Need help deciding generator purchase

[babzog]

Hey folks,

So 3-4 years ago, I purchased a Champion 6500w generator (11hp Champion motor) for use in powering the home during an outage. Loud as hell, dirty power, but it keeps the essentials running.

Last year and this, I've been taking it to the (snowcross) track to power the trailer. We camp in there and use electric oil heaters. Have lights, microwave, fridge, battery charger, coffee maker, toaster, kettle, sandwich grill.... all the comforts of home. Need a little power management but that's okay.

Lately, it's been getting really tough to start. Carb is clean and valve clearance is spot on, but it won't start without a shot of carb cleaner. Used to start first or second pull. Had a guy check it for me while replacing the pull cord and he said compression is down to about 60psi. Also getting a few noise complaints, but am thinking of building a foam box for it and just placing it better to counter that... don't want to annoy my (trackside) neighbours.

I am wondering a few things... engine replacement is probably the cheapest option, but what engine would be a good choice? This one has less than 300hrs on it, which to me, sounds ridiculously low. Don't these small engines run forever?

Also considering just biting the bullet and buying an inverter genset. Some of the folks are using Kipor gennies, but I learned they are china sets with poor support. Scratch that. Found a used (slightly at only 29hrs) honda EU6500 inverter for $3200USD, but there is no warranty. A local dealer has a special this week on Subaru, 15% off, meaning I can get a RG4300iS inverter for a little more than $3200CDN, with a 5yr warranty.

The Honda's have good rep, so I'm not sure I'm all that worried about no warranty... or should I be? It also has the capacity I need (the subaru has a rated cap of 3800w, two electric heaters will chew that up with little to spare, but I can always power manage when I need to use the hungrier appliances).

So, three questions:

1. Is there anything I can do with it now to make my current genny start easily, or is it done?

2. What would be a good engine replacement choice for it?

2. Which way would you go: Used but nearly new Honda w/ no warranty or brand new Subaru w/ 5yr warranty? Both inverters, cost approx the same, Honda has higher capacity.

Thanks!

 

[Whiskyb]

My honda is super quiet with no problems. We dont even try to hide it when camping. It goes right there where we are.

If its too loud for us its too loud for our neighbours

 

[redmed]

Honda inverters are great and Yamaha's are better.

 

[Art From De Leon]

Why not go to Northern Tool and price a replacement Honda engine?

 

[zmotorsports]

Hey folks,

So 3-4 years ago, I purchased a Champion 6500w generator (11hp Champion motor) for use in powering the home during an outage. Loud as hell, dirty power, but it keeps the essentials running.

Last year and this, I've been taking it to the (snowcross) track to power the trailer. We camp in there and use electric oil heaters. Have lights, microwave, fridge, battery charger, coffee maker, toaster, kettle, sandwich grill.... all the comforts of home. Need a little power management but that's okay.

Lately, it's been getting really tough to start. Carb is clean and valve clearance is spot on, but it won't start without a shot of carb cleaner. Used to start first or second pull. Had a guy check it for me while replacing the pull cord and he said compression is down to about 60psi. Also getting a few noise complaints, but am thinking of building a foam box for it and just placing it better to counter that... don't want to annoy my (trackside) neighbours.

I am wondering a few things... engine replacement is probably the cheapest option, but what engine would be a good choice? This one has less than 300hrs on it, which to me, sounds ridiculously low. Don't these small engines run forever?

Also considering just biting the bullet and buying an inverter genset. Some of the folks are using Kipor gennies, but I learned they are china sets with poor support. Scratch that. Found a used (slightly at only 29hrs) honda EU6500 inverter for $3200USD, but there is no warranty. A local dealer has a special this week on Subaru, 15% off, meaning I can get a RG4300iS inverter for a little more than $3200CDN, with a 5yr warranty.

The Honda's have good rep, so I'm not sure I'm all that worried about no warranty... or should I be? It also has the capacity I need (the subaru has a rated cap of 3800w, two electric heaters will chew that up with little to spare, but I can always power manage when I need to use the hungrier appliances).

So, three questions:

1. Is there anything I can do with it now to make my current genny start easily, or is it done?

2. What would be a good engine replacement choice for it?

2. Which way would you go: Used but nearly new Honda w/ no warranty or brand new Subaru w/ 5yr warranty? Both inverters, cost approx the same, Honda has higher capacity.

Thanks!

You have to diagnose the engine to determine the exact cause. I would do a cylinder leakage test to determine if the problem lies with a burnt valve or a piston/bore issue. That would definetely be the cheapest route to go if you fix it yourself.

If looking to upgrade, I have had good luck with Honda, Yamaha and Robin generators. I would also throw in the mix Generac if using for a backup generator.

If looking for a true backup genset look at Onan.

Mike.

 

[mooseracing]

So, three questions:

1. Is there anything I can do with it now to make my current genny start easily, or is it done?


Thanks!

