Need help deciphering an old conduit bender...

[draggindakota]

I'm getting ready to start running conduit in my shop, and was given a couple of conduit benders for 1/2" & 3/4" EMT. The 1/2" bender is an older Site-Rite 840, just like the one pictured here, but for the life of me I can't figure out how the read the dang thing for offset bends in the air. Everything else I'm good with, but I'm struggling to get consistent bends for offsets. All the other benders I've seen have degree lines, and I even tried marking some out with a protractor and sharpie but something just isn't adding up. Anyone have an tips? The person that gave them to me has no idea either. Google has been no help at all either.

I feel like this should be pretty simple, I mean I got good grades in geometry and trig

 

[alfredeneuman]

I think that particular bender bends 45 degrees with the handle vertical and conduit on the floor.
To get an offset you measure 1.4 times the depth of the offset, mark the conduit, and use the same marks on the bender's head to bend it.
EDIT: Think of it as a right angle triangle and the distance between bends as the hypotenuse.

 

[klassenl]

I will do my best.



If you line up the degree marks with the little point as you sight down it you will get the marked angle (with practice).

 

[Jim greengo]

Get/read jack benfields book.

 

[Norcal]

Get/read jack benfields book.

Benfield wrote the bending bible.

 

[Terry D]

By the word "saddle" there should be a notch or a mark. That is the center of your 45 degree bend for a three bend saddle. You will have 3 marks that you put on the conduit. The center mark is lined up with the notch and bent to a 45 degree, the outside marks are bent the opposite at 22 1/2 degrees. You would use the "arrow" mark for the 22 1/2 degree bends. Now where to mark the pipe and how far apart the marks should be is where the math comes in. There are y-tube videos, but as already said the Benfield conduit manual is the best. Its what taught me, and i still carry one to this day. There are also other marks. The diamond is for back to back bends. And there should be a arrow up towards the front. And like Alfred said, some of the old benders, when your bending on the floor, when the handle is straight up, its a 45 degree bend. All the newer ones, when the handle is straight up, it is a 30 degree bend

This book has gotten pricey over the last few few years, browse around on the internet, you might find it cheaper

Edit: When I read the OP's first post. I somehow thought you were talking about saddles. Now that I reread it, I see your were talking about offsets. Oh well, now you know about saddles. LOL

Amazon.com: Benfield Conduit Bending Manual: 9780872885103: Benfield, Jack: Books

Amazon.com: Benfield Conduit Bending Manual: 9780872885103: Benfield, Jack: Books

www.amazon.com

 

[draggindakota]

I have a PDF of the Benfield book that has helped a lot, along with a couple ther books I've found and of course youtube.

I will do my best.



If you line up the degree marks with the little point as you sight down it you will get the marked angle (with practice).

That works great when bending on the floor. With the head in the air though, I can't figure out how to gauge the angle of the bend. Maybe it has something to do with that other little pin on the handle collar?

 

[Terry D]

When the pipe and the line are parallel to each other. The picture that you posted is close to a 22 1/2 degree bend. What brand is the first bender that you posted? Is there markings on the other side?

You can also use a angle finder. Place a level on one end of the pipe and the angle finder on the other. When the level reads level, the finder will tell you the angle

Johnson Level & Tool Protractor Angle Finder, 4 In, Magnetic 700 | Zoro

Order Johnson Level & Tool Protractor Angle Finder, 4 In, Magnetic, 700 at Zoro.com. Great prices & free shipping on orders over $50 when you sign in or sign up for an account.

www.zoro.com

 

[draggindakota]

The first one is the one I have, an older Greenlee Site-Rite No. 840. The second is a just a clip from the Benfield book for reference. The only marks on the other side are the makers marks, and the arrow:

 

[Terry D]

I never used a bender with the angle markings like the one that you show with the Greenlee. You almost have to go by feel with that one. It looks like when bending on the floor, when the handle is straight up, that will be a 30 degree bend. So you have to go a little past that for a 45. Use the angle finder, use a scrape piece of conduit, do some test bends and maybe put your own marks on the bender

 

[Knight511]

I found that using a magnetic angle finder (old school, non- digital) helped me more than the markings. I would get one of these anfgle finders, some 1/2 emt, and then use the angle finder to bend to 15/30/45 degrees to see how those marks line up with the floor. I feel like the mark should be perpendicular to the floor when the angle has been reached, but I would want to verify that idea.

 

[sparky 1971]

Those type of benders are a royal pita, especially when using one after you get used to the Benfield type. If I were in your shoes, I would just throw that one in the nearest dumpster. Home Depot has a cheap Southwire brand 1/2" aluminum head bender and handle for $32.00. I wouldn't have a problem with using one of those, especially if it's only for one job.

 

[alfredeneuman]

I take back what I said about the bender being 45 degrees with the handle vertical.
It's 30. (I've used one where it was 45).
To measure for a 30 make the marks 2X the amount of offset wanted.

