Need bracing for wall mounted air handler

[Codyboy]

I finally hung my 4 ton air handler on unistrut in the shop.
The weight is causing it to tip away from the wall and I need to stiffen up my brackets.
I was thinking of using all thread on an angle.
The rod won't sit flat on the bracket though.
Is there another way to stiffen this up?

 

[jack stand]

Eye bolts, cable, cable clamps and turn buckles diagonally from the top to the outside of your "outriggers"?
Could do the same with ratchet straps.

 

[T444e]

There are angle brackets available for strut that allow for an angled strut brace to be installed. I'd. also bolt the air handler to the strut.

 

[southalabama]

Could also go to the floor with the strut. Use leg brackets on bottom. Would transfer a lot of weight down and to floor rather than hanging on walls.

 

[fitter30]

4 angle brackets 4pieces of strut 2 on the wall 2 from wall to bottom strut holding the unit outer edge of strut. Install the first two brackets on unit strut, level unit and strut 3/8 nuts and washers to fasten strut to brackets. Gives alot of adjustment.

 

[Codyboy]

Thanks for the replies and suggestions.

I ended up getting some 45° brackets and 3/8 all thread at the electrical supply.
I put nuts and washers on both sides of the 45s to not only to be used as a locknut but I could use it to push adjustment instead of just pulling.
Seems to work well and the unit is perfectly level/plumb.
I also used 3/8 bolts to bolt the angle on the unit to the strut.
The foam on the top and bottom is to keep critters out .

Now to figure out a filter tray for the bottom (upflow).
Do yall usually field make the intake or is it something you buy and screw it to the bottom?
The size is 21x21 opening.

 

[brewchief]

I'm assuming no real return duct?
What I normally would do is mount a media filter to the bottom(I'd use an Aprilaire 2210 in this case, mostly because that's what we stock) and then a short sleeve and then a 20x20 or 20x25 filter grill. This way the media filter protects the equipment and the 1" filter in the filter grill can grab the big stuff so you still get a reasonable life out of the more expensive media fliter.

 

[Codyboy]

I'm assuming no real return duct?
What I normally would do is mount a media filter to the bottom(I'd use an Aprilaire 2210 in this case, mostly because that's what we stock) and then a short sleeve and then a 20x20 or 20x25 filter grill. This way the media filter protects the equipment and the 1" filter in the filter grill can grab the big stuff so you still get a reasonable life out of the more expensive media fliter.

Yes correct , no return air duct.


I looked up that 2210 and its a 20x25.

Their 1310 is a 20x20. Would the cabinet it comes with screw to the bottom of the air handler?
What is available to mount the 1" filter too.
I bought a 20x20 grill that would be used on a finished wall or ceiling. It was way big at 2 1/2" all the way around.

I was thinking I could bend up some J trim into a 20x20 and screw it to the bottom of the aprilaire or directly to the bottom of the air handler.
It would be 3 sided and I could just slide the filter in.
Would that work?

 

[kaymccampbell]

If you just want a filter to keep the worst out, I usually just run some C-channel around 3 sides and slide in the filter.

 

[Codyboy]

If you just want a filter to keep the worst out, I usually just run some C-channel around 3 sides and slide in the filter.

Yes thats what i was thinking but with J trim.
C channel seems a bit overkill unless your referring to red iron C channel. Still a bit heavy. Lol
Hopefully I'll change the filter before it collects that much dirt. Lol
But I do like the idea of the Aprilaire big filter.
So will yhe aprilaire screw to the bottom or is it just taped into place with foil tape?

 

[brewchief]

Yes correct , no return air duct.


I looked up that 2210 and its a 20x25.

Their 1310 is a 20x20. Would the cabinet it comes with screw to the bottom of the air handler?
What is available to mount the 1" filter too.
I bought a 20x20 grill that would be used on a finished wall or ceiling. It was way big at 2 1/2" all the way around.

I was thinking I could bend up some J trim into a 20x20 and screw it to the bottom of the aprilaire or directly to the bottom of the air handler.
It would be 3 sided and I could just slide the filter in.
Would that work?

