Need Advice On Sump Pump Float Switch

[msmit62]

This question is actually for my house but the principle is the same as a garage so I thought it was ok to ask. Plus I know you guys are a source of much wisdom and experience! We moved into an old farm house about 7 years ago and the sump pump runs constantly. It seems that about once each year or every other year I have to replace the float switch because the contacts start wearing so it doesn't kick on. When this happens, the back-up pump kicks on and starts beeping which tells me the primary pump didn't kick on. The sump pump at my previous house, which was my first house, never kicked on so "sump pump maintenance" is new for me. My question is this: is an annual or every other year replacement cycle considered normal wear? Is there a more robust float switch available? I have a cast iron Barnes SP50VFX pump with a Barnes 103476 float switch. See attachments for details. Thank in advance for any suggestions and advice.

 

[Shiftless]

We moved into an old farm house about 7 years ago and the sump pump runs constantly.

When you say “constantly” do you mean it cycles on and off every few minutes all day and all night every day of the year?

 

[Bondo]

We moved into an old farm house about 7 years ago and the sump pump runs constantly.

Ayuh,.... It makes more sense, to me, that you oughta regrade outside, to stop so much water from coming in, in the 1st place, rather than burning up the switches,.....

 

[msmit62]

When you say “constantly” do you mean it cycles on and off every few minutes all day and all night every day of the year?

The flow into the crock varies throughout the year but yes it seems to run constantly year round. Right now the water table is pretty high so I'd say it turns on once every 5-10 minutes or so. I haven't clocked it so that's just a guess. The previous owner had a 2' wide trench cut into the basement and had drain tile installed and it drains into the crock. This is where the water is coming from. I don't think there is any drain tile around the exterior of the foundation. Overall, it's a pretty dry basement for being a "Michigan Basement". The house deed says the house was built in 1900.

 

[Sherk]

Be thankful you have a decent cast iron pump and haven't had to replace that yet with how much it's running. I had to replace several pumps at my old house before I finally got out of there, although at the end my constantly was actually almost never cycling off... with 2 3/4 HP pumps. House built in drought years (2006 iirc) in an old swamp that I don't think the drain commission had something right with. Never should have had a basement. Michigan too.

One of them was installed after water started leaking around the floor to wall joints (this is with drain tile inside). It reported out weekly how much water was pumped. Keep in mind this is half.

 

[johnre]

That amounts to about one complete cycle every 54 seconds. No wonder the contacts are wearing out.

I can't believe that gallons pumped estimate is for just one week - that amounts to 47 gallons each pump cycle, or almost a gallon a second. Can't believe that.

Any chance to increase the holding capacity of the sump well, so that it runs longer each time but at a higher duty cycle? It will be the same "on" time roughly, just fewer start / stop cycles. That's much easier on the switched contacts, and also the motor.

 

[nadogail]

Mercury Switches seem to work well with sump pumps. Contact life can be extended by having the float switch as a pilot switching a relay rated for the current draw of the pump.

 

[msmit62]

Looking at my maintenance records, the existing float switch (the one that was there when we moved in) started to act up so on 4/24/2021 I replaced the sump pump and float switch with a brand new Barnes cast iron pump (same model that was removed to simply installation). Since then, I've replaced float switches on 11/13/2022 and 4/20/2024. The reason I replaced the existing pump on 4/24/2021 as well is because I didn't know how old it was and we were neck deep in massive renovations so I just wanted to install a new pump and new float switch to minimize future stress. Now that I'm looking at those dates, it's interesting that the original float switch didn't misbehave between fall 2017 when we moved in and April 2021. Makes me think I did something wrong…

 

[ycgoat]

I would;

1. try to increase the range of the float switch with a longer rod maybe, (I think this was Johnre alluded to this above) so that the pump comes on at the highest possible water level, and runs a little longer to get more water out per cycle.
2. The switch is likely failing due to arcing across the contacts from switching under load (unless its just rusting shut). A separate Heavy duty relay as mentioned by Nadagail would help. Theoretically a capacitor across the contacts can reduce the damage to the contacts due to switching under load.
3. Try to direct water run off away from the house such as gutters with extended drains on the down spouts to get the water away from the basement.

 

[BombShelter]

Most of those old homes were built on pretty dry land, your issue is more likely grade-level water (rain) moving through mortar that has turned to sand, unless you see it all the time even when it hasn't rained for a while. A lot of "waterproofers" will tell you that you have a high water table but the reality is, it's usually 12'+ below your basement level, you could check with the city engineer to confirm where they've plotted it.

