Need Advice

[seabeejason]

Hey folks! New member here! Came across this forum while browsing the web for garage ideas. I got lots of questions. First I'll describe what I'm wanting & my situation. We just moved to Arkansas in July 2018 (new job) & purchased a three bedroom home on 10 acres. We are already investing in some livestock, so we can sell eggs, produce, goat soap, etc. With a goal of getting into minature heifers in 2-3 years. Now, our plan has been to build a metal building with a two car sized work area, two small bedrooms, small kitchenette, small basic bathroom with stand-up shower, & a loft area with an office above the bedrooms. This plan WAS to have it built in 2 years when we could pay cash for it. However, we just found out today that my wife is pregnant. So, now we will need that third bedroom available in 8 months. I absolutely must have a quiet office. I do web conferences & talk to customers all the time. Being able to do my job is paramount.

As you see, things just got real. Haha. We are happy, but now we need more room. My rationale for the two small bedrooms was so family could have a place to stay when they come see us. I figure two small bedrooms is about the same cost as one larger one. But, I could also do a downstairs office with a futon & then just do one other small bedroom, thereby cutting out the loft area in an effort to reduce costs. That would also keep us from having to insulate the whole shop. Reducing costs even more. Our home is $265k in terms of appraised value. I don't want to "over build" & make a bad investment. So I want to be careful about making the shop too extravagant. In the end I want this to result in adding more equity to the property beyond what we spent.

Here's the last part of the equation. Finances. We obviously have a mortgage, which is not a big deal. We are very aggressively paying off debt with a debt free goal (except mortgage) by early 2020. Which, as it's going right now, might actually be reached ahead of schedule. I really want to pay cash. I'd love to, but I may need this thing built by the end of 2019. I could probably get by for a few months by sticking my "office" out in our attached garage. That will likely happen to be honest. I'll figure it out. Regarding financing, if it comes down to it, can these things be financed at a good rate (under 6%)? My credit is outstanding. One thing I refuse to do if I look at financing is pay a high interest rate.

Here's my thoughts on options.....

1. Build the shop we wanted all along & finance the whole thing. Shop we always wanted is done, pay it off ASAP (1-2 years).
2. Build a smaller shop with an office, one bedroom, no loft area. Still financing, but less cost. Probably better in terms of an investment too.
3. Build shop in option number 1, but only finish the office. Leaving the extra bedrooms, bathroom, etc only framed out with plumbing & electrical ready for when we can pay cash to finish it. Still financing.
4. Buy a portable building to use as an office, insulate it myself, run an extension cord to it, use a portable heater/AC unit. My restroom will be the bush outside (free). Build a shop later. Downside is that $5k or so gets wasted on a portable building we may not need later.

Option 4 is very enticing. I know this is a ton of info, but I need advice. I want to know what you guys recommend in terms of floor plans. Estimated total cost, etc. If you did finance, what product you used & the rate. I want the biggest bang for my buck in terms of the shop space as well. Any other friendly advice is welcome too.

TIA

 

[seabeejason]

Discussing this with the wife. We already decided on the portable building. I'll be all in at $5k to $8k with electric. Best of all, we pay cash. Wife said we can use the building as a farm office once the shop is done in a couple years. So, that part is solved. Sometimes writing things out & thinking of options really helps. Haha.

Still need advice on floor plans & total cost. Thanks!

 

[kd3pc]

before you celebrate, you may want to check with the local zoning/permits office that has jurisdiction to see if they "allow".

$5K will likely be a down payment on the project given the description of what you are seeking. We have tons of portable building shops in the area and the small ones, usually playhouse....start at $5K, just the walls and a roof, every door, window, etc is an added cost.

bests.

 

[ScottsGT]

I’d do as your have said. Put in the small office and make it a permanent work place. Keep in mind the tax write off as well since it is for work. Actually lowers the cost in the long run. Even after your shop is built, you still have your quiet place to go to.

As far as building the garage with live in space, check all local building codes. Friends did this and costs were much higher than expected due to fire code and safe living codes. Ex: double layers of Sheetrock between garage and living space, wall all the way to the roof for fire protection and sealing off and car exhaust from the garage area, all gaps sealed, ductwork above living area had to be metal duct, not flex. Wiring also had some specific requirements as well.

