Need advice!

[Kellywilhelm]

I’m building a house and need input on basic building 101. My architect wants to build 12’ ceilings and uses 2x6 boards in the walls (for a variety of reasons). I’m hearing that it’s WAY more expensive to use 2x6x12 versus 2x6x10 boards. Is it disproportionately more expensive (because of standard cuts or because it’s not a common cut) or is it just marginally more because it’s more material? I’m hearing different things from different people. Thanks!

 

[nadogail]

12 inch wide boards, because of their width, are more expensive per board foot than narrower lumber.

 

[Old Fart]

IMHO 12' ceilings are a bit high unless you're talking about a huge room. The longer a board is, the more expensive it is, simply because it requires a better log (fewer defects in its length). What is the architect's reasoning? You gotta remember, they are designing a monument to themselves using your money! I'd go 10' and call it good.
Besides, that's more space to heat and cool.

 

[Leaflessshadetree]

More expensive yes. Remember you are getting 20% more board (also insulation and coverings on both sides of the walls).
Dispropotionate, a little because there are fewer logs that can be cut into 12' boards.
Proportionately 8' would be a lot cheaper than 10'.

Is this the entire building or just a portion? How does the height of these walls affect the overall look and feel of the house.

 

[mike93lx]

I’m building a house and need input on basic building 101. My architect wants to build 12’ ceilings and uses 2x6 boards in the walls (for a variety of reasons). I’m hearing that it’s WAY more expensive to use 2x6x12 versus 2x6x10 boards. Is it disproportionately more expensive (because of standard cuts or because it’s not a common cut) or is it just marginally more because it’s more material? I’m hearing different things from different people. Thanks!

12' throughout the house? Or just a room?

My first floor is 9',second and third are 8'. I like those heights. Living room is cathedral, peaking at about 15ish. If I was doing a new build now, I would probably do the same except maybe 9' in the master so we could do a tray ceiling

 

[Kellywilhelm]

More expensive yes. Remember you are getting 20% more board (also insulation and coverings on both sides of the walls).
Dispropotionate, a little because there are fewer logs that can be cut into 12' boards.
Proportionately 8' would be a lot cheaper than 10'.

Is this the entire building or just a portion? How does the height of these walls affect the overall look and feel of the house.

OK… I don’t mind it being more expensive I was just being told by other people that it’s not a standard size so it’s a lot more expensive not just because it’s more wood but because of the labor or some thing… Sounds like that’s not the case.

The room is large… I think it’s 38‘ x 27‘ or something? he’s doing 12 foot ceilings with beams so it’s not going to feel cavernous, I hope!

 

[Kellywilhelm]

12 inch wide boards, because of their width, are more expensive per board foot than narrower lumber.

I was talking about the lengtt being 10 foot or 12 foot but based on other replies it does sound like it’s just proportionately more because there’s more wood not that it’s more because it’s a weird size.

 

[Kaizen]

you have a home depot there? Look up the difference x how many. Should not be much more for labor or anything else. damn man.......its your house so tell them what you want. If you are worried about 2 ft of studs you'll never make it to the end of this

That room is the size of most houses. geez

 

[Kellywilhelm]

IMHO 12' ceilings are a bit high unless you're talking about a huge room. The longer a board is, the more expensive it is, simply because it requires a better log (fewer defects in its length). What is the architect's reasoning? You gotta remember, they are designing a monument to themselves using your money! I'd go 10' and call it good.
Besides, that's more space to heat and cool.

It’s definitely a monument for him! I totally laughed at that one! I think the 12 foot ceilings partly are for how he wants the outside to look but he’s gking to put in beams so it won’t be too cavernous and the room is pretty large… I think he said it was 38‘ x 27‘ so he doesn’t want it to look short and squatty. I do want a cozy feel and I’m a little concerned about that high of ceilings but he promises it’s going to feel right. He’s an excellent/expensive! Architect and very well renowned in our area so I trust it is going to look fabulous I just want to make sure I can afford to heat it!!!