Grading won't help unless there's standing water and low spots around the foundation, otherwise there wouldn't be a billion dollar "waterproofing" industry. My other home was a little bit newer, the wall was poured concrete with larger rocks in the mix and a concrete skim coating over the rough surface which was falling off in several areas and water was coming in during rain. I fixed the crumbling concrete, painted everything with Thoroseal, now made by BASF, it's a concrete mix paint and went over all of it with Drylock Paint. Then I had the local waterproofing guys inject bentonite around the exterior which works great with rubble or stone walls.

As far as your pump, maybe lube up the moving parts really well, the water minerals tend to bind the movement along with rust. I'd be testing it on a regular basis just to make sure it's moving feely and turning the pump on. Most of the switches can do thousands of cycle without an issue.

 

[msmit62]

I would;

1. try to increase the range of the float switch with a longer rod maybe, (I think this was Johnre alluded to this above) so that the pump comes on at the highest possible water level, and runs a little longer to get more water out per cycle.
2. The switch is likely failing due to arcing across the contacts from switching under load (unless its just rusting shut). A separate Heavy duty relay as mentioned by Nadagail would help. Theoretically a capacitor across the contacts can reduce the damage to the contacts due to switching under load.
3. Try to direct water run off away from the house such as gutters with extended drains on the down spouts to get the water away from the basement.

Those are all good thoughts, thank-you.

1. I'll have to check if Barnes offers a longer stem for the float. The end has a built-in magnet so I assume this is a part that I couldn't fabricate myself.

2. The contacts are corroding...it reminds me of an old set of ignition points. I cut one of the old float switches open to inspect and it is worn from arcing.

3. Gutters are on the to-do list and the budget is the limiting factor in this case.

 

[msmit62]

Most of those old homes were built on pretty dry land, your issue is more likely grade-level water (rain) moving through mortar that has turned to sand, unless you see it all the time even when it hasn't rained for a while. A lot of "waterproofers" will tell you that you have a high water table but the reality is, it's usually 12'+ below your basement level, you could check with the city engineer to confirm where they've plotted it.

Grading won't help unless there's standing water and low spots around the foundation, otherwise there wouldn't be a billion dollar "waterproofing" industry. My other home was a little bit newer, the wall was poured concrete with larger rocks in the mix and a concrete skim coating over the rough surface which was falling off in several areas and water was coming in during rain. I fixed the crumbling concrete, painted everything with Thoroseal, now made by BASF, it's a concrete mix paint and went over all of it with Drylock Paint. Then I had the local waterproofing guys inject bentonite around the exterior which works great with rubble or stone walls.

As far as your pump, maybe lube up the moving parts really well, the water minerals tend to bind the movement along with rust. I'd be testing it on a regular basis just to make sure it's moving feely and turning the pump on. Most of the switches can do thousands of cycle without an issue.

We do have a pretty high water table here, at least that's what people in the area have told me. Throughout the year I don't think water ever stops flowing into the crock but it does speed up and slow down depending on the season. Maybe these two examples will help give you an idea: (1) A few years ago we were ramping up to have a pole barn built and were trying to decide between two locations on the property. The local builder said one of the two locations looked lower to him so he came over and drilled a test bore into the soil...probably 18" diameter by a few feet deep and it didn't take long for the water to bubble up close to the top. Due to skyrocketing inflation we chose not hit pause on the pole barn. (2) Last fall I had a sink installed in the unattached garage and the plumber and I were discussing details. I wanted the hot and cold lines running from the house to the garage buried deep enough so they were safe from freezing. The plumber suggested 5' deep. After the lines were installed I asked him if he got an honest 5' deep and he said "the lines are IN the water. We got down about 4' and the trench flooded." That was late last summer/early fall.

 

[TonyG109]

You may want to check into an electronic switch. HydroCheck is one brand. I recently installed one and love the flexibility it gives you setting up the high/low points.

It essentially works by using two electronic probes attached to wire leads. One is for the high/activate level and one for the low/shutoff level. The probes turn a piggyback outlet on and off. Just plug the pump into the piggyback outlet. If your pump already has a float switch, zip tie it up so it's always on. The beauty of this system is that there's virtually no limit to the float range.

Most pumps only have a float range of around 4" or 5" as did mine. With the HydroCheck mine is now about 12". The pump doesn't cycle nearly as often now.

