Need Compressor recommendation, budget $3-5k

[vw_tdi]

Greetings

I'm helping a general contractor / cabinet builder friend with research to replace his compressor. He's not an interwebs person, so I'm doing this part for him

Sanding is his most demanding task. He is replacing an 80-gallon unit from Montgomery Wards (!) that he doesn't want to blow up and kill somebody.

His budget is $3-5k, preferably more like 3k. When I talked to him, his main questions were:

(1) is it worth it to spend extra $ to get magnetic vs. capacitor start?

(2) Any advantage to a vertical vs. horizontal unit?

(3) splash lube vs. pressure lube?

From my quick scan, it seems like the units get north of $2500 when you get into magnetic start and pressure lube. Is this how it usually goes? What are the advantages to spending more than his $3k price point? He didn't seem terribly interested in air drying, etc.

Any units / brands you'd push him toward? I've looked at a couple of quincy's that seem promising. What sorts of features should we be looking at in order to be the most reliable, etc.?

Thanks for your time!

 

[manwithtools]

Longest operating life will be offered by magnetic starter. I'd look for something with true 5 or 7.5hp motor which will need a magnetic starter to operate properly, not something with SPL in the hp rating on the motor nameplate.

If it's single phase it will be a capacitor start motor regardless of presence of magnetic starter.

Pressure lube vs splash, I'll leave to someone more knowledgeable.

I'd want an air dryer in a wood shop, particularly if he's operating pneumatic sanders.

Obvious advantage of vertical is less floor space than a horizontal.

Without knowing his SCFM requirements, it's a little difficult to recommend a unit.

 

[vw_tdi]

Longest operating life will be offered by magnetic starter. I'd look for something with true 5 or 7.5hp motor which will need a magnetic starter to operate properly, not something with SPL in the hp rating on the motor nameplate.

If it's single phase it will be a capacitor start motor regardless of presence of magnetic starter.

Pressure lube vs splash, I'll leave to someone more knowledgeable.

Without knowing his SCFM requirements, it's a little difficult to recommend a unit.

My apologies. I will get the SCFM ratings on his sanders and post back. I'm pretty sure he only has 240v Single Phase available (electrical stuff turns me into an instant *****, so he could tell me anything and I wouldn't understand it).

 

[vw_tdi]

Looks like his sanders are in the 13-15 SCFM range. Sound right?

 

[aussiek2000]

https://www.homedepot.com/p/EMAX-In...Electric-Air-Compressor-HSP10V080V1/300266718

 

[manwithtools]

I like the recommendation above, I might consider a package deal with air dryer and no tax:

https://www.aircompressorsdirect.com/EMAX-EP10V080V1PKG-Air-Compressor/p78102.html

I'm skeptical abut the 60db noise level, that's very low for piston compressor. I just bought a 15hp screw Quincy and it's rated at 67db

 

[Toomanytools?]

There are lots of compressors in the $1800-3000 range that fit his needs, no need to spend 5K. Try this place.
https://www.aircompressorsdirect.com/Quincy-271C80VCBM-Air-Compressor/p3347.html

 

[Tonyuk]

I'm no expert, however any air tool that runs continuously (sanders, die grinders etc..) really eat up the air, hence needing an expensive set-up,

Is there no corded electrical solutions for him?

 

[manwithtools]

If he is running two sanders at a time, he needs 26 - 30 SCFM. Any finish spraying at the same time and another 5-7 or more SCFM. I don't think 23.8 SCFM is going to cut it. An air compressor is not the place to cut corners in my opinion, more air than you need is a good thing within reason.

The end user really needs to do the math to know how many simultaneous SCFM they will need. From there, it's pretty simple matter of choosing the right size compressor. Dry air is an important aspect of finishing and sanding in a wood working environment as well.

 

[md21722]

A single phase motor will have capacitors. The advantage of the magnetic starter is that it takes load off the pressure switch on 5 HP compressors. At 7.5 HP single phase, a magnetic starter is going to be standard equipment. For continuous use of a sanders, I would look towards a compressor after cooler package. Something like the Champion Advantage VR5-8 would probably be perfect for your friend. I don't know of anything better and it should be around $3k. You might consider calling a local compressor dealer and seeing what they recommend.