 

[haveissues]

I have an identical one and I don't think you are missing anything-the only way to use it is to sight across the nubs. You could probably measure some angles onto it and cut some lines in with an cutoff wheel if you really felt like it.

 

[klassenl]

Those type of benders are a royal pita, especially when using one after you get used to the Benfield type. If I were in your shoes, I would just throw that one in the nearest dumpster. Home Depot has a cheap Southwire brand 1/2" aluminum head bender and handle for $32.00. I wouldn't have a problem with using one of those, especially if it's only for one job.

Thet are not a royal pita. You just have to learn how to use it. No matter who you are there is a lot of "feel" when you are bending pipe.

 

[Terry D]

Thet are not a royal pita. You just have to learn how to use it. No matter who you are there is a lot of "feel" when you are bending pipe.

That's fine when you are bending the pipe on the floor where you can sight down a vertical line to line up the nub and the degree. It pretty much is using the handle as a reference. But the OP is talking about using the bender inverted. Those markings would be useless for that, since you are pushing down on the rear or the pipe to bend it. The front part of the shoe is just holding it. But I agree, its a lot about feel. Its like any other tool. You have to know your tool. Even on the other style, which is way more common, that the OP posted out of the Benfield manual where you have the degree lines on the back of the shoe. They take getting used to, some you have to stop a little short from the line.

 

[draggindakota]

I appreciate all the input guys.

I have an identical one and I don't think you are missing anything-the only way to use it is to sight across the nubs. You could probably measure some angles onto it and cut some lines in with an cutoff wheel if you really felt like it.

I tried doing that with a sharpie and protractor but couldn't get anything that seemed right. That may have been the COVID though, since I got a positive test the next morning .

I might give it another go this weekend when I'm out of quarantine, but really I'm probably going to just politely give these back and go buy one, as it is seeming to be more of a headache than I want to to deal with.

 

[sparky 1971]

Thet are not a royal pita. You just have to learn how to use it. No matter who you are there is a lot of "feel" when you are bending pipe.

They are a pain in the *** when trying to bend consistent offsets in the air, which is what the OP was asking about. And.. I know how to use one, I have a 3/4 version of that bender. I even have the newer style Greenlee Site Rites in 1/2, 3/4, and 1". They have the Benfield marks for bending in the air as well as the site pins. I just don't like them so they sit in a corner of the shop. I like my Iron Ideals that I've had since 1994.

 

[Knight511]

They are a pain in the *** when trying to bend consistent offsets in the air, which is what the OP was asking about. And.. I know how to use one, I have a 3/4 version of that bender. I even have the newer style Greenlee Site Rites in 1/2, 3/4, and 1". They have the Benfield marks for bending in the air as well as the site pins. I just don't like them so they sit in a corner of the shop. I like my Iron Ideals that I've had since 1994.

My experience is extremely limited, but I bought an iron Ideal for my shop build; I do NOT regret that at all. It is a nice bender and the markings are friendly enough even for a newb like me.

 

[fitter30]

This might help. Have looked at any utube videos.

https://www.google.com/url?q=https://franklinempire.com/media/document/i/d/idw_greenlee_843a_manual.pdf&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwjb3Jzd1p71AhXEjokEHVU8DTkQFnoECAUQAg&usg=AOvVaw0eNZIG47IGEkzOTyW3MXEq

 

[alfredeneuman]

When bending "in the air" it's a natural tendency to increase the leverage by holding the conduit out further from the bender. Holding it too close to the bender doesn't work at all.
It should be held as close to the head as possible to avoid the conduit being bowed.

 

[Terry D]

This might help. Have looked at any utube videos.

https://www.google.com/url?q=https://franklinempire.com/media/document/i/d/idw_greenlee_843a_manual.pdf&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwjb3Jzd1p71AhXEjokEHVU8DTkQFnoECAUQAg&usg=AOvVaw0eNZIG47IGEkzOTyW3MXEq

The OP's bender does not have the angle marks on the rear of the shoe for in the air bending for some reason

 

[sparky 1971]

I appreciate all the input guys.


I tried doing that with a sharpie and protractor but couldn't get anything that seemed right. That may have been the COVID though, since I got a positive test the next morning .

I might give it another go this weekend when I'm out of quarantine, but really I'm probably going to just politely give these back and go buy one, as it is seeming to be more of a headache than I want to to deal with.

Is the 3/4" bender the same style? If it's the type with degree lines for bending in the air, there is no sense in giving it back and buying another. I do think that at least the 1/2 should be either tossed or made into a piece of wall art if not given back. All of this dicking around with suggestions for how to use it is pointless when you already know how to use the modern style and can get one for $32 if you're close to a Home Depot. Lowes is back to carrying Ideal, they have the aluminum 1/2 with handle for about $40, the iron head is quite a bit more.