Figure out why it has low compression. Are the valves leaking or is the rings?

Vavles closing or does it need a valve job?

 

[babzog]

Figure out why it has low compression. Are the valves leaking or is the rings?

Vavles closing or does it need a valve job?

How do I determine this? Presume it's the similar suggestion made above, but, what do I need in order to do this check? Or is it cheaper for me to take it to a shop and have someone do it?

 

[-Hey_Now-]

Babz go get the EU6500. Used it in the past and made me a fan. Noise reduction is well worth it. Buy it in the US, Honda Power in Ontario charge too much.

 

[olytdi]

Just went through the whole "which genset, what fuels, how big, portable vs. auto" etc. Went with the Honda EU6500.

Spent a long time analyzing and came up with these parameters:

I wanted quiet even if it cost a bunch.

Multifuel -- earthquakes kills Nat. Gas.; power outages kill gasoline. During power outages, I'll have unlimited NG fuel. Gasoline as a backup and if the NG grid is down. Propane as the backup to the backup.

Flexibility -- portable, can take it elsewhere or anywhere.

Cost -- bought mine with 30 hours on it for well under $3K. Runs beautifully.

Reliability -- I found nothing but unreliability with regard to fixed NG standby gensets. Don't believe me? Check out the forums. You won't see that volume of problem posts on the Honda inverter forums.

I used an interlock kit at the panel, wired a dedicated weatherproof box for input, and am finishing the gas piping to the shop where this will run under a roof (carport). Quick connect gas and a 30Amp cord and it (to me) is the perfect setup.

Absolutely love this genset. Very sophisticated, quiet, fuel efficient, flexible, and does what I need it to.

 

[youngnstudly]

Alright, I figured I would throw my input in here just for fun. First off, if you're looking to fix your current engine, as others mentioned, you need to do a little investigative work.

A lack of compression is a bad thing, but with many of these small single or 2 cylinder engines, compression is more than just the heat needed to make combustion happen for the power stroke....it's also what a lot of the factory diaphragm fuel pumps rely on to draw fuel into the carb from the gas tank. No vacuum means no fuel through the intake and into the cylinder(s).

If you do a tear down, you can visually inspect the cylinder bore for extreme wear, and check for any obvious (burnt, bent, etc) signs on the valves and seats. Replace valve(s) if needed, or simply hand lap the valves you have (if they look okay) and see what you end up with. You can magic marker the valves and seats and spin each valve against it's seat to check the contact pattern between them).

If the cylinder bore looks questionable, I'd be looking for a replacement engine...BUT, I wouldn't just go out and buy one w/o tearing into this one first. Owning a generator means knowing how to work on it, IMO. If you consider the current engine junk, how can you possibly screw it up by taking it apart and diagnosing it's issues?

Andy

 

[Streetbu]

There is NO way to do a proper compression test on that engine. It has a decompression lever mounted on the camshaft that bumps the exhaust valve open to release compression and make it easier to pull over with the recoil. Once running, the lever swings out of the way and the valve runs off the camshaft. If it starts fine with a shot of ether, I would b willing to bet it's a fuel issue. The Champion engines are just Chinese clones of Honda's. They are actually good engines. Just buy a new carb. Should only be about $35 and you can bolt it on and go.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Figure out why it has low compression. Are the valves leaking or is the rings?

Vavles closing or does it need a valve job?

You have to diagnose the engine to determine the exact cause. I would do a cylinder leakage test to determine if the problem lies with a burnt valve or a piston/bore issue. That would definetely be the cheapest route to go if you fix it yourself.

CORRECT ! If compression is seriously down, I would suspect it would be having a hard time keeping up with a full load and you will see a measurable increase in fuel consumption.

Until you get a cylinder leak down tester and learn how to use it, throw a carb rebuild kit at it (cheap and not to hard) and replace all fuel/vacuum lines.


Get a smaller (< 3500 watt) inverter generator for the track. IMHO Honda and Yamaha are now overpriced. Check into Champion inverter or possibly even Boliy.

 

[theoldwizard1]

There is NO way to do a proper compression test on that engine. It has a decompression lever mounted on the camshaft that bumps the exhaust valve open to release compression and make it easier to pull over with the recoil. Once running, the lever swings out of the way and the valve runs off the camshaft.

I'm not certain how the decompression works on that specific engine, but Streetbu is correct. You have to disable it to do a compression or leak down test.

Simplest way on OHV engines is just loosen the valve adjuster until they are completely loose. Then run the test.

If it starts fine with a shot of ether, I would be willing to bet it's a fuel issue. The Champion engines are just Chinese clones of Honda's. They are actually good engines. Just buy a new carb. Should only be about $35 and you can bolt it on and go.

Yeah, I forgot how cheap the carbs are ! Replace all fuel and vacuum lines.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Babz go get the EU6500...