 

[Kellywilhelm]

you have a home depot there? Look up the difference x how many. Should not be much more for labor or anything else. damn man.......its your house so tell them what you want. If you are worried about 2 ft of studs you'll never make it to the end of this

That room is the size of most houses. geez

Ha. I’ll make it through! I’m just trying to educate myself on the cost before I get in too deep. Sometimes things that look amazing to an architect aren’t worth the additional costs and that’s what I’m trying to discern. I’m not worried about the difference in 2 feet of lumber I was just being told some incorrect information about it being disproportionately more expensive for the additional length. It sounds like it simply is more lumber and therefore more expensive. As we continue through the budgeting process and looking at windows and some of the other items the heights of those ceilings may very well change. But at least I can make a more I nformed decision. Thanks!

 

[Kellywilhelm]

12' throughout the house? Or just a room?

My first floor is 9',second and third are 8'. I like those heights. Living room is cathedral, peaking at about 15ish. If I was doing a new build now, I would probably do the same except maybe 9' in the master so we could do a tray ceiling

It’s through the main part of the house where the kitchen/den/dining room are located but the bedrooms and rest of the house will have 10 foot ceilings.

 

[mike93lx]

It’s through the main part of the house where the kitchen/den/dining room are located but the bedrooms and rest of the house will have 10 foot ceilings.

Wow, that's big.

 

[Kaizen]

Ha. I’ll make it through! I’m just trying to educate myself on the cost before I get in too deep. Sometimes things that look amazing to an architect aren’t worth the additional costs and that’s what I’m trying to discern. I’m not worried about the difference in 2 feet of lumber I was just being told some incorrect information about it being disproportionately more expensive for the additional length. It sounds like it simply is more lumber and therefore more expensive. As we continue through the budgeting process and looking at windows and some of the other items the heights of those ceilings may very well change. But at least I can make a more I nformed decision. Thanks!

This is just for this application of walls. Things can change drastically on other items so its good to research and make a few calls. The pitch and size of trusses for example. If it gets too wide/tall then they come in 2 pieces = more labor and more time and taller machines. Good luck.

 

[Gogo300]

Just make sure when it’s built you get 12’ or 10’ ceilings and not 11’ or 9’ ceilings.

Make sure they know how to use a tape measure and double check for yourself before the roof is installed and your past the point of no return.

Builder built garage too short. What penalty?

I'm neck deep in an extensive underground garage build. It required blasting tons of rock to ultimately allow an entirely undergoing garage to be built into the hillside of my home. Architect designed, this was not an insignificant job as it will total well into 6 figures. Problem is the...

www.garagejournal.com

 

[dcg9381]

I’m building a house and need input on basic building 101. My architect wants to build 12’ ceilings and uses 2x6 boards in the walls (for a variety of reasons). I’m hearing that it’s WAY more expensive to use 2x6x12 versus 2x6x10 boards. Is it disproportionately more expensive (because of standard cuts or because it’s not a common cut) or is it just marginally more because it’s more material? I’m hearing different things from different people. Thanks!

I think this is answered, but here's the deal:
Until recently, framing costs were a pretty small fraction of the total cost of construction. And if we're talking about one wall surface, that's a fraction of total lumber. You can SWAG it yourself by comparing prices (%) of lumber locally. If you want a 12' ceiling, go for it.

Architects, in my experience are architects. I'm sure that's not always true, but in many cases they build what you want and don't always consider the most "cost effective" way to do it. It sounds like your guy has a decent mastery of both. That's great.

And you're right - it depends on the "source" of the lumber, but some lumber is not precision cut, so framers have to go in and adjust every single board, that adds more labor - I'm not sure how the framing guys always consider this in the bid though.

There is a LOT that goes into designing and building a custom home. It can be a challenge.

Here's how we got 14' ceilings (at peak), end walls are 10':

 

[CraigStu]

It's not just 12ft studs. It's 12ft of drywall, 12ft of labor to mud and sand drywall (a 8 or9 ft wall the mud guy just uses stilts strapped to his legs but 12ft he probably needs scaffolding), 12ft of whatever is going on the outside, 12ft of insulation, 12 ft of paint, etc. Kind of like boats, a 24ft boat is way more than double the price of a 12 ft boat.