Aprilaire should screw right to the bottom, just make sure screws can't reach the drain pan( 1/2" screws should clear).
2310 Aprilaire and 1310 will be the same but 1310 will be plain steel vs painted housing .
A simple channel to hold a 1" filter is fine, I use a filter grill because it's a more finished look.
Most of the time we are mounted horizontal so I will build an elbow so filter is facing down so the customer can see it to see how dirty it is.

 

[kaymccampbell]

Yes thats what i was thinking but with J trim.
C channel seems a bit overkill unless your referring to red iron C channel. Still a bit heavy. Lol
Hopefully I'll change the filter before it collects that much dirt. Lol
But I do like the idea of the Aprilaire big filter.
So will yhe aprilaire screw to the bottom or is it just taped into place with foil tape?

Dunno what you've got near you. I buy tin c-channel from the custom ductwork place that does all my stuff to my spec. Saves tons of time n trouble.

Most folks screw on the Aprilaire. You'll still want the little c-channel filter under it, or it'll fill up with the bigger **** and be dead before you know it. Then you'll be in it for $50-75 for the element before its time.

 

[Codyboy]

Aprilaire should screw right to the bottom, just make sure screws can't reach the drain pan( 1/2" screws should clear).
2310 Aprilaire and 1310 will be the same but 1310 will be plain steel vs painted housing .
A simple channel to hold a 1" filter is fine, I use a filter grill because it's a more finished look.
Most of the time we are mounted horizontal so I will build an elbow so filter is facing down so the customer can see it to see how dirty it is.

Ok sounds easy enough.
That sure looks like a very clean install.

 

[Codyboy]

Dunno what you've got near you. I buy tin c-channel from the custom ductwork place that does all my stuff to my spec. Saves tons of time n trouble.

Most folks screw on the Aprilaire. You'll still want the little c-channel filter under it, or it'll fill up with the bigger **** and be dead before you know it. Then you'll be in it for $50-75 for the element before its time.

I will check the HVAC supply I've used before to see what he has available or can order or maybe point me to a fab shop.

I think I have the concept now.

Thank yall

Eta. I keep saying J trim because I have a few pieces laying around.

 

[Codyboy]

Do yall recommend having an overflow pan ? This a shop with no ceiling below to get wet.
But don't want to make a mess on the floor below either.

 

[kaymccampbell]

Do yall recommend having an overflow pan ? This a shop with no ceiling below to get wet.
But don't want to make a mess on the floor below either.

There should be at least one plastic pan inside the front cover. That's the side with the two oval plugs and the two pipes sticking out. You're going to want the one with the big hole in the middle. You set that up on the bottom, then install a drain from it to DWV below, or outside. Or, if the DWV is far away, then you get a condensate pump to transport your water.

 

[Codyboy]

There should be at least one plastic pan inside the front cover. That's the side with the two oval plugs and the two pipes sticking out. You're going to want the one with the big hole in the middle. You set that up on the bottom, then install a drain from it to DWV below, or outside. Or, if the DWV is far away, then you get a condensate pump to transport your water.

Yeah I understand how to plumb the "main" drain line. I also understand there's a pan internally .
It will come out of the lower hole, then a trap(according to the manufacturer it needs this ) then it goes down the wall then outside.

I'm talking about the metal pan that is placed under the unit to catch water "in case" the main gets clogged or the whole internal pan holes get clogged and it spills over the internal pan. If it does that the only place for it to go is the floor inside.

 

[kaymccampbell]

Yeah I understand how to plumb the "main" drain line. I also understand there's a pan internally .
It will come out of the lower hole, then a trap(according to the manufacturer it needs this ) then it goes down the wall then outside.

I'm talking about the metal pan that is placed under the unit to catch water "in case" the main gets clogged or the whole internal pan holes get clogged and it spills over the internal pan. If it does that the only place for it to go is the floor inside.

