Need Help Adding Supply Valves to Capped PEX "Stubs"

[bmrisko]

To preface, when we built our house a few years ago, I had the builder rough in plumbing for a sink in the garage. He had originally plumbed in quarter turn valves, but the city inspector made the builder take them off and cap the PEX in order to pass inspection. What's done is done and I'm finally getting around to adding a sink to the garage.

Attached are some pics of what I'm working with. The "stubs" of pex are just shy of 1" exposed, but I can remove the chrome flanges and get a bit more space. I'd prefer to use Sharkbite valves which require ~1" of engagement. The issue is removing the plugs without damaging the existing pex as I only have so little of it to work with.

My thought was to use a Dremel cut-off wheel and very carefully cut off the crimp. I'm then hoping I can heat the Pex with a heat gun or MAPP and be able to pull out the plug without damaging the pex. I have very little plumbing experience, but this is what I came up with after doing some research.

Is there a better way to go about getting some 1/4 turn valves plumbed back in so I can hook up my faucet supply lines? Thanks in advance...

 

[garrett1812]

Personally I would not reuse any section of led that has been crimped on. I think you have just enough room, to with the chrome covers removed, to crimp on a new fitting. Not sure there would be enough left to use a sharkbite fitting.

 

[Todd.Brock]

I would be careful with a dremel b/c if it nicks the pipe near the wall you could make it worse. Two thoughts. You could probably work the crimp ring off and save the pipe to crimp in a pex to pep or pex to copper union then add a short piece of copper or pex to add your valve.

If you get off the crimp rings and the escutcheon plate, I wonder if the pex under the crimp and would remain deformed or if it would spring back to put a shark bite on.

Good luck - I would 90 up with 6 inch runs and then attach it to the wall and then put your valves on. Might look a little goofy but you don't risk knocking the line coming out of the block.

 

[Kaizen]

thanks for nothing mr plumber. I would have hoped he left more meat on it.
there actually is a tool to remove those crimps although probably not worth it. once the band is out the plug usually slides right out. dremel sounds like it would work. i'd tape the **** out of the rest of the pex in case it gets off target.
I would definitely use a crimp on connector. i'd be worried if the sharkbite has issues you're screwed.

 

[bmrisko]

Thanks for the replies so far...sounds like trying to use a sharkbite isn't the best idea. I was hoping to do this to avoid buying a crimp tool, but it looks like HD rents those, so not a big deal. Or I could just use this as an excuse to add more tools to my collection.

Looks are the least of my worries at this point, I'm just concerned with functionality. I like the idea of running short runs up after a 90 to give it a bit more protection.

 

[johninct]

I have used Snap-on flush cut cutters to cut off Viega PEX crimp bands to reuse the PEX fittings. I got , at the most, 2-3 removals before the cutters broke and would have to warranty them. Once I got the band off, sometimes I could not even pull the fitting out so I would have to slit the PEX line.

 

[tjdux]

Is there any slack in the pipe? Can you pull any out from the block? What's behind the block? House crawl space ornis that pex line coming up from thr floor?

The fittings are reusable when removed but I don't honestly know if you can put a crimp ring right over where a previous ring was on the actual pex tubing.

I would use the dremmel with cutoff or a grinder with a cut off wheel to remove the actual metal part of the plug leaving the ring intact. Then get the special ring cutting tool and cut the ring without damaging the stub remaining. Then use a 90 degree pick to pull the barb out of the pipe. Flush any metal shaving out with water from the lines (pex doesnt matter if its wet or dry)

Next install shut offs or 90s or couplers, your choice here but I feel you should add a coupler and give yourself at least a few extra inches of pipe.

Close the service valves, cross your fingers and prrssure the system. High fives all aroind if theres no leaks. If it does leak at the stub then cut back the the tiny amount where the ring was and replace the coupler and try again. PEX only needs about 1/2 to 3/4 inch to make a good crimp but that plumber screwed you and fixing it shoukd be on his dime IMHO but ive never had great luck with call backs.

A little heat with a hair drye4 or heat gun may help get the crimp ring portion of pipe back to regular size but i would try to nothing first then if that doesnt work heat then try trimming back the pipe. Pex is good stuff and i think you will get it but I would recomend the crimp connectors vs shark bite with your situation here.


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[richg99]

Never used PEX, but...your issue seems to be that the plumber left you very little to work with.

I'd cut the plasterboard and see if you can reposition the lines UP or DOWN. Doing so would give you more material with which to work. richg99

 

[tjdux]

Reread post and just want to go back to what is behind that wall? I know nobody wants to be in a crawl space but it its easy enough to get back there and just properly extend those stubs that would be the best long term fix.