 

[FredWanaker]

I am puzzled by why are you asking here how to design your house when you have an architect who works for you. Talk it over with him/her. Tell them your concerns.

 

[Copymutt]

As we've already hit the great reset for energy your comment about being able to afford to heat it is high on my list. Thread yesterday about Mainer‘s spending more on their heat than their mortgage. High ceilings need fans to circulate the air. Don‘t know your 20, but passive solar is a win if you've got sun.

 

[Shiftless]

I am puzzled by why are you asking here how to design your house when you have an architect who works for you. Talk it over with him/her. Tell them your concerns.

Me too.
A kitchen slash dining room slash living room seems to be the currently popular “great room”.
Properly designed and furnished that can be a fine “open concept” design if that’s your life style. As others have said, it might be difficult / expensive to heat and cool evenly across such a large space.
You mentioned “den” and the idea of “cozy”. To me, that indicates a much smaller and more contained space. Maybe like “office”.
I wouldn’t want a room in my house that felt like a hotel lobby.
(for reference, I live in a 3br. 2ba. 2600 sq.ft. house built in 1950 with a family room where the TV is that’s about 1/3 the square footage of the room you are talking about. 8 foot ceilings.)

 

[PoorUB]

I would ask if he has any similar homes he designed that the current owner wouldn't mind letting you look at.
My garage is 24x38, so not too far from what you describe. I have 9 foot ceiling in about half, and 8 foot in the other half. It doesn't seem weird to me. IMO, ten foot is high enough, 12 is a bit much. but I am not an architect and perhaps he has some grand vision I don't see.

Personally, I would rather go with lower side wall and with scissor trusses to raise the ceiling and have something other than a flat, level ceiling.

 

[rancherbill]

I’m hearing that it’s WAY more expensive to use 2x6x12 versus 2x6x10 boards.

I am sure there is a sales volume price difference. I don't know the difference in price but I KNOW that it's small compared to what the cool effect that Architect has in mind.

Cheaping out is like putting steel wheels on a Caddy because of cost. Yech!

 

[Kellywilhelm]

Just make sure when it’s built you get 12’ or 10’ ceilings and not 11’ or 9’ ceilings.

Make sure they know how to use a tape measure and double check for yourself before the roof is installed and your past the point of no return.

Builder built garage too short. What penalty?

I'm neck deep in an extensive underground garage build. It required blasting tons of rock to ultimately allow an entirely undergoing garage to be built into the hillside of my home. Architect designed, this was not an insignificant job as it will total well into 6 figures. Problem is the...

www.garagejournal.com

Wow!! That’s a real mess you’ve got. So sorry!!!!

 

[dcg9381]

OP, let us know what you come up with (plans) - curious to see what you're building.

 

[duneslider]

I just built my house and I have 10 foot ceilings throughout the house except in the "great room" where we did it at 12'. It makes the "great room" feel really grand and the 10' ceilings in the rest of the house still feel really tall. I am really happy with the 10' everywhere else and I do not think that I would want 12' in the whole house.

Nothing wrong with 12' ceilings everywhere if that is what you want but in smaller rooms I could see that feeling really tall. For example in my small half bath off the kitchen that has 10' ceilings it feels really tall and I wonder what 12' would be like in there?

My wife's office off the great room is also 12' and it feels fine but I think that is due to a glass office wall and huge window to the outside.

 

[duneslider]

I just want to also mention that most of what I mentioned above is my opinion of things. I haven't seen your plans or any of that. 12' may be totally appropriate and be the way to go.

As to building costs. Below are my experiences.

A custom home framer is NOT the same as production home framers. There were several framers that declined to frame our house because it wasn't in their wheelhouse and they didn't want to spend the time doing a custom job. A custom home framer will cost more.

Our drywallers didn't use scaffolding anywhere but one stairway, even in the 12' area they did it all on stilts. I also don't know how good drywallers can go as fast as they do, its freaking amazing.

