Need Help Improving Compressor

[danny_barkley]

I have a California Air Tools compressor.


I want to run a 25' 1/2" x 3/8 MNPT air hose on it for a 1/2" impact air line

I'll attach photos of the compressor and the manifold that the compressor uses.


These are the areas I am trying to address:

1) The tiny black flexible line coming from the compressor cutoff switch to the manifold

2) The manifold itself is kinda small and the couplers going into it are 1/4"

3) At the end of the 1/2" air hose will be a 3/8" coupler, how to I bring that down to the 1/4" on the tool.

I would like to use as many Milton V type pieces as possible.

 

[The Cobbler]

what's the cfm rating for that compressor, it looks like a small compressor to be expecting much efficiency running an impact gun .( not to railroad your questions, just saying...

 

[danny_barkley]

what's the cfm rating for that compressor, it looks like a small compressor to be expecting much efficiency running an impact gun .( not to railroad your questions, just saying...

It's small, I'm just trying to get it where I can use it with as little hose resistance as possible.

Air Delivery SCFM @ 90PSI 5.3

10 Gallons

Here's the Impact I have:

https://store.snapon.com/1-2-Drive-Super-Duty-1-2-Drive-Heavy-Duty-Air-Impact-Wrench-P646291.aspx

 

[grumpychevy]

What size ****** is welded to the tank going to the pressure switch? Looks like it's 3/8". If you want maximum airflow, you need to come out of the pressure switch with the same size as what's going into it. Get rid of that whole mainfold and pipe in a 3/8" regulator (assuming that's the ****** size coming out of the compressor). Come out of the regulator with a bell reducer from 3/8" up to 1/2". Run your 1/2" hose then use a 1/2" to 1/4" bushing at the end to your hose to connect your 1/4" quick disconnect.
If your hose already has a 3/8" bushing on the end, then just substitute a 3/8" to 1/4" bushing instead of the 1/2" to 1/4" bushing

 

[Bondo]

1) The tiny black flexible line coming from the compressor cutoff switch to the manifold

2) The manifold itself is kinda small and the couplers going into it are 1/4"

3) At the end of the 1/2" air hose will be a 3/8" coupler, how to I bring that down to the 1/4" on the tool.

I would like to use as many Milton V type pieces as possible.

Ayuh,.... Forgetabout #s 1, 'n 2,... ain't gonna do ya any good,....

As for #3, the make the quick connector ends in 3/8" pipe thread, insteada the usual 1/4" pipe,....

 

[danny_barkley]

What size ****** is welded to the tank going to the pressure switch? Looks like it's 3/8". If you want maximum airflow, you need to come out of the pressure switch with the same size as what's going into it. Get rid of that whole mainfold and pipe in a 3/8" regulator (assuming that's the ****** size coming out of the compressor). Come out of the regulator with a bell reducer from 3/8" up to 1/2". Run your 1/2" hose then use a 1/2" to 1/4" bushing at the end to your hose to connect your 1/4" quick disconnect.
If your hose already has a 3/8" bushing on the end, then just substitute a 3/8" to 1/4" bushing instead of the 1/2" to 1/4" bushing

I believe that is a 1/4" pipe ****** coming out of the tank.

 

[grumpychevy]

Measure that again. I don't mean to sound like a *****, but most air tools require the use of a minimum hose size of 3/8", so if that is only a 1/4" ****** then that would mean the compressor company is using the wrong size tank outlet to start with. If that's the case you might as well reserve that compressor to inflation needs and air nailer use and start looking for a different compressor.

 

[The Cobbler]

most smallish compressors are plumbed with 1/4 pipe. most 3/8 hoses have 1/4 pipe fittings on them. the company is not using the wrong sized pipe ont he compressor.
but, I do agree that given the size/cfm of that compressor, I wouldn't spend a lot of time or money on upgrading any fittings etc to run an impact. the tank size & cfm are the major deficiency's , well ahead of the plumbing from the tank to the tool.

 

[danny_barkley]

Measure that again. I don't mean to sound like a *****, but most air tools require the use of a minimum hose size of 3/8", so if that is only a 1/4" ****** then that would mean the compressor company is using the wrong size tank outlet to start with. If that's the case you might as well reserve that compressor to inflation needs and air nailer use and start looking for a different compressor.

I had a 26 Gallon Craftsman that had the same size ****** on it.

Most 3/8" hose had 1/4" ends.

 

[danny_barkley]

most smallish compressors are plumbed with 1/4 pipe. most 3/8 hoses have 1/4 pipe fittings on them. the company is not using the wrong sized pipe ont he compressor.
but, I do agree that given the size/cfm of that compressor, I wouldn't spend a lot of time or money on upgrading any fittings etc to run an impact. the tank size & cfm are the major deficiency's , well ahead of the plumbing from the tank to the tool.

The CFM of the compressor matches the requirements of the tool, but just...

So I'm trying to decrease resistance losses in the hose as much as I can by running 1/2"

 

[The Cobbler]

The CFM of the compressor matches the requirements of the tool, but just...

So I'm trying to decrease resistance losses in the hose as much as I can by running 1/2"

OK, so what I would do is T off before the pressure switch etc, with a ****** and a high flow coupler. get a 3/8 or 1/2 regulator with a male air plug and your hose on that so you can plug it in whenever you want to run the impact . basically leave the rest of the plumbing as is for use when not using the impact.
but, have you tried running the impact on 1/2" hose with the current set up? it might not run to badly. you might try increasing the pressure to the tool a bit .