Usually you only do the big tin or plastic pan on a install above a ceiling. A vertical in the open, it's sorta expected you'll check the drain for fuzz occasionally, or at least see it dripping on the floor and fix it. I clean my drain when I do the annual evaporator cleaning. I've never had it clog up.

 

[brewchief]

You can buy a simple float switch that will screw into the secondary drain port and wire it to shut the unit down if the main drain is clogged .

 

[Codyboy]

You can buy a simple float switch that will screw into the secondary drain port and wire it to shut the unit down if the main drain is clogged .

Ok , I will look into that.
Do you have a link to a product that does this?

 

[Codyboy]

Usually you only do the big tin or plastic pan on a install above a ceiling. A vertical in the open, it's sorta expected you'll check the drain for fuzz occasionally, or at least see it dripping on the floor and fix it. I clean my drain when I do the annual evaporator cleaning. I've never had it clog up.

Yeah that makes sense. I've only had units that were above a living space and there's always an overflow pan in case Justin comes over.
I'll probably forego the pan and check into that float switch for the overflow hole.
Thanks

 

[Codyboy]

I think for now I'll forego the Aprilaire . May add it later on.
I fashioned a slide in tray that will actually hold two of the cheap 1" filters.
I will hem the wider edge back another inch or so. As of right now it only allows an opening of 16 1/2". After hemming it it should give me an 18 1/2" opening and should work great for a 20x20 which is 19 1/2".

 

[brewchief]

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Rectorseal-97637-Safe-T-Switch-Model-SS2

Here's one example

 

[karoc]

Wonder if unit will make vibration noise being hard mounted to wall? We usually mount units with rubber pads underneath to help. Yours being new and well mounted maybe not. It’s looking good

 

[manwithtools]

Wonder if unit will make vibration noise being hard mounted to wall?

I'm pretty sure it will transfer noise and vibration to the wall, however the spray foam insulation my be enough to dampen the noise. I'd try it and see. Add rubber isolation if it needs it later.

 

[readhead]

The biggest problem is that the unit is hanging on non structural members. There needs to be some support from the floor. You can do all the bracing in the world and not solve the problem. The girts are only there to attach the siding.

 

[Codyboy]

The biggest problem is that the unit is hanging on non structural members. There needs to be some support from the floor. You can do all the bracing in the world and not solve the problem. The girts are only there to attach the siding.

I'm pretty sure it will transfer noise and vibration to the wall, however the spray foam insulation my be enough to dampen the noise. I'd try it and see. Add rubber isolation if it needs it later.

The bracing is to keep the horizontal struts from bending down. Those steel angles are pretty stout but still need some angle bracing .

If it vibrates too much I'll add some rubber pads for it to sit on.

As far as hanging on non structural members. Its only about 150 pounds or so. Their is an upright member just to the right of the unit that goes from the floor all the way to the gable/peak. That part of the wall is pretty stout. If that wall can handle 135 MPH windload then I don't think a 150 pounds hanging on it will make a difference.

 

[readhead]

In your first post you mentioned that the unit was tipping away from the wall. That was probably the girts deflecting.
I was in the metal building business for twenty five years but it sounds like you have everything worked out.

 

[Snip's]

Picking the bottom holes on the two angles to tie the threaded rod would be better (less flexing of the angle)....

 

[Codyboy]

In your first post you mentioned that the unit was tipping away from the wall. That was probably the girts deflecting.
I was in the metal building business for twenty five years but it sounds like you have everything worked out.

Definitely wasn't the wall girts.
The 90 angles had some flex, actually a lot of flex.
I could pull down on the horizontal strut that the unit rests on (unit doesn't touch the verticals) and just by hand I could flex those thick angles.
Adding the all thread made a huge difference. No different than an angle brace on a wall to keep it from racking.

Eta
And actually those 90s were not bent to a true 90. More like 95 or more when you put a square on it.

 

[Codyboy]

Picking the bottom holes on the two angles to tie the threaded rod would be better (less flexing of the angle)....

Yes probably. I did it both ways and it was a bit difficult to get a wrench on the bottom hole on the top 45 angle.