 

[sberry]

Pressure lube gets expensive fast and he doesnt need it. One man can sand steady on 5 hp. If there are actually 2 sanding for any length of time it takes 7.5. Doesnt mean you need to air for every man working in the shop. Only for the amount actually using air and a little loss here and there doesnt amount to much. I did a little test on 6 inch da a while back. I have reg on that circuit at 130/135 for impacts, 60 ft of 1/2 pipe, 50 ft of 3/8 hose on a reel, an auto style QD, DELIVERED 120 to the tool. Could have ran 2 and stayed above 90.

 

[manwithtools]

Pressure lube gets expensive fast and he doesnt need it. One man can sand steady on 5 hp. If there are actually 2 sanding for any length of time it takes 7.5. Doesnt mean you need to air for every man working in the shop. Only for the amount actually using air and a little loss here and there doesnt amount to much. I did a little test on 6 inch da a while back. I have reg on that circuit at 130/135 for impacts, 60 ft of 1/2 pipe, 50 ft of 3/8 hose on a reel, an auto style QD, DELIVERED 120 to the tool. Could have ran 2 and stayed above 90.

Have you ever operated a cabinet shop using pneumatic tools? It's not as simple as a couple of DA's for body work.

 

[sberry]

He didnt say anything about how big this shop was other than he has a Wards 80 gallon. Didnt say it wasnt big enough only implied it was old. Which may be more worry than real risk. Wards of old sold a lot of 3 and some 5,, so its only guess like most of this thread so far.

 

[manwithtools]

Who cares what Ward's sold? They also sold little Speedaire portables but that's not at hand here. First things first, what are the current CFM requirements?

Did you read post number 4?

I'm assuming and maybe I'm going down in flames for that, that he is more than a one man shop. If he is, they will operate more than one sander at a time. They will also be spraying at the same time more than likely.

I so enjoy typing messages to myself.....

 

[sberry]

Have you ever operated a cabinet shop using pneumatic tools? It's not as simple as a couple of DA's for body work.

It was just a story to get a grip on true air demands and delivery. We do some real over estimating on utility demand. Every circuit doesnt see 20A continious, not every air tool runs 20 cfm all the time and run 100%' Every man in the place isnt sanding at the same time.
How many men work in this shop? An important piece of info when picking a comp.
What electric service is available? The cost is rather minor and rather irrelevent at this point.
Kind of like saying what truck do I need to haul rocks,, I wann spend 3 grand.

 

[sberry]

Yes, I read 4. I got 25 tools ise 15 cfm. Only running 1 @ a time.

 

[manwithtools]

Did you read post number 2? How about 9?

 

[vw_tdi]

you guys are cracking me up.

He is currently a 1 man show with labor hired as needed.

Typically, 1 tool at a time, but I've seen 2 sanders being used. He wouldn't have an interest in changing his tooling to corded/electric. He is replacing the wards out of safety, as it's getting old (and end-of-year tax advantage).

I'm putting together a links list for him that we can go over. Thanks again.

matt

 

[vw_tdi]

Pressure lube gets expensive fast and he doesnt need it. /QUOTE]

can you explain this to me? I'm not sure I understand it...

Here's what I got of the interwebs:

Pressure lubrication is the second type of method used to lubricate piston compressors. It is a more technically advanced and usually more costly method, but it results in longer life for a compressor. Pressure lubrication is a process where an oil pump precisely distributes oil to key areas of the pump

Sounds like more reliable lubrication, but it sounds like it's not worth the hassle for him? Costs more in oil changes?

matt

 

[Toomanytools?]

Did you read post number 2? How about 9?

Sounds like maybe someone didn't get everything they wanted for Christmas?

My post was more to show the website link for Aircompressorsdirect.com not the 23.8cfm model. As you stated he really needs to know how many tools are running at once and add up the SCFM to find his needs.
In the first post he asked about:

(1) is it worth it to spend extra $ to get magnetic vs. capacitor start?

(2) Any advantage to a vertical vs. horizontal unit?

(3) splash lube vs. pressure lube?

I think when we hear he had an old ...(80-gallon unit from Montgomery Wards (!) that he doesn't want to blow up and kill somebody)
I at least think that is a 20-30 year old unit that most likely didn't have much output in PSI or CFM's but again that's just a guess.
The forums easily go off on a tangent, let's try to help the guy.
I think we can agree he really needs to give more info on the use of tools and the (SCFM's) he needs at any given time.

