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Need electric water heater - any advice?

jpcjguy

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Hi all,
Just got back from out of town and apparently the bottom of my water heater is leaking. It is a Whirlpool Electric 80 gallon.
got back in Feb. 2010. So looking for recommendations on what to get now. Family of 5 - including two 15 year old boys, and 11 year old girl.
Gas is not an option as we are 100% electric house.
I have done basic plumbing and comfortable around electric (wired my 48x30 detached garage). I assume I can tackle this...

Thanks!
 

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mike93lx

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ok guess I need to research them - never heard of it (not that I keep up with water heater technology! :) )
Something I can install?
Yeah, they have a condensate drain that you'll need to plumb in.

No pressure tank? If you have a PRV, you really need to add one.
 

gsuty17

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ok guess I need to research them - never heard of it (not that I keep up with water heater technology! :) )
Something I can install?
Same installation as a typical electric. The term isn't wrong, but the implication is that it's tied into your HVAC system- which it is not. It just pulls heat from ambient air in addition to the electric heating elements.
 
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jpcjguy

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Right now it is in the corner of the garage so the current setup just has the pressure release point at the floor and would run out the garage door (due to slope). Would I need to figure out a full time drain now?
 

man-a-fre

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I would say your Whirlpool was great to last that long, I have a Richmond 50 gallon electric in a rental that is 15 years old and going strong, replaced the anode 3 times in it in the 15 years (just pm). I can recommend Richmond water heaters for cost and long life. Whatever you choose I would loosen the anode free before installing, I loosened mine with the air impact when I unloaded it in the garage before bringing it in the house to install,Once it is loosened the first time you are golden, it will be easy to change from then on out. Just loosen it and snug it back up. Some reason the factory ones are super tight on the first removal..
 
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mikedodge

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The easiest is to replace it with another one. Check the reviews of ones available locally.
I replaced ours the other year, it took a while since I never did that or much of any good plumbing work before but it was a simple enough job.
 

mike93lx

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Right now it is in the corner of the garage so the current setup just has the pressure release point at the floor and would run out the garage door (due to slope). Would I need to figure out a full time drain now?
Yes. You could run it into a condensate pump, then run that to the outside or a drain
 
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jpcjguy

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So I dug around and actually found the receipt from Lowes and lifetime warranty information! Called American Water Heater Company and the lady was super helpful. Now I have a return authorization number. Apparently, I can't get the same 80 gallon unit because of some residential energy legislation? Anyway, she said that I can go to Lowes and they will give me a credit toward a new unit that I can pick. Guess I am heading there later...
 
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jpcjguy

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I would say your Whirlpool was great to last that long, I have a Richmond 50 gallon electric in a rental that is 15 years old and going strong, replaced the anode 3 times in it in the 15 years (just pm). I can recommend Richmond. Whatever you choose I would loosen the anode free before installing, I loosened mine with the air impact when I unloaded it in the garage before bringing it in the house to install,Once it is loosened the first time you are golden, it will be easy to change from then on out. Just loosen it and snug it back up. Some reason the factory ones are super tight on the first removal..
Good call - I was never able to loosen the nut on this one - even with my huge air impact. Did not want to risk busting it completely so I left it alone...oh well
 

nadogail

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I look at the length of the warranty and try to get the best bang for my buck.
I also pay for the extended warranty and replacement agreement, at my age I no longer want to be forced to R&R a Water Heater.
I show my tenants the notice on the Water Heater that gives them the number to call when they need service.
 

mike93lx

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So I dug around and actually found the receipt from Lowes and lifetime warranty information! Called American Water Heater Company and the lady was super helpful. Now I have a return authorization number. Apparently, I can't get the same 80 gallon unit because of some residential energy legislation? Anyway, she said that I can go to Lowes and they will give me a credit toward a new unit that I can pick. Guess I am heading there later...
That doesn't ****.
 
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jpcjguy

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Holy ****. The heat pump models are expensive!!! Regular 50 gallon is $909 with 12 year warranty. The same size in heat pump is $1950 with 10 year warranty.
What is interesting is the regular says 3-5 people and the heat pump is 3-4 people…
 

mike93lx

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Holy ****. The heat pump models are expensive!!! Regular 50 gallon is $909 with 12 year warranty. The same size in heat pump is $1950 with 10 year warranty.
What is interesting is the regular says 3-5 people and the heat pump is 3-4 people…
The heat pump has lower output but will use a lot less power, especially in our mild climate. The "problem" is that our power is pretty cheap at about 13-14 cents/kwh. What do they list as the difference in annual kwh consumption?
 
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jpcjguy

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The regular say 569 estimated annual cost and the heat pump says 138 but I take that like my hybrid minivan getting 38 mpg 😂
 
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pembol

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The regular says 569/year and the heat pump model is $138/year for “estimated energy cost”
It would pay for itself 2.5 years - seems like a good investment. Also would the room/garage the water heater is benefit from some free AC? The heat pump units do cool the area they are in, unless you duct them. We have an all electric house and a heat pump unit and have been very happy with it.
 

pembol

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Another nice feature of our water heater is that you can schedule it to preheat during off peak power rates, which can save almost half on your power bill. This is with a heat pump water heater - maybe the standard ones are like this now as well?
 