 

[T444e]

I'm pretty sure it will transfer noise and vibration to the wall, however the spray foam insulation my be enough to dampen the noise. I'd try it and see. Add rubber isolation if it needs it later.

I wouldn't be surprised if the blower has internal vibration isolation.

 

[Codyboy]

I wouldn't be surprised if the blower has internal vibration isolation.

I pulled the cover a couple of months ago when it arrived.
didn't think to take note if it was rubber mounted or not..

If it gives issues I'll add some rubber pads to the angle supports.

The blower is a Goodman so who knows.

 

[Codyboy]

The AH i received doesn't have the flared fittings because they sold out of that before I ordered.
So I got this. It has belled copper for brazing.
I can't braze the lines and would have to call an HVAC guy to do it.
Can I flare these and flare the lineset ?
Doesn't look to be much sticking out of the AH , but I'm not sure.
The condenser already has flared fittings and they supplied flared adapters for this.

 

[whateg01]

I've never brazed a line set. Only soldered.

 

[Codyboy]

I've never brazed a line set. Only soldered.

I've never done linesets for AC.
Solder copper pipe, yes. Looks ugly as sin but its holding and hasn't leaked.
Supposedly with soldering it leaves a residue inside the copper pipe. I guess thats fine for potable water because it gets washed out .

Since an HVAC system is a closed loop, the contaminants cannot wash out and keep circulating in the system.

From what I understand you need to purge and run nitrogen (correct me if I'm wrong) through the system while brazing the lineset.

 

[Snapped-off]

I've never done linesets for AC.
Solder copper pipe, yes. Looks ugly as sin but its holding and hasn't leaked.
Supposedly with soldering it leaves a residue inside the copper pipe. I guess thats fine for potable water because it gets washed out .

Since an HVAC system is a closed loop, the contaminants cannot wash out and keep circulating in the system.

From what I understand you need to purge and run nitrogen (correct me if I'm wrong) through the system while brazing the lineset.

Purging with N2 would be the proper way to do it.

There's also more than plenty of residential HVAC guys that don't purge and don't replace driers after opening the system. Job security? Laziness?

 

[ericm]

I'm pretty sure it will transfer noise and vibration to the wall, however the spray foam insulation my be enough to dampen the noise. I'd try it and see. Add rubber isolation if it needs it later.

They make rubber mounts specifically for mini split condensers.

 

[Codyboy]

They make rubber mounts specifically for mini split condensers.

The condenser (outside) came with rubber feet attachments.
This is the air handler hanging on the wall (inside)
Supposedly these things run smooth. Hopefully it'll have no issues.
It's just a squirrel cage fan and motor. Hopefully its balance enough to not cause a problem.

 

[Fav Onefour]

I have a hard time relying on hope.

150 lbs doesn't seem like much weight but here's the thing. Throw up a 150 lb kid on the end of those horizontal brackets and tell them to start jumping around. You would be impressed by how much things move. Hour after hour and day after day little movement adds up.

Wall mount can work but give yourself every best option. Do you have the line sets already attached?

It's a lot less work to do it right at the beginning vs. fixing down the road. If you have problems it will be more than a vibrating air handler that needs fixing.
The strongest points of your vertical brackets are at the girt attachment locations. Right now the horizontal brackets are mounted well below a strong point. The free end of the vertical channel has a lot of room to flex and move.
If you want to get a better chance with hope, try putting the unit at a height where mounting point of brackets are at the girt attachment points. It would help to add isolation pads and try to keep the steel from rattling. Do the 45 degree threaded rod into the closer holes. I get the wrench thing, but man. . . Run the rod through the bottom bracket and tighten everything from easier access points.

I know it seems like a hassle to redo the mount. It's way less hassle than the options if hope doesn't work.
One big issue with steel on steel with steel fasteners is movement. Foam is a nice comfort level reinforcement. It's still not steel. If things start moving, the fastener holes start to wear, the girts are loose, tin is loose, and all of a sudden you have pieces of a building hanging around each other.