 

[nadogail]

Jack Benfeld invented the EMT bender and wrote the Bible on how to use it.

 

[draggindakota]

Is the 3/4" bender the same style? If it's the type with degree lines for bending in the air, there is no sense in giving it back and buying another. I do think that at least the 1/2 should be either tossed or made into a piece of wall art if not given back. All of this dicking around with suggestions for how to use it is pointless when you already know how to use the modern style and can get one for $32 if you're close to a Home Depot. Lowes is back to carrying Ideal, they have the aluminum 1/2 with handle for about $40, the iron head is quite a bit more.

The 3/4 bender is a Rigid brand, and is even worse if that's possible. There are no degree marks of any kind, anywhere on the head, just the arrow and saddle marks. I only have one run of 3/4 to do, so hopefully I can just wing it.

Speaking of winging it...I gave the other bender another go and have been able to get acceptable results by giving up on bending in the air completely. I saw a video where a guy would start in the air just to get the clearance he needed, then put the shoe back on the ground to finish the bend, and that's been mostly working for me.

 

[rburke65]

As with most things, it all looks easy until YOU do it and that is hen you discover it’s an ART.

 

[Chuckster in NJ]

Conduit bending 101:
Buy the Jack Benfeld book and buy a 100’ bundle of 1/2” EMT then cut it in half. Start practicing your bending skills (offsets, saddles, dog legs, etc) on 5’ pieces and I can promise you that you will be very good by the time the bundle is used up.…… This is a skill that takes "hands on" practice and the more you do the better you will get.
I can bend any size conduit and make it look very easy with no waste but I have over 50 years experience.

 

[alfredeneuman]

buy a 100’ bundle of 1/2” EMT then cut it in half.

Why not make the bend, and cut it off when you're finished?
You'd able to get more bends per 10' length

 

[Chuckster in NJ]

Why not make the bend, and cut it off when you're finished?
You'd able to get more bends per 10' length

You can do that but leverage is "your friend" and it is easier for a "rookie" learning with a longer 5’ length…….. You can do one end then flip it over and do the other end PLUS you want to make sure you keep your fingers out of the shoe So this is why I suggested the 5’ length.

TRY THIS: Bend a saddle and then a 90* with a dog leg and make sure the saddle fits without cutting and using a coupling OR a saddle in the middle and offsets on each end..…. That is why you want to use the 5’ length.
90* bends are easy to do and with the 5’ length you can do dog legs, saddles, off sets and make sure they are laying flat, with short lengths you can’t do that.
Once you are done with your "bending lesson" cut off the straight pieces and save them for some miscellaneous projects.

 

[hiflyr]

How to Use an EMT, or thin-wall, conduit bender

This instructional video will walk you, step by step, through the different parts of a 1/2" EMT, or thin-wall, conduit bender. You'll learn about the arrow,...

home-tools.wonderhowto.com

 

[jrevans]

As with most things, it all looks easy until YOU do it and that is hen you discover it’s an ART.

Many years ago, watched an old guy bending 3/4" conduit, standing on the ground, and handing it up to the guy on the scaffold. Skinny guy, arms like Popeye, bender choked up in one hand, conduit in the other, bending nearly without looking. All the while, smoking a cigar and giving the guy on the scaffold hell. He would hand it up and it would fit perfectly.

I tried, using the instructions on the bender, and a tape measure. Quickly learned that I was not gifted in the art of bending conduit.

 

[Norcal]

Instead of a Sharpie, use a pencil to mark the conduit, the pencil marks will rub off, rather then leaving ugly black marks on the conduit.

 

[nadogail]

Conduit bending is an art, one gets better with guided practice. Expect your first few bends to be disappointing. As you progress your pile of misbent cutoffs will become smaller.

 

[dscheidt]

Conduit bending is an art, one gets better with guided practice. Expect your first few bends to be disappointing. As you progress your pile of misbent cutoffs will become smaller.

You will also find yourself cringing at some of the stuff that's installed in commercial spaces, especially outside of big cities. dog leg offsets, stuff that's clearly sprung to get the conduit into a box, cut and coupled pieces, and mineralac straps where a box offset would be some much cleaner.

 

[The Cobbler]

Instead of a Sharpie, use a pencil to mark the conduit, the pencil marks will rub off, rather then leaving ugly black marks on the conduit.

sharpie easily comes off with acetone or lacquer thinner

 

[nadogail]

Pencil marks are easily erased with chemistry that is odor less, like skin oil.

sharpie easily comes off with acetone or lacquer thinner

 

[Norcal]

sharpie easily comes off with acetone or lacquer thinner

Have you priced those solvents? I see no reason to do another step, when a simple rubbing off the marks be done before someone picks up a rag & moistens it with the desired solvent.

 

[alfredeneuman]

sharpie easily comes off with acetone or lacquer thinner

Strong alcohol works too
(I need a sharpie because with my feeble eyes it's hard to find pencil marks)