 

[manwithtools]

Sounds like maybe someone didn't get everything they wanted for Christmas?

My post was more to show the website link for Aircompressorsdirect.com not the 23.8cfm model. As you stated he really needs to know how many tools are running at once and add up the SCFM to find his needs.
In the first post he asked about:

(1) is it worth it to spend extra $ to get magnetic vs. capacitor start?

(2) Any advantage to a vertical vs. horizontal unit?

(3) splash lube vs. pressure lube?

I think when we hear he had an old ...(80-gallon unit from Montgomery Wards (!) that he doesn't want to blow up and kill somebody)
I at least think that is a 20-30 year old unit that most likely didn't have much output in PSI or CFM's but again that's just a guess.
The forums easily go off on a tangent, let's try to help the guy.
I think we can agree he really needs to give more info on the use of tools and the (SCFM's) he needs at any given time.

Sorry, Christmas was just fine. When you are bored and have some time, please read all 27,000 + posts from sberry and maybe you will understand my attitude.

Please re-read post number two where I answered almost all of the OP's questions and levied some more relevant questions to point him and us in the right direction.

Now that we know more other relevant information, we can recommend what his friend might need.

 

[sberry]

Most modern comps, decent ones have pumps rated in 1000's of hours rated life cycles of pumps. A pressure lube costs more. I had this debate long time ago with myself too so I can relate. If he could wear a regular comp out its paid for itself many times over. He doesnt need pressure lube. It does need to be 5 hp or better, 5 is kind of a standard for sanding.

 

[sberry]

I do not disagree with anything you posted. In fact agreed and gave it reinforcement.

 

[Toomanytools?]

Sorry, Christmas was just fine. When you are bored and have some time, please read all 27,000 + posts from sberry and maybe you will understand my attitude.

Please re-read post number two where I answered almost all of the OP's questions and levied some more relevant questions to point him and us in the right direction.

Now that we know more other relevant information, we can recommend what his friend might need.

LOL, ok all is good I think progress can be made. I don't have time to read all 27K.

 

[larry_g]

Looks like his sanders are in the 13-15 SCFM range. Sound right?

I would have to ask what are the specs on the compressor he is using now? Cfm and horsepower of the motor. Knowing that then ask has he ever lacked for air from this compressor? If the compressor he has supplies enough air for the shop to run efficiently then no reason to go bigger.

Now if the compressor is not keeping up with demand then some work needs to be done to figure out what he really needs. Right now this thread has a bunch of guys pissin in the wind because they have no facts to base answers on. Some of the facts needed is how many hours a day is sanding or other air hogs being used? Duty cycle is another important detail often over looked. If time is money to this guy and waiting for a compressor to charge up costs downtime then maybe a bit more time spent making an informed decision would serve him better than the opinions of a bunch of internet characters.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[stonesfan68]

An Ingersoll-Rand Type 30 machine would fit the bill nicely. Get a 2475N5 (5HP) or a 2545N7.5 (7.5HP). If you want a compressor that can be passed along to his grandchildren then get a 2545K10. Either machine will be a significant upgrade from his current compressor. It is splash lubricated so you don't need to worry about an oil pump failing or changing an oil filter. IR has made the Type30 since 1935 or so. You don't need to worry about splash lubrication.

A Quincy machine would be another excellent choice. The QT series is splash lubricated and the QR is pressure lubricated. You can't go wrong with either machine.

There are no advantages to a vertical receiver versus horizontal receiver. The vertical tank uses less space. The horizontal tank allows for easier access for maintenance.

Do your friend a favor and suggest that he buy the compressor from the local distributor. If you need warranty service then you'll be first in line as opposed to the people who save $150 and buy a machine from the internet.

You have two basic options for a dryer. You can get a high temperature or a standard refrigerated dryer. The hi-temp dryer means the compressor doesn't need to have an after-cooler. It is sometimes less costly to get a hi-temp dryer with a low spec air compressor as compared to a standard dryer, filter and a compressor with an after-cooler.

I wouldn't recommend a desiccant dryer for this application.

Good luck.

