Need advice on wifi control for my well pump

[graybeardnw]

I have a well pump at my primary residence with the relay box and holding tank in the garage. I just installed an EV charger for my new Volvo which I have set to charge at 35 amps at midnight. I want to disable the well pump from midnight to 6 a.m. to avoid having too much load on the circuit to the garage. I've identified a Shelly 1PM Mini Gen3 smart switch https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CRRT6HCB?tag=atomicindus08-20 as I read its compatible with my Home Assistance server. The well pump relay box shows the Line 1 and Line 2 leads coming from the well tank pressure switch and my thinking is to intercept the black Line 1 circuit to to Shelly 0 input and SW output. The leads to the well pump show Black Red and Yellow, which of these should I use to power the Shelly? See photo below with my annotation.
Any advice is much appreciated.

 

[dcg9381]

Interesting. I haven't used that device, so you're going to use "home automation" controls on the timing to intercept and disable the well pump pressure switch?

First issue I see is that the "switch" you've picked is only good for 8A. Most well pump switches are not relays, they're the full switch, so they're passing "breaker power" (amps) to the well control. Unless your pump is breakered at 10A or less, this won't get it done.

We don't know if you have a 120V pump or 240V pump. To determine this, we'd need to know if you have a "double" well pump breaker or if it's in a single space. Wire color can be misleading and "yellow" means nothing to me.

Alternate suggestions:
1) Do you need to do this at all? If you're not pulling water midnight - 6am, it's a non-issue.
2) Put a simple 240V timer on the well pump. If your "home assistant" is like Alexa (Amazon) things go to **** when the internet goes out.
3) There are some "newer" devices that are designed to split things like "dryer outlets" 1 - into 2 - and have a priority.

My guess is that 35 amps (setting) is probably 28 amps continuous (but it varies). 35 is an "odd" setting. And what ACTUALLY controls your car's EVSE is the car itself.. Many cars can be programmed alternately with schedules and amp draw.

How far "under" 35A do you need to be able to run both?

 

[BrandonV]

Image finally loaded for me. Pentair controller?

I'd use a dedicated contactor to just kill power to the whole controller (L1/L2) for this if you were going to do anything. No weird Chinese relays. Especially not at the current rating @dcg9381 pointed out.

With a contactor you can use the Shelly or a regular WiFi/Zigbee/Z-Wave switch to control things.

 

[graybeardnw]

Interesting. I haven't used that device, so you're going to use "home automation" controls on the timing to intercept and disable the well pump pressure switch?

First issue I see is that the "switch" you've picked is only good for 8A. Most well pump switches are not relays, they're the full switch, so they're passing "breaker power" (amps) to the well control. Unless your pump is breakered at 10A or less, this won't get it done.

We don't know if you have a 120V pump or 240V pump. To determine this, we'd need to know if you have a "double" well pump breaker or if it's in a single space. Wire color can be misleading and "yellow" means nothing to me.

Alternate suggestions:
1) Do you need to do this at all? If you're not pulling water midnight - 6am, it's a non-issue.
2) Put a simple 240V timer on the well pump. If your "home assistant" is like Alexa (Amazon) things go to **** when the internet goes out.
3) There are some "newer" devices that are designed to split things like "dryer outlets" 1 - into 2 - and have a priority.

My guess is that 35 amps (setting) is probably 28 amps continuous (but it varies). 35 is an "odd" setting. And what ACTUALLY controls your car's EVSE is the car itself.. Many cars can be programmed alternately with schedules and amp draw.

How far "under" 35A do you need to be able to run both?

I understand, but the pressure switch is low amp 120 to activate the 240v well pump. I agree that this may be overkill since 12-6 am we are not using any water, this is more for peace of mind though. Thanks for your input

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I understand, but the pressure switch is low amp 120 to activate the 240v well pump. I agree that this may be overkill since 12-6 am we are not using any water, this is more for peace of mind though. Thanks for your input

nope it isnt since the 240v line-in for the pump controller is coming from the PS. the full load current of the pump is running thru the pressure switch. That is the most common setup for well pumps.

only way to have low current running thru the PS is with a contactor and the PS is only powering the coil in the contactor. you will see this with 3Ø well pumps. you dont have that.

