Need Help Deciding Between Welders

[philbar715]

I am a hobby welder and a DIY person. Made a steel workbench, welded some exhaust on my car, and welded a few parts for a broken tiller. Havent welded anything that requires any real structural integrity yet, but I would like to be able to weld in subframe connectors on a car, for example. Or use a spool gun for thinner aluminium (~1/4").

I currently have the 90amp flux welder and im starting to hate it. I am pretty set on the new Harbor Freight Titanium brand welders, I just need help deciding between the 140 and the 170. Also throw in the Eastwood Mig 175 because it comes with a spool gun already.

It seems that the Titanium 140 can weld up to 5/16" steel and the Titanium 170 can do 3/8". Power is not an issue, I have 240v in my garage with 10ga wiring (30amp breaker) and 120v on 12ga wiring (20amp breaker). Is it worth an extra $100 to go with the larger one to weld slightly thicker steel, or even spend more money and get the eastwood 175 with spool gun?

 

[Ign]

Ok the 140 is a 120V welder so 5/16" is ridiculously optimistic. I'd bank on 3/16" max with shielding, maybe 1/4" w flux

The 170 and 3/8" is also optimistic. 5/16" maybe but that's kind of an odd wall thickness in the US (although I do have some larger rectangle tube in 5/16 w.t.)

Really you answered your question - because you have easy access to 240V, do that.

 

[Wamsutta]

Are you sure that 30 amp circuit will do it?

What's the rated input for the max output?

In other words, what's the machine pulling in when you have it turned all the way up?

 

[ATC]

Spend the extra $200 and get a Lincoln 180. There's no way I would spend $500+ on an electrical tool from HF with a 90-day warranty.

Lincoln wins with warranty, parts/consumable availability, weld consistency, etc...
In say 4-5 years when you need something....is the 'Titanium" brand even going to be around?

 

[bczygan]

Spend the extra $200 and get a Lincoln 180. There's no way I would spend $500+ on an electrical tool from HF with a 90-day warranty.

Lincoln wins with warranty, parts/consumable availability, weld consistency, etc...
In say 4-5 years when you need something....is the 'Titanium" brand even going to be around?

This.

Bill

 

[Kaizen]

I have been very happy with my Eastwood 135. Great warrantee. I’d get it over the harbor freight. Hobart I find overpriced and less options then the Eastwood last I looked.


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[Wamsutta]

A Miller 255 for example requires 31.4 amps input for it's max rated output of 230 amps.

https://www.millerwelds.com/equipment/welders/mig-gmaw/millermatic-255-mig-welder-m30174

 

[philbar715]

Ok the 140 is a 120V welder so 5/16" is ridiculously optimistic. I'd bank on 3/16" max with shielding, maybe 1/4" w flux

The 170 and 3/8" is also optimistic. 5/16" maybe but that's kind of an odd wall thickness in the US (although I do have some larger rectangle tube in 5/16 w.t.)

Really you answered your question - because you have easy access to 240V, do that.

So really its worth it to get a 240v welder in any case? Regardless of brand, etc, if the price difference is $100?

Are you sure that 30 amp circuit will do it?

What's the rated input for the max output?

In other words, what's the machine pulling in when you have it turned all the way up?

According to the manual, the 170 uses ~27amps at max on 240V.

Spend the extra $200 and get a Lincoln 180. There's no way I would spend $500+ on an electrical tool from HF with a 90-day warranty.

Lincoln wins with warranty, parts/consumable availability, weld consistency, etc...
In say 4-5 years when you need something....is the 'Titanium" brand even going to be around?

The cheapest I can find for the Lincoln is ~$685 at northern tool. The Titanium 170 goes on sale for $450, and the 140 goes on sale for $350.

That ~$180 difference between the HF welder and a Lincoln is enough to get me a used or new gas bottle and some argon/Co2. In 4-5 years, I'll either troubleshoot the HF welder (replace leads, parts on leads are the same as the big name welders now, replace whatever part I can find for it) or just replace it.

For $450, even if it lasts only 5 years and something breaks that I cant fix, I'll have used it for $90 a year, or ~$8 a month and I can buy something else in the 400-500 range that has newer technology and perhaps newer/better features.

From what I can tell, none of the Lincoln/Hobart welders have an inductance setting or a digital display that show the wire feed rate and voltage. It also looks like the Lincoln has tapped voltage selection vs the HF welder's "infinite/smooth" voltage selection.

It also looks like the Lincoln is a transformer welder and the harbor freight welder is an inverter style.

 

[ATC]

Sounds like you have your mind made up. Best of luck with it

 

[MarineScott]

I think for the warranties I would stick with, Miller, Hobart, or Lincoln. These 3 have been around for awhile, along with their customer service.