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jpcjguy

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Lots of good points. I did call A.O. Smith and talk to the tech line. They said that the heat pump would definitely take longer to recover, which is something for me to think about with three kids taking back to back showers after sports. I will have to check with my utility company, Rappahannock electric if they have any rebates. I also like the point of simplicity.
 

mike93lx

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Lots of good points. I did call A.O. Smith and talk to the tech line. They said that the heat pump would definitely take longer to recover, which is something for me to think about with three kids taking back to back showers after sports. I will have to check with my utility company, Rappahannock electric if they have any rebates. I also like the point of simplicity.
Ah, I assumed you were on dominion. No idea on your utility
 

RoninB4

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-Not knowing your full situation but I would suggest making sure the drain bib on your new water heater is high enough off the floor to allow a drain hose to be attached. Draining the heater once a year or so helps prevent sediment from accumulating on the heating elements and the bottom of the tank itself. This is particularly important if you're on a well and also if the sacrificial anode rod isn't replaced every couple of years. Failure to replace the anode can lead to the tank rusting out and leaking. I had a tough time busting mine loose and I've got a 3/4 drive breaker bar. The heater got full of sediment which impaired the heating elements and hot water was in short supply. I finally had to replace the water heater because it was sitting flat on the concrete and there wasn't enough room to hook a drain hose to the bib on the heater to remove the sediment. I installed a new water heater on concrete blocks so there's plenty of room, used flexible lines to attach to the copper pipes so no soldered joints were needed. I will also say that if you have a water softener to keep up with the salt. I neglected to keep up with mine for about 6 months and the heating elements were greatly affected in that short time, I'm on a well with hard water. One more suggestion is to immediately replace the crappy factory drain bib with a ball valve that has a larger orifice. When sediment collects at the bottom of the tank it can make draining the tank near impossible, it sure did for me. Without going into detail suffice to say that you do NOT want to go through what I did just so the water heater operates as it should.
 

mike93lx

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-Not knowing your full situation but I would suggest making sure the drain bib on your new water heater is high enough off the floor to allow a drain hose to be attached. Draining the heater once a year or so helps prevent sediment from accumulating on the heating elements and the bottom of the tank itself. This is particularly important if you're on a well and also if the sacrificial anode rod isn't replaced every couple of years. Failure to replace the anode can lead to the tank rusting out and leaking. I had a tough time busting mine loose and I've got a 3/4 drive breaker bar. The heater got full of sediment which impaired the heating elements and hot water was in short supply. I finally had to replace the water heater because it was sitting flat on the concrete and there wasn't enough room to hook a drain hose to the bib on the heater to remove the sediment. I installed a new water heater on concrete blocks so there's plenty of room, used flexible lines to attach to the copper pipes so no soldered joints were needed. I will also say that if you have a water softener to keep up with the salt. I neglected to keep up with mine for about 6 months and the heating elements were greatly affected in that short time, I'm on a well with hard water. One more suggestion is to immediately replace the crappy factory drain bib with a ball valve that has a larger orifice. When sediment collects at the bottom of the tank it can make draining the tank near impossible, it sure did for me. Without going into detail suffice to say that you do NOT want to go through what I did just so the water heater operates as it should.
Regarding the drain, I would remove rhe oem drain and throw it away. Install a 3/4" ******, about 3" long, and a full port ball valve with a 3/4 npt to garden hose adapter. It will drain faster and it won't ever clog.

20240905_191332.jpg
 
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jpcjguy

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Great idea about replacing the drain with a ball valve. I am on a well and do keep up with the salt religiously.
As I do more research, it appears that if you go with a heat pump style to “up size it”. My main concern is going with a 50 gallon from my current 80 gallon. Granted we never had an issue with hot water, but who knows if the 80 gallon was ever even needed.
There are 80 gallon heat pump versions but none of them are in stock and I can’t get them until February 20 or so (Lowe’s credit being used) - I don’t have that kind of time. Those are also $2600-3000!!!
So it looks like I’m in the 50 gallon size range if I want to get it today (using my 677 credit at Lowe’s)
If I stick with the conventional style, my out-of-pocket would be around $150. The heat pump would be around $1300 out-of-pocket.

I’m not afraid to spend a little extra for the heat pump for efficiency sake, but I worry that going down in size and having a longer recovery time will be a constant annoyance.

If I go conventional, and realize that the drop from 80 to 50 gallon (and still faster recovery than heat pump) is noticeable to my family, I am only out $150. That won’t sting as bad for a decision standpoint.
 