I am not aware of 12' pre-cut stud lengths, so for 12' walls every single 2x will have to be cut. There are 10' pre-cut studs so less cutting there for sure.

Drywall for 12' walls is easy, works out well for 4' sheet spacing.

I have not noticed any difference in the feel of the house in regards to heat/cool compared to my old house, in fact due to this new house being built to a tighter standard than the old it actually feels better all the time and my energy costs for the new house are not much more than my old house even considering it is more than double the square footage. I would say that spending a few extra dollars to make a house more efficient is worth the cost. Insulation, air sealing, properly designed hvac, etc makes a huge difference.

It WILL cost more than you estimate it to cost. With custom builds if stuff ends up costing more its on you, not the builder, just remember that. We ended up about 100k over budget, some was due to covid prices going up, some was unexpected landscape costs, and some was having to change finishes due to availability.

 

[dcg9381]

With custom builds if stuff ends up costing more its on you, not the builder, just remember that. We ended up about 100k over budget, some was due to covid prices going up, some was unexpected landscape costs, and some was having to change finishes due to availability.

It *really* depends on how the contract is written. Banks around here don't like "cost plus" contact models, they want a fixed price for a home, specific materials list, as they SWAG what that home is worth before it gets built.

A contract can give you an "allowance" for something like flooring. And if flooring busts that price (or you choose better flooring) then you're coming out of pocket. We had a large number of allowances. One way builders can lure you in is with a low price that has allowances that are way under reality. From our initial contract, I doubled or tripled a few of the builder's "recommended" allowances. Even then, we busted budget big time on a few things.

For things where you're not given allowances, that's on the builder to provide the described materials at contract price. This is also where the "margin" is hidden. We built into the side of a hill, our GC assumed that the hill fill was stable enough to use a stand post tension foundation. Turns out we had to use a post tension foundation and drop about 10 3' wide piers 10 feet deep into that hill. I didn't eat that cost, he did...

There were a bunch of builders around here building spec homes that backed out of their purchase contracts when wood and electrical had big swings and housing was continuing to increase in appreciation at some crazy pace. Many had "out for any reason" clauses - if you buy spec watch out for this. Custom his harder to get out of if you've got ownership of the actual land.

 

[Kellywilhelm]

OP, let us know what you come up with (plans) - curious to see what you're building.

Will do! It’s coming along nicely

 

[Kellywilhelm]

I am sure there is a sales volume price difference. I don't know the difference in price but I KNOW that it's small compared to what the cool effect that Architect has in mind.

Cheaping out is like putting steel wheels on a Caddy because of cost. Yech!

Thank you. I agree!

 

[Kellywilhelm]

Wow, that's big.

The total sqft is right at 4,000 but majority of space is def in this area.

 

[Kellywilhelm]

It *really* depends on how the contract is written. Banks around here don't like "cost plus" contact models, they want a fixed price for a home, specific materials list, as they SWAG what that home is worth before it gets built.

A contract can give you an "allowance" for something like flooring. And if flooring busts that price (or you choose better flooring) then you're coming out of pocket. We had a large number of allowances. One way builders can lure you in is with a low price that has allowances that are way under reality. From our initial contract, I doubled or tripled a few of the builder's "recommended" allowances. Even then, we busted budget big time on a few things.

For things where you're not given allowances, that's on the builder to provide the described materials at contract price. This is also where the "margin" is hidden. We built into the side of a hill, our GC assumed that the hill fill was stable enough to use a stand post tension foundation. Turns out we had to use a post tension foundation and drop about 10 3' wide piers 10 feet deep into that hill. I didn't eat that cost, he did...

There were a bunch of builders around here building spec homes that backed out of their purchase contracts when wood and electrical had big swings and housing was continuing to increase in appreciation at some crazy pace. Many had "out for any reason" clauses - if you buy spec watch out for this. Custom his harder to get out of if you've got ownership of the actual land.

Overages are def on me which is why I’m trying to best understand my options. We are getting bids and trying to have a fairly “tight” budget. Trying to lock in prices since everything is going up up up.

