overhead tube-style radiant heating using the LP system. I think trying to heat enough air to fill all of that "cube" is going to get out-of-control-expensive. But the radiant will heat people and objects that make it more comfortable, the analogy is the feel of the warm sun on your back on a winter day.

My experience with playing winter basketball outdoors is a) there's always snow in the way and b) the cold dead ball is like a stone. You solved one problem with the roofed area. The second problem could be solved by making some kind of insulated hot-box which you could heat with a light bulb, etc, and keep a rotating stream of extra balls warming up.

I would sheet the end of the building under the basket with osb because air balls and errant passes, etc, are going to dent the metal, inside or out.

 

[midwestman23]

Thanks for your 2 cents Matt. I need the input from people that know more! if I do your method of heating do you think I should insulate and line the ceiling? Just my thought would be doing that with the use of a big fan on the ceiling may be wise. Of course with the walls uninsulated there will be loss but may at least keep the heat from escaping up and out. I thought about slowly working my way around the barn with insulation and OSB to prevent dents as I want there to be few rules for play in the barn. Any more input would be great

 

[stm317]

If you'll be heating it, or think that it's a possibility in the future, then insulation will pay for itself really quickly. It will also make the building more comfortable in the warm months so that you're not standing in a big oven.

If it were my building, Id prioritize it and approach it in stages.
Stage 1:
I'd focus on insulating and finishing the ceiling first. That's where it's most effective, and will give you the most noticeable improvement in the cold months and the warm months. It should be your highest priority.
Stage 2:
Then, I'd put 1-2" of rigid foam in the walls. Pole barns are pretty "loose" and can get very drafty. Foam is great at stopping wind/drafts which means a building with R10 foam can feel like it has R19-ish fiberglass.
I live in central Indiana (similar climate to IA), and the 1.5" polyiso foam in my walls made a huge difference in comfort in my building in the cool months. It also is better at reducing noise than fiberglass, which might be nice if kids are always playing in the building.
Stage 3:
At that point (ceiling fully insulated and walls with a windbreak/bit of R value) I think I'd use it for awhile to see if it meets your needs. It's easy to add fiberglass in the walls if desired after the foam is in place, and before the wall material goes on. The fiberglass can also be more effective if it's only insulating rather than trying to insulate and reduce drafts at the same time.
Stage 4:
Apply your wall material. Add heating/cooling if desired. Enjoy!

 

[midwestman23]

Thanks STM! I will prioritize them to insulate and finish the ceiling as part of the initial build. I think our code requires that if we use spray foam it must be covered due to risk of fire? I believe that is why I was looking at rolled bat. If I do hold off on insulation on the walls for now maybe I can save a bit and then do foam when we are ready in a year or 2.

 

[stm317]

Spray foam is great, but I was suggesting 4x8' rigid foam panels. They're usually 90% as effective as spray foam, but cost about 60% of what spray foam does. And, it's easy enough that most homeowners can cut/hang it themselves without special equipment, which can save additional money.
They're available with foil facing, which might be acceptable as a covering to your local code enforcement (obviously consult them first).

Check your local craigslist. Many regions have resellers that specialize in insulation and sell for a good bit less than the home improvement stores.

 

[midwestman23]

I found this at our local Menards Johns Manville Foil Faced Polyiso Foam Insulation 1" x 4' x 8' R-6 for about 13 dollars a panel. My quick calculations are it would be about 1,200 dollars for each side with less being on the garage doors side. Would you stack two of these on top of each other for a 2 inch layer? I have never installed any of this but will have rolling stairs so may be pretty simple for me to do and come in much less than what the builders are quoting me for r19 insulation. It will be less insulation but something. I appreciate any ideas and feedback.

 

[midwestman23]

My bad I found 2 inch at menards also. Would it need to be nailed in? if so how would that happen? This seems like a simple, easy idea to start!

 

[midwestman23]

Do you think I would need to install a moisture/vapor barrier to it as well? Thanks!

 

[stm317]

I'd definitely have the walls wrapped in Tyvek before the metal goes on. It's fairly cheap, and it's far easier to do it that way compared to trying to do it from the inside after the building is done. It will give you a nicer building for very little cost and effort. It's important to keep as much moisture on the outside of the wall as possible. It's also nicer if you ever have to remove sections of the metal for any reason.

As for the foam panels, the polyiso is great. It's basically closed cell spray foam in sheet form. People all approach it differently, but I'll tell you how I approached mine. The framing on most buildings is installed with the widest face flush against the outside of the poles. Since the framing is usually 2x4s or 2x6s, that creates a 1.5" gap between the outside of the poles and the inside of your metal (or Tyvek if installed). I bought 1.5" thick foam panels, and ripped them lengthwise to fit between my girts. Because they're 1.5" thick, they slid right into the 1.5" gap between the poles and the Tyvek in my walls. My poles are 8ft on center and the sheets are 8 ft long, so the poles hold them in place. This method means that the insulation takes up zero space in the building itself, and gives me a full 5.5" to the inner face of the poles for additional R19 insulation at a later date if I want.

Menards has 1.5" sheets priced around $23/sheet. I found a place on Craigslist that was selling them for $16/sheet. It's worth checking around to see if you can find similar deals.

 

[stm317]

The other option might be choosing a thicker board, like 2", and just fastening them directly to the inside of the framing. This would let you skip some measuring/cutting and save a bit of time. But it makes it harder to add additional insulation later because it would take up some of the wall thickness.

You can also layer the panels if you want, or combine the two methods to have as much insulation as you want. It all depends on your goals and budget.