Long term reliability is yet to be proven. I plan on cleaning the probes with a Scotch-Brite pad once a year or so.

 

[msmit62]

That HydroCheck is an interesting idea. I had something similar at my old house: the crock in the floor was just a containment unit (ie no drain tile) and the clothes washer would pump into that and then the sump pump would, in turn, pump that water up a few feet into the drain pipe. I had purchased a sensor similar to the HydroCheck (I think from Menards) and plugged the washer into it and put the sensor in the crock above the sump pump float. This way, if the sensor detected water then it would know the sump pump wasn't working and it would shut off the washer to prevent flooding the laundry room floor.

 

[BombShelter]

It's fairly rare but you are really close to the lake and if you dig a hole and it's filling with water, that's not a good sign. Most of that ground is fairly porous sand but if you ever want a shallow well, it's pretty easy to hit water quickly. If your seeing the water move through the vertical portion of the all, I'd look into bentonite waterproofing, it stops the water and helps keep the wall from falling apart more.

 

[msmit62]

I might have to look into the bentonite option once the budget permits.

 

[kmcc927]

Another vote for Hydrocheck, lasted 10+ years of constant cycling. Being able to set high/low points is huge.
Also where are you discharging the water? If it’s being dumped just outside the foundation you are doing a lot of expensive recycling…. I had a coworker that was burning up cheap pumps every 6-9 months, when he piped the discharge 50’ to a county ditch within 6 months he had cob webs in his sump.

 

[u3b3rg33k]

@msmit62 have you considered putting in a tiny pump that just barely keeps up with your flow and then leaving the bigger pumps to handle the excess? that could reduce cycling to near zero. i'm thinking a tiny submersible condensate pump/float.

something like this:

1-ABS Series Shallow Pan Condensate Pump

The 1-ABS shallow pan condensate pump offers low on and off levels and is ideal for in-pan placement for condensate removal.

www.littlegiant.com

might not even need to adjust the other floats.

 

[msmit62]

Another vote for Hydrocheck, lasted 10+ years of constant cycling. Being able to set high/low points is huge.
Also where are you discharging the water? If it’s being dumped just outside the foundation you are doing a lot of expensive recycling…. I had a coworker that was burning up cheap pumps every 6-9 months, when he piped the discharge 50’ to a county ditch within 6 months he had cob webs in his sump.

I think it's being pumped into the ditch on the other side of our street. I say "think" because I've never put dye in the crock and then watched for dye in the ditch. A rough guess is 75'-100' away.

 

[u3b3rg33k]

I think it's being pumped into the ditch on the other side of our street. I say "think" because I've never put dye in the crock and then watched for dye in the ditch. A rough guess is 75'-100' away.

it's rare for private pipes to cross roads. usually they'll end in a ditch on your side of the street, and then it drains away with the rest of the surface water.

 

[msmit62]

Would it be ok to use dish soap instead of dye? We might have dye or food coloring in the house but I know we have dish soap. If soap is ok then I can check tonight and report back tomorrow.

 

[u3b3rg33k]

I'm not sure if dish soap will be useful. might be a great way to make bubbles in your sump!

 

[ycgoat]

My neighbors washing machine runs a ditch between our houses and when its running you can see the bubbles snd hear the water or air bubbling up

 

[msmit62]

OK, I'll try it with bubbles and will report back. If we happen to have dye in the house would it be better to use that?

 

[TonyG109]

If you use soap to trace, I hope you don't harm any plants/trees/critters. Typical kitchen dye or clothing dye is not the thing to use. It's best to buy some fluorescent water tracing dye ($35) and a small UV flashlight ($10). Put the dye in the crock towards evening when its getting dark and check around outside with the flashlight. The fluorescent dye will really stand out when you hit it with the flashlight! If you use a bright colored dye, you may be able to spot it in the daylight.

 

[roc_on_the_rocks]

If you use soap to trace, I hope you don't harm any plants/trees/critters. Typical kitchen dye or clothing dye is not the thing to use. It's best to buy some fluorescent water tracing dye ($35) and a small UV flashlight ($10). Put the dye in the crock towards evening when its getting dark and check around outside with the flashlight. The fluorescent dye will really stand out when you hit it with the flashlight! If you use a bright colored dye, you may be able to spot it in the daylight.

Thanks Tony, learned something today.

 

[msmit62]

Tony, that's a great idea. I didn't know there was such a thing.