 

[Kellywilhelm]

I am puzzled by why are you asking here how to design your house when you have an architect who works for you. Talk it over with him/her. Tell them your concerns.

I’m not asking how to design it. I have an excellent architect. I’m asking about cost differential here bc I don’t have a frame of reference on whether the increased height will exorbitantly increase the cost. Of course the architect is going to go for the best look (and it is going to be fabulous!) but if I can have educated discussions then that helps me make better decisions. I’ve learned a lot from the helpful responders. This just isn’t my area of expertise but I knew that people with more experience could give me things to consider. Mission accomplished.

 

[Kellywilhelm]

I just want to also mention that most of what I mentioned above is my opinion of things. I haven't seen your plans or any of that. 12' may be totally appropriate and be the way to go.

As to building costs. Below are my experiences.

A custom home framer is NOT the same as production home framers. There were several framers that declined to frame our house because it wasn't in their wheelhouse and they didn't want to spend the time doing a custom job. A custom home framer will cost more.

Our drywallers didn't use scaffolding anywhere but one stairway, even in the 12' area they did it all on stilts. I also don't know how good drywallers can go as fast as they do, its freaking amazing.

I am not aware of 12' pre-cut stud lengths, so for 12' walls every single 2x will have to be cut. There are 10' pre-cut studs so less cutting there for sure.

Drywall for 12' walls is easy, works out well for 4' sheet spacing.

I have not noticed any difference in the feel of the house in regards to heat/cool compared to my old house, in fact due to this new house being built to a tighter standard than the old it actually feels better all the time and my energy costs for the new house are not much more than my old house even considering it is more than double the square footage. I would say that spending a few extra dollars to make a house more efficient is worth the cost. Insulation, air sealing, properly designed hvac, etc makes a huge difference.

It WILL cost more than you estimate it to cost. With custom builds if stuff ends up costing more its on you, not the builder, just remember that. We ended up about 100k over budget, some was due to covid prices going up, some was unexpected landscape costs, and some was having to change finishes due to availability.

Super helpful. Thank you! I’ve budgeted an extra 20% just in case. My architect and I are getting bids on everything now so I’ll feel better about the decisions.

 

[Kellywilhelm]

I’m not asking how to design it. I have an excellent architect. I’m asking about cost differential here bc I don’t have a frame of reference on whether the increased height will exorbitantly increase the cost. Of course the architect is going to go for the best look (and it is going to be fabulous!) but if I can have educated discussions then that helps me make better decisions. I’ve learned a lot from the helpful responders. This just isn’t my area of expertise but I knew that people with more experience could give me things to consider. Mission accomplished.

I just built my house and I have 10 foot ceilings throughout the house except in the "great room" where we did it at 12'. It makes the "great room" feel really grand and the 10' ceilings in the rest of the house still feel really tall. I am really happy with the 10' everywhere else and I do not think that I would want 12' in the whole house.

Nothing wrong with 12' ceilings everywhere if that is what you want but in smaller rooms I could see that feeling really tall. For example in my small half bath off the kitchen that has 10' ceilings it feels really tall and I wonder what 12' would be like in there?

My wife's office off the great room is also 12' and it feels fine but I think that is due to a glass office wall and huge window to the outside.

My plan is to have the 12' in the "great room" and 10' everywhere else. Considering 12 in the powder bath just for drama. Ha! Mine sounds similar to what you've done.

 

[Kellywilhelm]

I think this is answered, but here's the deal:
Until recently, framing costs were a pretty small fraction of the total cost of construction. And if we're talking about one wall surface, that's a fraction of total lumber. You can SWAG it yourself by comparing prices (%) of lumber locally. If you want a 12' ceiling, go for it.

Architects, in my experience are architects. I'm sure that's not always true, but in many cases they build what you want and don't always consider the most "cost effective" way to do it. It sounds like your guy has a decent mastery of both. That's great.

And you're right - it depends on the "source" of the lumber, but some lumber is not precision cut, so framers have to go in and adjust every single board, that adds more labor - I'm not sure how the framing guys always consider this in the bid though.