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[59 wagon man]

bust the block and pull some more of the pex out or better yet bust the wall higher 2 90's up 2 90's out resecure lines and stub out new lines then patch cement

 

[Movover]

Cut the rings off lightly heat the tubing with a heat gun and pull the plugs out, crimp in a 90 with the stainless pinch rings and some longer stubs than some shutoffs, I have (knock on wood) never had a problem with reusing a pex crimp as long as i massaged it with heat, its very resilient. You can kink it and warm it up and it will resume its shape 90% of the time

 

[tjdux]

Cut the rings off lightly heat the tubing with a heat gun and pull the plugs out, crimp in a 90 with the stainless pinch rings and some longer stubs than some shutoffs, I have (knock on wood) never had a problem with reusing a pex crimp as long as i massaged it with heat, its very resilient. You can kink it and warm it up and it will resume its shape 90% of the time

+1 this is what i was suggesting just this gentleman has actually done it. Ive done plenty of pex work just never would leave myself such little to work with (and neither would you i imagine since it was somebody elses work)

Good luck buddy

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[bmrisko]

As for what is behind the block, it is a gravel filled raised slab. No crawlspace to access the tube in that area. I do appreciate the help thus far. I went ahead and bought a pex crimp tool and cutter to add to my arsenal.

 

[73RR]

Your plumber did you no favour, only himself.
There should have been a transition to copper so that the PEX was not left dangling.

There are various copper and brass fittings that could be used or even a PEX to IP fitting with a galv ****** fixed in the block wall....

My experience says that removing the plug and installing a new fitting will leak about 50% of the time.
Since you cannot access the other side of the wall then you should be thinking about breaking into the cmu so that you can make a proper transition.

 

[tjdux]

Dang thats too bad you can't get back there. Theres still a chance you can get it to work by gwtting that plug out and removing the ring and going from there...

Getting the pex tools will pay for themselves compared to 10 or so shark bites. Granted you may never do that much plumbing again but bare minimum its good tool box cred.

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[soapii]

To keep from damaging the lines I would buy or rent the copper ring cutter.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/SharkBite-Copper-Crimp-Ring-Removal-Tool-23055/202032951

--Joe

 

[bmrisko]

To keep from damaging the lines I would buy or rent the copper ring cutter.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/SharkBite-Copper-Crimp-Ring-Removal-Tool-23055/202032951

--Joe

Just bought that as well.

 

[73RR]

It seems that all of the crimp rings in my supply are stainless steel....not sure that I have even seen copper rings.
SS rings
https://sp.yimg.com/ib/th?id=OIP.gZaHIPmjF8ZD7BgBnOWAywEsEs&pid=15.1&rs=1&c=1&qlt=95&w=115&h=115

 

[Radix2]

I think you have all the ideas on ways to crimp back on to that stub.

I don't know why the inspector would not have just asked for plugs on the other side of the stop - to prevent any inadvertent damage if the stop got turned on. knuckelheads.

 

[Radix2]

Just bought that as well.

That crimp removal tool will most likely damage the tubing. You were on the right track with careful cutting with the dremel and light prying . imo.

That tool is for when you cut a fitting out and want to take the crimp off to reuse the fitting.

 

[bmrisko]

That crimp removal tool will most likely damage the tubing. You were on the right track with careful cutting with the dremel and light prying . imo.

That tool is for when you cut a fitting out and want to take the crimp off to reuse the fitting.

Makes sense...I think once I remove the chrome flanges/escutcheons (not sure correct term?), I will have a bit more tube to work with, but not much.

I'm going to first try cutting off the cap and getting the crimp off with as little damage as possible to the PEX. I bought some 90° barbs to crimp in and then will add some PEX off that before adding a shutoff. Should give me some more room in the future if I need to change things out.

I wish I had paid more attention to this before we closed, but like I said it is what it is...lesson learned. I had plenty of other stuff on the punchlist to get remedied before closing, this would have been a nice addition.

 

[bmrisko]

It seems that all of the crimp rings in my supply are stainless steel....not sure that I have even seen copper rings.
SS rings
https://sp.yimg.com/ib/th?id=OIP.gZaHIPmjF8ZD7BgBnOWAywEsEs&pid=15.1&rs=1&c=1&qlt=95&w=115&h=115

From my research, I think those are actually PEX "clamps"...the crimps always seem to be copper. As evidenced, I'm no authority on the subject though...

 

[Road_runner]

Just been here but with a central heating valve that had the plastic version of a shark bite.

Couldn't get a valve the same fitting to the pipe, so I ended up cutting off the grip ring to free the remainder of the connector and using a standard 15mm union fitting (with an olive) instead. In the UK, we have to put a stiffening sleeve inside the pipe. Luckily my connection closed up perfectly and so far no leaks.

Best of luck whichever way you go. The folks in the plumbing shop were bemused by my predicament but I know it ain't no fun when you are the one left with the problem.

 

[ynned]

I just got done replacing all the plumbing in my house with pex. Due mostly to poor planning, but also because we're living in the house, I had to make a lot of temporary connections which had to be revised later. I cut many of those rings with a Dremel, and pulled the fitting right out; no heat, or even tools, just pulled right out. Put the new fitting in, no problems, no leaks.