 

[sberry]

The tapped voltage on the Linc works very well and yes,,, the 240v versions are worth the extra money. They are 2x the 140 for the difference in price. They run 030 wire which is wayyyyy better for structural work.
Look at the power requirements, a 140 is 20A @ 120v and that 170 is 27A at 240.

 

[bob15]

So really its worth it to get a 240v welder in any case? Regardless of brand, etc, if the price difference is $100?
According to the manual, the 170 uses ~27amps at max on 240V.
The cheapest I can find for the Lincoln is ~$685 at northern tool. The Titanium 170 goes on sale for $450, and the 140 goes on sale for $350.

That ~$180 difference between the HF welder and a Lincoln is enough to get me a used or new gas bottle and some argon/Co2. In 4-5 years, I'll either troubleshoot the HF welder (replace leads, parts on leads are the same as the big name welders now, replace whatever part I can find for it) or just replace it.

For $450, even if it lasts only 5 years and something breaks that I cant fix, I'll have used it for $90 a year, or ~$8 a month and I can buy something else in the 400-500 range that has newer technology and perhaps newer/better features.

From what I can tell, none of the Lincoln/Hobart welders have an inductance setting or a digital display that show the wire feed rate and voltage. It also looks like the Lincoln has tapped voltage selection vs the HF welder's "infinite/smooth" voltage selection.

It also looks like the Lincoln is a transformer welder and the harbor freight welder is an inverter style.

Buy the Lincoln (or a Miller) and skip the HF unit. Who cares about tapped voltage selection? Never had any issues with tapped voltage, even back when I first learned to mig weld on a 250volt Millermatic 200, some 35 years ago.

My Lincoln SP-170T is over 25 years old and has gone through countless spools with zero issues, and that is a tapped selector. Think that HF unit will last that long? FYI, I paid $700 cash for that Lincoln back in the early 90's.

Furthermore, buy a welder where you can get consumables close buy....

 

[flushcut]

Spend the extra $200 and get a Lincoln 180. There's no way I would spend $500+ on an electrical tool from HF with a 90-day warranty.

Lincoln wins with warranty, parts/consumable availability, weld consistency, etc...
In say 4-5 years when you need something....is the 'Titanium" brand even going to be around?

^this

 

[Sycan]

Are you sure that 30 amp circuit will do it?

What's the rated input for the max output?

In other words, what's the machine pulling in when you have it turned all the way up?

Interesting fact, my Miller 211 has a 16 awg power cord, I don't have much power in my shop yet, so I have to really watch how I use it. I can run it wide open on a 20 amp breaker

 

[sberry]

It has a 14 cord.
It can be turned up far enough it will trip a 20 and easily if using 030 wire. (If its new and an inverter may be slightly different).

 

[sberry]

Whoops, I glance at the spec sheet. I see it will crank out on 120v. Not quite at the top but almost. I bet it might even run 030 on 120. I see the input at top end is way less on 240 than the old model.

 

[BD1]

IF you go with a 110 volt machine you'll need a dedicated circuit and aluminum is out of the question. A 220 volt is your best bet . That 170 may do aluminum thin stuff.
IF you only want to buy once , the Hobart is a proven machine. Their 210 is relatively cheap and is 110/220. It can usually be found at Farm and fleet for $800.00 and the spoolgun for $200.00.
They had a rebate at Christmas. The larger machine will definitely be a plus.
It will provide a better duty cycle running at lower amps. The small machine could be running at max and duty cycle and breaker maybe a issue.

https://www.farmandfleet.com/products/678611-hobart-handler-210mvp-mig-welder.html

https://www.northerntool.com/shop/t...MI6KWsjNLj4AIV5B6tBh2KDQNQEAYYByABEgLDP_D_BwE

 

[muduck18]

I Replaced my harbor freight welder with a used Hobart beta mig 180 off Craigslist.
I paid 650$ for the welder, bottle, and a bunch of consumable... 9 years ago...
Been through several large spools, dozens of tanks of gas, and had no issues with it.
Welded everything from sheet metal to truck frames and am very pleased with it.
The difference between a pos welder and a good one of the same “size” is noticeable.

I would never go back to a HF model.

 

[sberry]

I havnt used the new HF but in some fairness these are new models, I suspect clones in somewhat the same fashion as the Eastwood.

 

[sberry]

I hadn't looked at the new 211 OM, I did earlier for a 200 synch as I wired one recently but looks like the same specs generally. I do see an added note to the wiring instructions which is,,,, do not use the plug to rate the max opcd but,,,,, I think that still refers when the minimum wire size is used. They are not very clear with this and they should be considering the diy installs with this class of machine. I believe it must be able to be plugged to a 50 circuit since it comes with it but,,, that is new language, not sure when they started using it.
This is why they warn against cutting off and changing plugs, there is over current protection in the adapter for hi current circuits.
The 120V adapter doesn't have it, its got a 15 end and limited to 20A circuits. The circuit breaker provides protection for the cord up to the switch and any internal thermal protection.