There is a LOT that goes into designing and building a custom home. It can be a challenge.

Here's how we got 14' ceilings (at peak), end walls are 10':

Looks amazing! I'm excited to get going.

 

[Kellywilhelm]

I’m not asking how to design it. I have an excellent architect. I’m asking about cost differential here bc I don’t have a frame of reference on whether the increased height will exorbitantly increase the cost. Of course the architect is going to go for the best look (and it is going to be fabulous!) but if I can have educated discussions then that helps me make better decisions. I’ve learned a lot from the helpful responders. This just isn’t my area of expertise but I knew that people with more experience could give me things to consider. Mission accomplished.

I would ask if he has any similar homes he designed that the current owner wouldn't mind letting you look at.
My garage is 24x38, so not too far from what you describe. I have 9 foot ceiling in about half, and 8 foot in the other half. It doesn't seem weird to me. IMO, ten foot is high enough, 12 is a bit much. but I am not an architect and perhaps he has some grand vision I don't see.

Personally, I would rather go with lower side wall and with scissor trusses to raise the ceiling and have something other than a flat, level ceiling.

Okay so that's a little over my head...scissor trusses! But I know he said that if I kept the room that large and had 10' ceilings the proportions would be off and it could feel short and squatty. It will have beams so it won't "feel" like 12'.

 

[Kellywilhelm]

Me too.
A kitchen slash dining room slash living room seems to be the currently popular “great room”.
Properly designed and furnished that can be a fine “open concept” design if that’s your life style. As others have said, it might be difficult / expensive to heat and cool evenly across such a large space.
You mentioned “den” and the idea of “cozy”. To me, that indicates a much smaller and more contained space. Maybe like “office”.
I wouldn’t want a room in my house that felt like a hotel lobby.
(for reference, I live in a 3br. 2ba. 2600 sq.ft. house built in 1950 with a family room where the TV is that’s about 1/3 the square footage of the room you are talking about. 8 foot ceilings.)

When I said "cozy" I guess I mean that I want it to be "warm" not "cold" so with the right flooring and adding beams to the ceiling, I think I will get that feel. I do have a "cozy nook" area that's an office/sitting area so I can always go there if I feel the need for a small space. My cousin just built a similar sized home with the same architect/builder and it's fantastic. Her house is spacious but doesn't feel like a hotel lobby but I totally understand your point. My current home is a fully renovated 1939 5 bedroom, 5 bathroom 5500 sq ft house. The new one will be 4,000 sqft and will have 3 br and 3.5 baths.

 

[Kellywilhelm]

It's not just 12ft studs. It's 12ft of drywall, 12ft of labor to mud and sand drywall (a 8 or9 ft wall the mud guy just uses stilts strapped to his legs but 12ft he probably needs scaffolding), 12ft of whatever is going on the outside, 12ft of insulation, 12 ft of paint, etc. Kind of like boats, a 24ft boat is way more than double the price of a 12 ft boat.

That's a great point and the info I'm trying to wrap my head around. Meeting with the architect next week to make final-ish decisions. Still getting bids on all the other stuff....windows, flooring, fixtures, appliances so I can see how my budget is looking. Higher ceilings also mean taller windows/transoms, etc. Thx!!

 

[Kellywilhelm]

This is just for this application of walls. Things can change drastically on other items so its good to research and make a few calls. The pitch and size of trusses for example. If it gets too wide/tall then they come in 2 pieces = more labor and more time and taller machines. Good luck.

thanks...I'll put that on my list for the architect. I love his vision but not sure it's worth the extra $$. BUT, he does design fabulous stuff so I've got to balance short term/long term goals Thx

 

[Metal-Marc]

For example in my small half bath off the kitchen that has 10' ceilings it feels really tall and I wonder what 12' would be like in there?

With 12' ceiling, you could enter the half bath with your buddy standing on your shoulders.

 

[Kellywilhelm]

With 12' ceiling, you could enter the half bath with you buddy standing on your shoulders.

Hilarious!!