 

[seabeejason]

before you celebrate, you may want to check with the local zoning/permits office that has jurisdiction to see if they "allow".

$5K will likely be a down payment on the project given the description of what you are seeking. We have tons of portable building shops in the area and the small ones, usually playhouse....start at $5K, just the walls and a roof, every door, window, etc is an added cost.

bests.

I priced some nice portable buildings already. Looking at $5k or so for a good sized one with windows, small front porch, etc. I figure total investment will be about $7k or so. In terms of zoning & permits, that is a non-issue here. I live far out in the county & it's Arkansas. They will pretty well allow anything here. When I have the shop built, it'll be completely up to code. No worries there either. It'll be done right.

 

[seabeejason]

I’d do as your have said. Put in the small office and make it a permanent work place. Keep in mind the tax write off as well since it is for work. Actually lowers the cost in the long run. Even after your shop is built, you still have your quiet place to go to.

Didn't think about the write off! Thanks!

 

[Oggy]

Discussing this with the wife. We already decided on the portable building. I'll be all in at $5k to $8k with electric. Best of all, we pay cash. Wife said we can use the building as a farm office once the shop is done in a couple years. So, that part is solved. Sometimes writing things out & thinking of options really helps. Haha.

Still need advice on floor plans & total cost. Thanks!

This is the best plan.

Happy spouse, happy house.

The best advice you'll get is to build as big as you can, you'll find use for the space! I thought my garage was big enough when we bought our house, I was wrong.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[doublearon98]

Might ask where you live in Arkansas?

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[rburke65]

Welcome seebeejason to The Garage Journal from Ohio! Congratulations on the new house.

 

[James-W]

Welcome to the forum from Wisconsin.

 

[rlwhitetr3b]

The extension cord might not be the best idea. IIRC code says temporary hoop ups can only be used for a few months. Direct bury romex should be doable and not too expensive.

 

[Matti]

I would sink the money into the shop you always wanted if you need it soon. Finish it now or later. Two years is a very short time span. If you said it was a 5-10 year finance plan that would be different. When the baby comes you will have less time so sooner might be better. With the portable office its money spent on something that might not be ideal. You will end up with 3 spaces...maybe less than ideal unless you can sell it later. Bylaws could change the approach obviously. If you have only been there a short while I would consider waiting a bit to make changes. Maybe adding onto the house is a better way to go. Some things to consider. Just my $0.02 of course.

 

[KEH]

I'll answer a question you didn't ask. I don't recommend minature cattle due mainly due to the poor resale value. Go to a stockyard and watch the cattle sale and you will find that the minatures don't sell well. Cattle sell by the pound generally the larger the better. There are exceptions, such as overly fat stock, but generally the small breeds don't sell well. Exotics such as Scottish highland cows don't bring a good price either. Now, you said you work at home and need peace and quiet. If you want to get milk from the cows, they need to be milked twice a day, 7 days a week. What ever kind of livestock you get, remember good fences are your first priority. Chasing cows around the countryside is time consuming and frustrating. Chickens for meat and eggs sound good, the quality of the meat and eggs that are home grown is much better than that bought in the stores, but don't expect to make much money from the project. The quality of beef so raised is usually better also. If you get cattle, PM me or post back for advice on handling facilities.

KEH

 

[seabeejason]

I would sink the money into the shop you always wanted if you need it soon. Finish it now or later. Two years is a very short time span. If you said it was a 5-10 year finance plan that would be different. When the baby comes you will have less time so sooner might be better. With the portable office its money spent on something that might not be ideal. You will end up with 3 spaces...maybe less than ideal unless you can sell it later. Bylaws could change the approach obviously. If you have only been there a short while I would consider waiting a bit to make changes. Maybe adding onto the house is a better way to go. Some things to consider. Just my $0.02 of course.

Yeah, we already changed our minds yet again. I'm sure over the next 12 months or so we will waiver back & forth on a few things. The small portable building idea would soak up at least $7k, which could be put to good use on our future shop. So, now we are going to put a laser focus on our financial situation to better position ourselves. Then reevaluate our options in 6 months or so.