 

[bmrisko]

I just got done replacing all the plumbing in my house with pex. Due mostly to poor planning, but also because we're living in the house, I had to make a lot of temporary connections which had to be revised later. I cut many of those rings with a Dremel, and pulled the fitting right out; no heat, or even tools, just pulled right out. Put the new fitting in, no problems, no leaks.

Awesome, that gives me hope!

 

[Dirtydan69]

I've even used a mini sawzall or an oscillating tool to cut them off. No issues.

 

[tjdux]

I've even used a mini sawzall or an oscillating tool to cut them off. No issues.

Yeah pec is designed to have easily removed fittings the risk os putting a crimp ring in the exact same spot a second time. Also i would fear nicking the pipe with a power saw but ive never tried either.

Did you put rings in the exact spot twice?

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[73RR]

From my research, I think those are actually PEX "clamps"...the crimps always seem to be copper. As evidenced, I'm no authority on the subject though...

I have now learned about copper rings, thanks.... I'll stick with the ss pieces since they are easy to remove when necessary....

 

[chaosracing]

Crimping the pex where it was crimped is no big problem, as long as when you remove the existing plugs that you do not deform the pex. I have removed, replaced and reclamped fittings in pex with no issues. I do not use the copper rings, I use the stainless steel crimp rings. You can remove them easily without the removal tool.

Your issue if you choose to use shark bite fittings is there is no room to remove it if you have a problem, and cutting them apart is a major PITA without damaging the pipe. I would remove the plug and ring, cut about 1/2" off and then use a PEX 90 and crimp it in place.

 

[bmrisko]

Crimping the pex where it was crimped is no big problem, as long as when you remove the existing plugs that you do not deform the pex. I have removed, replaced and reclamped fittings in pex with no issues. I do not use the copper rings, I use the stainless steel crimp rings. You can remove them easily without the removal tool.

Your issue if you choose to use shark bite fittings is there is no room to remove it if you have a problem, and cutting them apart is a major PITA without damaging the pipe. I would remove the plug and ring, cut about 1/2" off and then use a PEX 90 and crimp it in place.

Thanks, that is my plan. I see they have both brass and plastic PEX 90s...does it matter which is used? Price is withing $0.50 of each other, so cost obviously isn't an issue.

 

[chaosracing]

I have always used the brass fittings. Buy I don't think it would make a difference.

 

[Boomer343]

Damn that is nasty.

If I was doing it I would first cut the plates off as they are only going to interfere. Pair of tin snips will work just watch the pex.

If chipping the block out is an option I would then do that to see if more slack could be obtained.

Cutting the band without damaging the Pex is tricky especially where you have to work. If you use the dremel wheels spend the money on the ones that have the quick change feature. You can by the quick change mandrel and disks in a kit.

If those plugs are plastic perhaps drilling them out without spinning too much would be a partial option to making the band easier to remove but I've never done any that way.

 

[bmrisko]

Thanks...I've already got the dremel cutting wheels kit w/ the quick change, which is what I had planned on trying first. I don't mind chipping the block out, but only as a last resort. Plates are definitely coming off with no plans to put them back on unless I can fit some thin 2-piece ones on there, don't really care about the aesthetics. I've already tried pulling some slack and unfortunately there is none.

 

[Todd.Brock]

Need Help Adding Supply Valves to Capped PEX "Stubs"

Good luck on the plan - they make thin covers that have a slit in them so you can cover a pipe without having to slide over the end. Should be with other plumbing stuff at HD or wherever.

I would use the brass unions as well.

 

[tlmartin84]

I have done this..............

I used an air cutoff tool though. I cut until the ring was almost cut, the slid a screw driver in the cut and gave it a twist, the remain little bit of metal cracked. I continued to spread it with the screw driver until it was loose enough I could slip it off.

Then just warm it up and slip the joint out......not a big deal.

 

[tjdux]

Hey would love to see pics on how you do eventually get this fixed. Been following since you posted.

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[bmrisko]

Hey would love to see pics on how you do eventually get this fixed. Been following since you posted.

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I'll definitely be sure to update. We've got our first little one due in a month or so and my to-do list is a mile long. Hoping to get the sink plumbed in sometime soon.

 

[tjdux]

I'll definitely be sure to update. We've got our first little one due in a month or so and my to-do list is a mile long. Hoping to get the sink plumbed in sometime soon.

Congratulations on the little one. Lots of work but lots of fun too.

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[Movover]

Thanks, that is my plan. I see they have both brass and plastic PEX 90s...does it matter which is used? Price is withing $0.50 of each other, so cost obviously isn't an issue.

My house I use the Plastic ones, we have overly SOFT water and it will eat a pex brass piece in about 5 years, I have been replacing the brass ones one by one as they start to fail.

 

[straps57]

Remember KISS. I would just remove the crimps and chrome covers, throw some shark bites on it and be done. Deal with a leak when it happens. Shark bites work great.