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jpcjguy

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After poking around FB marketplace, I might have a line on a new 50 gallon conventional scratch and dent for 100 bucks - A.O. Smith model EEA9-50H55DV.
Maybe put that in and see how 50 gallon works for my family and hang onto the credit
 

RoninB4

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Great idea about replacing the drain with a ball valve.
-On my 4 year old water heater I tried draining the tank with 2 sessions of 4 hours each and still had water just below the upper heating element. The minimal orifice of the OEM drain bib was too clogged to allow the accumulated **** to pass. When comparing ball valves there are some with a noticeably larger orifice than others, you want the largest orifice possible. Would also suggest using brass components, which are more expensive by about $30, but worth the money for durability/sealing IMO. Plastic that is subjected to heat cycling (water heater) may also become embrittled over time and to have any part of the drain components shatter (bumped, flexed, etc.) unexpectedly would mean a flood. That's a pet theory I have no proof for but having worked with plastic a good bit of my life I just don't trust it in a critical component. JMO.
I am on a well and do keep up with the salt religiously.
-Not knowing your water I can only tell you mine. I'm in the foothills on Tn. and the water on my well has a rather high mineral and iron content. When I bought this home 7 years ago the water heater required draining to remove the mineral sediment (whitish deposits) that accumulated all the way up to the heating elements. Draining not possible (bib to near the floor) so I had to fashion an attachment to the wet/dry vacuum to remove water/sediment. I found minute rocks and assorted **** from the well among the sediment. My point? you may want to examine what's in the tank of the old heater that's in the supply stream. Also, if you have a high iron content (2 types of iron) in your water this can promote rust in your tank that might have promoted your old tank rusting/leaking. I installed a water filtration system from available components that includes 3 washable screens before filtration and the amount of black iron that accumulates in the bowls in a year is considerable. The bowls are clear acrylic so it's a visual check. I also had to replace the pressure tank and what came out of it (on the driveway) likely contributed to the early failure of it too. You're on a well too and if minerals/iron are causing problems with your other plumbing fixtures you may want to consider filtration. Yeah it can be expensive (couple of thousand?) and is a large PITA to plumb in but I don't experience a stopped up kitchen drain every 6 months, faucets that won't shut off, or a shortage of hot water for showers like I did after moving in here. That sacrificial anode in the water heater NEEDS to changed despite how difficult it may be to change, it amazed me how quickly it gets eaten. Changing it also allows you to sanitize the heater with a simple dose of hydrogen peroxide. If you have a sulfur (rotten egg) smell to your hot water it may be because of bacteria living/growing in the tank. I apologize for this long winded post but when city boy (me) moved to the country I had to learn all this the hard way and wanted to at least advise you to avoid further potential problems with your water and plumbing. Contact me if I can be of more help with this.

"If I go conventional, and realize that the drop from 80 to 50 gallon (and still faster recovery than heat pump) is noticeable to my family, I am only out $150. That won’t sting as bad for a decision standpoint."

-That's a compelling reason to go conventional. With multiple family members wanting showers the waiting for recovery time may force planning that will inconvenience everybody. I'm all in favor of energy efficiency but question the return time on energy savings, you'll have to do the math with real numbers. What brochures state is always optimistic. Plus, when your children move away in a couple of years and it's just you and wife how much energy savings will there be? Those HP heaters are quite expensive, especially if it rusts like the last one or an electronic board goes bad. More complex, much greater cost, unknown longevity. You have a lot to consider and wish you luck with your project.
 

RoninB4

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I spent less than $30 for everything pictured
-I just shot the OP a ballpark number off the top of my head, the two big box stores in the area have a stranglehold on commerce and can overcharge what they want to when you're the only game in town. If those components are mail-order I'd be a bit hesitant regarding the ball valve itself. In the race for cheaper prices quality sometimes suffers and a ball valve that doesn't completely shut off can be returned to a brick-and-mortar store, not so much for mail order. Maybe I need to go shopping where you go to.
50 gal does feel kind of small. I'd have no hesitation doing a heat pump at 80 gal but not the same at 50
-I don't see any reason why 2 conventional heaters can't be plumbed in to have 80 gallon capacity, quicker recovery, less cost, and simplicity. JMO
 
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jpcjguy

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RoninB4 - great info. We have been in the house about 14 years and luckily no issues with water. Just have a softener and soda ash injection system (from previous owner).
It will be interesting to see what happens when I inspect this water heater.
I am starting to lean toward conventional for now. Especially if out of pocket will be $100-$250 (if I go with scratch and dent)
Maybe Keep the credit for down the road and see how the 50 gallon does for the family….
 

mike93lx

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-I just shot the OP a ballpark number off the top of my head, the two big box stores in the area have a stranglehold on commerce and can overcharge what they want to when you're the only game in town. If those components are mail-order I'd be a bit hesitant regarding the ball valve itself. In the race for cheaper prices quality sometimes suffers and a ball valve that doesn't completely shut off can be returned to a brick-and-mortar store, not so much for mail order. Maybe I need to go shopping where you go to.

-I don't see any reason why 2 conventional heaters can't be plumbed in to have 80 gallon capacity, quicker recovery, less cost, and simplicity. JMO
SupplyHouse is legit and carries good stuff. I've bought a good amount of stuff for them and have that ball valve on both my water heater and my folk's

Realized I never mentioned the store. My bad. SupplyHouse.com
 
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