 

[Jazz1]

Buy a welder you can purchase parts for down the road. I have a Air Liquide, they quit making them but parts still available 10 years later. Air Liquide now offers Miller which would be my next welder if I required a new one.

 

[BroncoAZ]

My first mig welder was a cheapie from HF about 20 years ago for $200, I couldn’t get a decent bead on clean 1/8” steel. I returned it and upgraded to the Hobart 130 that HF sold for $400 at the time, a much better machine for about double the price. In 2002 I upgraded to a Lincoln 200, what a great machine. I had wanted the Miller 215 because it came with a free spoolgun, but the Miller was backordered and I was mid contract where I’d bit off more than what my Hobart 130 could do. The Lincoln cost the same but had an all metal drive system. I put 360# of wire through it in the first 3 months welding 1/4” frames and it never missed a beat.

Buying a cheap welder or plasma cutter is a recipe for failure. Spend real money on quality equipment to get professional results. If you’re just booger welding garden decorations that’s one thing, but the OP is talking about vehicle subframes and other important stuff where a failed weld could cause an accident. 220v is the only way to go for 1/4” or larger.

 

[AngryBeaver]

i have a lincoln 180 or 185. ( can't remember but its newer and larger than my dads 175 that he's had since the 90's.). its still a small machine with an ok duty cycle. I've welded a lot of stuff with it that most people wouldn't think about trying.

now, it will not weld 1/8" aluminum with a spool gun. it doesn't have the ***. it will weld 18-20 gauge aluminum but its nothing like running a spool gun on a big machine or better yet, a tig.

you aren't welding 1/4" steel on a 110V machine. nothing thats going to hold anyways. sure you can lay some earth worms down on it and make it look like a weld, but nothing that is going to hold.

Get a 220 machine.

if the lincoln price is too much, look into the Green Everlast units. they are dollar for dollar better than the RED or Blue welders with better warranties. 5 year consumer, 2 year commercial. My 350 amp tig machine has been phenomenal and 2x the duty cycle that any red or blue welder has. I"m getting a big green mig for my next purchase.

 

[BajaScout]

Miller 211 has a $200 rebate.

Great machine that can be used with 110v or 220V.

I have an older version and I used it in my welding classes because I wanted to get used to it vice the big welders they have. Even did some certification welds with it.

For the hobbyist, it certainly is a good machine. Upgraded the ground clamp. I also installed the correct 220V outlet in my garage. For certain you should not change the plug on the machine.

 

[philbar715]

The Everlast welders are something I havent considered, thanks for those who suggested. The 200amp versions of those are in the ~$500 price range and have a 5 year warranty, and the appear to be inverter welders.

Thanks for the input everyone and all of the information! I'll for sure go with a 240v welder since I have 240v in my garage and the consensus seems to be no reason to save the little bit of money on a 120 machine. I have all copper wiring in my garage as well, so no worries with alu wiring (except I have 4gauge alu wire feeding the garage to a subpanel). So Im good to go with electrical for the size of welder thats in my price range. I have three 240v locations with all ran with 10 gauge copper wire on their own 30amp breakers.

Ideally I want to spend around $400, $500 max unless I can get a big name welder for around that price. And im looking to buy in about 2 months so I have time to continue to do research and wait for any sales that might popup.

 

[sberry]

A 10/30 circuit is tailor made for these machines. It gives them every ounce of help they can get from the circuit. Its one of the basic reasons they are so much better than a smaller unit limited to a 120v 20A.

 

[Sycan]

I'm nearing the end of a big aluminum welding project with my 211, the machine is great, but I think the spool gun isn't really meant for production work. I'm at about 5000 inches of weld, one inch at a time

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[sberry]

Its definitely a little small for that. How long did this take, is it yours, anyone waiting on time or money for it?

It takes me about a minute arc on time to go around one of those 4 inch hydrants but I use some melt or admix for filler to reduce the wire used if I am paying attn. It is Hobart 210 with spool.

 

[Sycan]

Its definitely a little small for that. How long did this take, is it yours, anyone waiting on time or money for it?

It takes me about a minute arc on time to go around one of those 4 inch hydrants but I use some melt or admix for filler to reduce the wire used if I am paying attn. It is Hobart 210 with spool.

Planned winter project, the trailer won't run until April. I'm about 30hrs into it right now, about 80% done. Not bad when Wilson, which manufactures the trailer, told the owner about 3 days with 2 guys welding. I've been on and off on it for a month, weather has been terrible, plus lost a week waiting on parts for my Miller bobcat that I use to power the 211.

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[BajaScout]

The Everlast welders are something I havent considered, thanks for those who suggested. The 200amp versions of those are in the ~$500 price range and have a 5 year warranty, and the appear to be inverter welders.