 

[manwithtools]

I would have to ask what are the specs on the compressor he is using now? Cfm and horsepower of the motor. Knowing that then ask has he ever lacked for air from this compressor? If the compressor he has supplies enough air for the shop to run efficiently then no reason to go bigger.

Now if the compressor is not keeping up with demand then some work needs to be done to figure out what he really needs. Right now this thread has a bunch of guys pissin in the wind because they have no facts to base answers on. Some of the facts needed is how many hours a day is sanding or other air hogs being used? Duty cycle is another important detail often over looked. If time is money to this guy and waiting for a compressor to charge up costs downtime then maybe a bit more time spent making an informed decision would serve him better than the opinions of a bunch of internet characters.

lg
no neat sig line

Which internet character are you? Seems like plenty of facts were asked for and answers were provided. We know how many CFM per tool and how many simultaneous operators. Number of hours per day are not relevant, peak usage with continuous duty compressor is what matters.

"Duty cycle is another important detail often over looked." What does this mean? CFM is all that matters in a shop environment. Air compressors should be sized for 100% duty cycle in a production shop environment.

 

[sberry]

I am not an expert in real life,, I only play one on the internet.

 

[marinusdees]

I am not an expert in real life,, I only play one on the internet.

Yeah, right.

 

[md21722]

Pressure lube gets expensive fast and he doesnt need it. /QUOTE]

can you explain this to me? I'm not sure I understand it...

Here's what I got of the interwebs:



Sounds like more reliable lubrication, but it sounds like it's not worth the hassle for him? Costs more in oil changes?

matt

The compressor pumps cost more. Change in cost of oil changes would be the filter also needs to be changed. You can buy a Champion R-series pump with pressure lube too, but frankly I would put the extra cost to keeping the air dry.

 

[ChrisLS8]

2 of the Eastwood scrolls?

 

[seanc_mt]

For what he wants and his budget it sounds like he needs to be looking at rotary compressors not your standard piston driven one...

 

[sberry]

Rotary is better suited to continious production. He is on the right track here, just needs to determine the peak load and what he can live with.
There is a pizza shop. There is an hour or 2 on some Friday night's where the ovens can't keep up. They could build and add new but the cost would be hi. A little careful management and prep makes up for it.
Like electric service in a small garage, can a guy wait a minute or 2 for the comp to shut down to strike an arc on occasion? This is different,, obviously than a crew or men standing waiting on air, but in a 2 man shop does one absolutely got to do a big paint job while the other sandblasts once a week?
It should tolerate a little overlap but there is a limit to what the service can sustain, how much the equipment costs, what the true usage is.
With 1/2 men a good chance the comp run time could be very limited, same for auto body. Not sanding 40 hrs a week with 1 man. Probably less than 10% even when busy.

 

[sberry]

With 30 men a rotary might work, one big enough for about 10 of them. The more the more applipacable. Rotary is good for machines that need continious process.

 

[Lucid Moments]

"Duty cycle is another important detail often over looked." What does this mean? CFM is all that matters in a shop environment. Air compressors should be sized for 100% duty cycle in a production shop environment.

Duty cycle does play an important part. A compressor rated at 50% duty cycle should only have the compressor running for 30 minutes out of an hour. Now clearly a higher cfm compressor isn't going to have to run as long, but that is just one factor.

Now from the OP it seems like his friend has a one man shop so there will be plenty of down time for a compressor so he doesn't need a compressor capable of 100% duty cycle but when you take that fact into consideration that may mean that he can work with a less expensive compressor.

 

[manwithtools]

I miss worded my post, I meant that for a production shop one should choose a continuous use rated compressor. Then there is no worry about duty cycle.

 

[Lucid Moments]

I miss worded my post, I meant that for a production shop one should choose a continuous use rated compressor. Then there is no worry about duty cycle.

Ah, then that makes a lot more sense.

 

[vw_tdi]

Hey folks.

He ended up going with the champion. Thanks for all the input. It was very helpful!

 

[engineer2]

The Champion is a good machine. No head gasket to worry about and very reliable. I bought two for them for work and built a panel to run them alternately (A-B).

 

[zedbee]

Powermate Vx PLA4708065 is a good option that can be considered. It is a 4.7 HP 80 gallon air compressor and upto $1100.