Looks like you have a 1.5HP well pump. While the FLA will most likely be 8a or less, the in-rush current will be 4x-8x that and I highly doubt that shelly mini switch is designed to handle the in-rush current of a motor especially considering its max current rating is 8a.

why not just get a timer as suggested above. the mechanical ones usually have a higher in-rush current rating for small motors.

or make sure you have no leaks and dont use the water between 12-6am... KISS

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Interesting. I haven't used that device, so you're going to use "home automation" controls on the timing to intercept and disable the well pump pressure switch?

First issue I see is that the "switch" you've picked is only good for 8A. Most well pump switches are not relays, they're the full switch, so they're passing "breaker power" (amps) to the well control. Unless your pump is breakered at 10A or less, this won't get it done.

We don't know if you have a 120V pump or 240V pump. To determine this, we'd need to know if you have a "double" well pump breaker or if it's in a single space. Wire color can be misleading and "yellow" means nothing to me.

pump HP and voltage rating is listed on the sticker in the upper right corner of the pic of the controller.

Alternate suggestions:
1) Do you need to do this at all? If you're not pulling water midnight - 6am, it's a non-issue.
2) Put a simple 240V timer on the well pump. If your "home assistant" is like Alexa (Amazon) things go to **** when the internet goes out.
3) There are some "newer" devices that are designed to split things like "dryer outlets" 1 - into 2 - and have a priority.

My guess is that 35 amps (setting) is probably 28 amps continuous (but it varies). 35 is an "odd" setting. And what ACTUALLY controls your car's EVSE is the car itself.. Many cars can be programmed alternately with schedules and amp draw.

How far "under" 35A do you need to be able to run both?

this. a mechanical timer will have far higher in-rush current ratings than a cheapo chicom relay. also, as you pointed out, internet (or data center) goes down, no water for you....

 

[graybeardnw]

nope it isnt since the 240v line in for the pump controller is coming from the PS. the full load current of the pump is running thru the pressure switch. That is the most common setup for well pumps.

only way to have low current running thru the PS is with a contactor and the PS is only powering the coil in the contactor. you will see this with 3Ø well pumps. you dont have that.

Looks like you have a 1.5HP well pump. While the FLA will most likely be 8a or less, the in-rush current will be 4x-8x that and I highly doubt that shelly mini switch is designed to handle the in-rush current of a motor especially considering its max current rating is 8a.

why not just get a timer as suggested above. the mechanical ones usually have a higher in-rush current rating for small motors.

or make sure you have no leaks and dont use the water between 12-6am... KISS

Thanks @wyliesdiesels I was making some very ignorant assumptions! So I'll abandon this little project and save a bunch of time and frustration

 

[infinkc]

I see they have a 16a version, would use that instead.
As for the line input, seems there is probably a connection at the pressure switch that has the mains coming in. You don’t have that pictured.

All the connections for the WiFi unit should be connected there.

At the pressure switch you should have the mains coming in, tap those to power the unit.
Then there should be 2 wires going to the control box to your line1/2, break one of those connections, one coming off the pressure switch to the unit and the other back to the control box.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CQCNKVD4?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I see they have a 16a version, would use that instead.

As for the line input, seems there is probably a connection at the pressure switch that has the mains coming in. You don’t have that pictured.

All the connections for the WiFi unit should be connected there.

At the pressure switch you should have the mains coming in, tap those to power the unit.
Then there should be 2 wires going to the control box to your line1/2, break one of those connections, one coming off the pressure switch to the unit and the other back to the control box.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CQCNKVD4?tag=atomicindus08-20

almost all small domestic well pumps have the incoming power going to the pressure switch first. Otherwise, you would need an additional contactor that the PS would be controlling. you dont run power to the control box first since it does not have a contactor to control switching of incoming power. thats handled by the PS.

PS- I used to work for a pump company doing service calls.

 

[N_Jay]

There are wifi controllers for pool pumps

 

[Denwood]

I use this 240 V on our induction cook top for automation as it returns power use as well as the on/off functions. https://aeotec.com/products/aeoteo-heavy-duty-switch/

Rated to 40A@240V

It's Zwave, so you'd need to have a hub to control it. I'm using Hubitat as it's local control (no need for web connection or WIFI) and quite reliable.