Just went through the whole "which genset, what fuels, how big, portable vs. auto" etc. Went with the Honda EU6500.

What are you guys running that you need that kind of power ? 3000 watts (surge) is more than enough with some simple power "management".

If you need 240V for a well pump, you could buy a 240V pseudo-sine wave inverter for just for that for $100-$200 and a marine battery. Or a 2.0-3.0 KVA 120/240 transformer from eBay for around $100.

 

[Streetbu]

Only way to "disable" the decompression valve is to remove the valve cover, and loosen the rocker arm nuts to allow the valve to fully close. Not hard, But with 60psi using the decompression valve, I would bet that your compression is fine and it's a waste of time to check. On the other and it free to check , relatively quick and easy. That engine is the same as a Honda GX340. The expensive Honda generators are VERY nice, but you definitely pay for them!

 

[David Paul]

There is NO way to do a proper compression test on that engine. It has a decompression lever mounted on the camshaft that bumps the exhaust valve open to release compression and make it easier to pull over with the recoil. Once running, the lever swings out of the way and the valve runs off the camshaft. If it starts fine with a shot of ether, I would b willing to bet it's a fuel issue. The Champion engines are just Chinese clones of Honda's.[r/QUOTE]

Learn something new every day. Thanks Street for posting....
David

 

[Farmall 1066]

I'd agree on maybe no good way to check compression, but you MIGHT try removing the rewind starter housing, and wrapping a rope around it and spinning it backwards to check.
Be sure throttle is wide open also when checking. By spinning backwards you present the backside of the lobe profile and sort of bypass the compression release.

Just curious...have you checked the linkage or the choke butterfly to be absolutely sure the choke is closing completely. What happens if you remove the air filter, and hold your hand over the intake when you crank it?

On these fixed jet carbs, the choke has to work perfectly to allow for easy starting.

 

[Thezapper]

I was generatorless last year when we had a 50 year rain storm here in Toronto, the very next day I bought a display model at home depo, ridgid 7000w electric start, etc... Never used it until 4 months later when we had the ice storm on dec 22 2013 which crippled the hydro infrastructure for weeks. So first impressions of that ridgid was ok, it worked but my refrigerator did not like the power, neither did any of my flat screens and it burnt allot of fuel. So I ended up selling that genset and bought a honda eu6500 genset.I got mine used, it had 40 hours on the clock, a new battery, a 50 ft gen set cord,extra plugs,oil,owners and service manual for about 4 grand cdn.

I don't know what could be wrong with your champion generator, but one thing I can say is that once you go this route you'll never use anything else again (Inverter) . It's super quiet and fuel efficient. I couldn't stand that generator SCRRRREAMING !!! Anymore, my neighbours weren't very happy either. Resale value on these generators are good too, so if you ever consider moving on to something else, you will sell it in a heartbeat. Try to find a good used one, kijiji, craigslist etc honda is a solid product, and it's still made in Japan too!

 

[mshell56118]

instead of buying one large generator you may look at two of the smaller inverter gensets that can be paralleled together. They seem so be a little better on fuel and you can also manage them also. That Honda is heavy to lug around and load into and out of a trailer

 

[mshell56118]

also the biggest thing we see on those little engines is valve issues may just try hand lapping them and the thing might come back to life. Do you run it under load on a regular base? are you making sure you are using fuel with no ethanol? if your answer is no to both start

 

[babzog]

I generally use regular gas but am going to try and put in a tank of prem at the last fill before shutting down.

Who has champion carbs for $35? And why would mine be in need of replacement? What wears out on them?

How do I hand-lap valves? Never tried this before.

 

[theoldwizard1]

I generally use regular gas but am going to try and put in a tank of prem at the last fill before shutting down.

Save your money on the premium fuel and but a "good" fuel system cleaner like Techron or Gumout Regane Complete Fuel System Cleaner. Put about 4-8 time the recommended amount in the tank and RUN IT under load for 15-30 minutes.

Who has champion carbs for $35? And why would mine be in need of replacement? What wears out on them?

Nothing really "wears out", but it is frequently easier and only a few $$ more to buy a replacement carb instead of rebuilding it.

Remember that is a Chinese Honda (GX340 ?) clone engine. Shop eBay. (Replacement GX340 carbs start at at $16.)

How do I hand-lap valves? Never tried this before.

This is very "old school".

Disassemble the top end of the engine. Remove the valve springs and valves. Clean off all of the carbon. Clamp the head upside down (combustion chamber straight up ). Place a small amount of valve lapping compound on the area where the edge of the intake or exhaust valve contacts the valve seat. Insert the valve and using a valve lapping tool, spin the valve. Watch this video. (The engine in this video is an "L Head", probably an old B&S. The valves are in the cylinder block. Your engine is likely an OHV.)