 

[seabeejason]

I'll answer a question you didn't ask. I don't recommend minature cattle due mainly due to the poor resale value. Go to a stockyard and watch the cattle sale and you will find that the minatures don't sell well. Cattle sell by the pound generally the larger the better. There are exceptions, such as overly fat stock, but generally the small breeds don't sell well. Exotics such as Scottish highland cows don't bring a good price either. Now, you said you work at home and need peace and quiet. If you want to get milk from the cows, they need to be milked twice a day, 7 days a week. What ever kind of livestock you get, remember good fences are your first priority. Chasing cows around the countryside is time consuming and frustrating. Chickens for meat and eggs sound good, the quality of the meat and eggs that are home grown is much better than that bought in the stores, but don't expect to make much money from the project. The quality of beef so raised is usually better also. If you get cattle, PM me or post back for advice on handling facilities.

KEH

I know some folks that do very well with miniature cattle. I don't think they sell them at auction though. If I were to do that I'd just grab some black cattle & raise those instead. Which we might do. Not sure yet. We are NOT doing dairy cows. Fences here are good. The whole property is fenced & we have two separate pastures. We do plan on doing chickens as well & selling the eggs. That'll happen sometime in early to mid 2019.

 

[jumbojak]

What sort of fences are up on the property? Barbed wire, electric, high tensile, high tensile electric, wood? What sort of clearance do you have outside the perimeter for inspection and repair? There's a lot of planning that goes into a good fence. I've spent enough time chasing cows to really appreciate a good fence.

 

[MikeYC]

I know some folks that do very well with miniature cattle. I don't think they sell them at auction though. If I were to do that I'd just grab some black cattle & raise those instead. Which we might do. Not sure yet. We are NOT doing dairy cows. Fences here are good. The whole property is fenced & we have two separate pastures. We do plan on doing chickens as well & selling the eggs. That'll happen sometime in early to mid 2019.

A Seabee?

Sent from my SM-T350 using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[jd_1138]

What about building a little cabin with 2 small guest rooms and an office? Because mixing shop space and living space can be problematic in terms of codes and also depending on what you're working on, the smells might not be fun for your guests.

So instead of buying a portable building, put that money towards a small office/cabin outbuilding. If the same contractor does the shop, might be some cost savings. Another option is to put the office in the shop so you can write it off the taxes, and then do the 2 room guest cabin/tiny house with no office. Though I assume Uncle Sam will only let you write off the office portion of the shop and not the whole shebang.

Congrats on the little one coming.

 

[KEH]

Sounds like you have the cattle business all thought out. I wouldn't plan on the cows getting tame enough to lead on a trailer with a bucket of feed, but feeding them by hand helps greatly in getting them tame. I did catch a young bull that had horns and an attitude in the open pasture by putting feed on a trailer and gradually moving the feed to the front of the trailer, then shutting the gates on him after he got all the way into the trailer, but I didn't want to get in a pen with him. If you decide to have a loading chute the theory is to have one that has a turn in it so the animal can't see the end until it is at the end and has to get on the trailer. A loading chute needs to be narrow, maybe 2 feet wide. A good procedure is to have the chute exiting the pen so that the animals get used to using it as part of the exit, then put the trailer at the end for loading.

Chickens: I commented that the yard raised chickens tasted better. When I was young we had chickens like most other people in the country and a lot of people in town. "Factory" chicken raising facilities became popular and the price on meat and eggs became cheap. My parents did the math and decided to quit chickens. My father was not too impressed with the store chickens and referred to them as "them old embalmed chickens." My oldest daughter keeps a few chickens and once bought some chicks that are the special commercial meat breed, Cornish Cross I think. She raised them in the yard where they could eat grass and bugs, then had them butchered and frozen. The meat was firm and tasty.

Good luck.

KEH

 

[rburke65]

Build what ya want now.....don’t wait. I built mine at 63 yo and I sho7ld have done it when I was 33 yo.

 

[JohnKal]

Congrats on the Baby!

Welcome to the forum.