Thanks for the input everyone and all of the information! I'll for sure go with a 240v welder since I have 240v in my garage and the consensus seems to be no reason to save the little bit of money on a 120 machine. I have all copper wiring in my garage as well, so no worries with alu wiring (except I have 4gauge alu wire feeding the garage to a subpanel). So Im good to go with electrical for the size of welder thats in my price range. I have three 240v locations with all ran with 10 gauge copper wire on their own 30amp breakers.

Ideally I want to spend around $400, $500 max unless I can get a big name welder for around that price. And im looking to buy in about 2 months so I have time to continue to do research and wait for any sales that might popup.

Having an option to use 120V is nice when you need to haul the welder somewhere else and all that is available is 120V. I have 220 in the garage but sometimes I need to weld other places. Hauled it to a friend or two to help them out and all they had was 120V.

 

[mrvm]

I am a hobby welder and a DIY person. Made a steel workbench, welded some exhaust on my car, and welded a few parts for a broken tiller. Havent welded anything that requires any real structural integrity yet, but I would like to be able to weld in subframe connectors on a car, for example. Or use a spool gun for thinner aluminium (~1/4").

I currently have the 90amp flux welder and im starting to hate it. I am pretty set on the new Harbor Freight Titanium brand welders, I just need help deciding between the 140 and the 170. Also throw in the Eastwood Mig 175 because it comes with a spool gun already.

It seems that the Titanium 140 can weld up to 5/16" steel and the Titanium 170 can do 3/8". Power is not an issue, I have 240v in my garage with 10ga wiring (30amp breaker) and 120v on 12ga wiring (20amp breaker). Is it worth an extra $100 to go with the larger one to weld slightly thicker steel, or even spend more money and get the eastwood 175 with spool gun?

FYI: You received a bunch of good information on pro quality welders that make a lot of sense. If you're still interested in HF the Vulcan line offers more power and a better warranty than the Titanium. If you want to check out the Vulcan they do have a 1 yr return policy that might get some people to put them to the "test".

 

[gmwelder86]

Nobody ever says they have to much welding machine. Can always turn down hard to welder thicker material with a smaller machine.

 

[Sycan]

Its definitely a little small for that. How long did this take, is it yours, anyone waiting on time or money for it?

It takes me about a minute arc on time to go around one of those 4 inch hydrants but I use some melt or admix for filler to reduce the wire used if I am paying attn. It is Hobart 210 with spool.

I wish I had gone with the Hobart 210 over the Miller 211. I had a Hobart 180 for years that I loved, but adding the spoolgun was going to get complicated.I am officially not a fan of an infinite voltage adjustment, much prefer the Hobarts 4 or 5 voltage settings. The Miller I find myself using the auto set on steel, because I like to adjust more with my technique than with the settings. Basically give me about three settings and I'll fine tune myself as needed. I don't do much aluminum at all, just a few small projects here and there. At least until this cow trailer, which has provided me with a ton of practice on something non structural.

 

[speed bump]

Nobody ever says they have to much welding machine. Can always turn down hard to welder thicker material with a smaller machine.

Having accidentally ended up with to much welder I disagree. If you only have one welder once you go past the 200a MIG you are starting to limit yourself as a home gamer. Reasons being, as much as everyone says they need to weld 1/2" they rarely if ever do and that 200a machine will weld it in multiple passes. A 200+ machine takes up a lot of space, they don't run 2lb spools of wire, and a 300a gun with a 12 ft whip gets in the way a lot. A big machine is likely optimized to run 0.035 wire and may or may not be as nice when you turn it down and run 0.023 wire.

Back to the original question, personally for a big welder I have skipped inverters because if it blows there's a good chance it's not worth repairing versus a transformer welder where it is. That being said if you are comfortable with potentially scrapping $500 inverters are so nice for size and dual voltage options they offer. So consider the extended warranty and buy the cheapest thing that you are happy with how it welds.

 

[CGT80]

The miller 211 inverter is great. It even welds 1/8 to 3/16 aluminum surprisingly well on 120v (I forgot the 250v plug for a remote job, otherwise would always run on 240v). 3/8" steel is easy for this machine. My brother wants to dump his miller 252 and get a 220 as the 252 is no good for use on job sites and it is unusual for us to weld over 3/8" and we can just run multiple passes when needed.

At 460 amps and 1,000 pounds, my tig welder is a bit big, but smaller machines are still big, although a syncrowave would at least have square wave, unlike mine.

The Miller 220 would be very capable bit of course limited compared to my big machine and lower on features than a dynasty. For mig only, you can't go wrong with a 211.

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[ZRX61]

If it were my money:


#1, Miller
#2, Hobart
#3, Lincoln or Esab


I wouldn't be buying anything from Horrible Fright OR Eastwood.