 

[taumac]

Pipe coming out of the tank is 1/4 NPT. Its the same as my 30gal.

OP, I have to agree with post above. 1 and 2 not going to happen. You end up spending a lot of money on fittings and doubt it will improve any or if does much at all in the end. Best thing you can do is change out the quick connect from the manifold and fittings on the hose to good pieces like Milton's or other high flow pieces. Another thing you can do is set your reg to proper psi for your impact. Hook up your gun, pull trigger, and set your reg to 90 psi while holding trigger down. Is will ensure your getting maximum use out of your gun.

 

[danny_barkley]

OK, so what I would do is T off before the pressure switch etc, with a ****** and a high flow coupler. get a 3/8 or 1/2 regulator with a male air plug and your hose on that so you can plug it in whenever you want to run the impact . basically leave the rest of the plumbing as is for use when not using the impact.
but, have you tried running the impact on 1/2" hose with the current set up? it might not run to badly. you might try increasing the pressure to the tool a bit .

I'm getting ready to do a crankshaft pulley on a Toyota Land Cruiser for a timing belt. Last time I did it, was the first replacement, and I had a lot of fun trying to get it off. Same impact, which I bought for that rodeo. It never worked to get it off. But I did not have the hoses and fittings optimized and it was a 26 Gallon Crapsman compressor. It was also Factory tight.

So I'm trying to line up me Duckies this time. All pointing in the same direction and what not.

I'll have to contemplate how to get into that pipe ****** before the switch. It's a little tight in there.

 

[The Cobbler]

actually on closer look, t in at the pressure switch where the poly hose goes up to the current manifold.

 

[sberry]

Instead of using as many Milton fittings as possible use as few as you can. 1/4 pipe is really closer to 3/8 id than 1/4. With the little comp a 1/2 hose will probably help some, the fussing over fittings only a pinch, not so much. They are so short and don't add much resistance.

 

[danny_barkley]

I just remembered something from my research on pressure switches recently.

They have multiple ports usually.

Here's the one on my compressor:

Does anyone know if all these ports go through the switch or are some a bypass?

These are 1/4" it looks like. But I don't think they are pipe thread necessarily.

 

[The Cobbler]

it is 1/4 pipe thread, the same port as the others. it's just capped off as it's not being used. might be loctited in so it could be tough getting out

 

[sberry]

Take one of those plugs out and put in a coupler or screw the hose in there, by pass all the reg and manifold.

 

[taumac]

I just remembered something from my research on pressure switches recently.



They have multiple ports usually.



Here's the one on my compressor:

Does anyone know if all these ports go through the switch or are some a bypass?



These are 1/4" it looks like. But I don't think they are pipe thread necessarily.

Its a generic pressure switch and those are just unused ports. Consider it like a 4 way T. The ports of pressure switch are for expansion like running filters and regulators then a coupler to hose. Your compressor has a manifold set up in different location. The bottom of that switch is feeding full tank pressure into your manifold with no obstruction. You could run a coupler in one of those ports and run directly off whatever PSI in the tank. You could damage your seals on gun doing such.

 

[danny_barkley]

Take one of those plugs out and put in a coupler or screw the hose in there, by pass all the reg and manifold.

I can get a 1/4" to 3/8" pipe ****** and put a Milton 3/8" coupler on there and be good to go I think.

I would run the tool at 125 or so I guess that won't hurt it for a little bit at a time considering it wouldn't be that often.

 

[sberry]

It needs all that pressure. It's the whole incentive for improving it in the first place. It won't hurt the gun.

 

[PugetDude]

That's a really nice little compressor- the operative word being little. It wasn't designed with sufficient scfm to run an impact wrench, sander, etc.

Play around with hoses and fittings all you want, but don't expect more than negligible improvement in performance. CAT has been at this a lot longer than you, and are probably already getting as much air out of it as reasonably possible. Small compressors are a competitive, cutthroat market.

Add an auxiliary air tank if you just occasionally need more volume.
Buy a bigger compressor designed to run the tools you plan to use if you need more air on a regular basis.

Sorry.

 

[danny_barkley]

That's a really nice little compressor- the operative word being little. It wasn't designed with sufficient scfm to run an impact wrench, sander, etc.

Play around with hoses and fittings all you want, but don't expect more than negligible improvement in performance. CAT has been at this a lot longer than you, and are probably already getting as much air out of it as reasonably possible. Small compressors are a competitive, cutthroat market.

Add an auxiliary air tank if you just occasionally need more volume.
Buy a bigger compressor designed to run the tools you plan to use if you need more air on a regular basis.

Sorry.

There's compressor output and resistance losses.

I'm trying to cut my resistance losses by running the 1/2" hose.

 

[danny_barkley]

So I think I have the stuff I need to order figured out except for the last end piece.

My #3 question in the OP.

I have the Snap On MG725 with a Milton 1/4" ****** and now a 3/8" Quick connector on my Hose end.

What's the most effiicient way to use these two end pieces?

I'm using all Milton V connectors except for the 1/4 NPT to 3/8" reducer going into the air switch.

It's not clear to me whether the 1/4" Milton will plug into the 3/8 quick connect.

 

[PugetDude]

There's compressor output and resistance losses.

I'm trying to cut my resistance losses by running the 1/2" hose.

I understand that. Your tank outlet and manifold fittings are both smaller than your new 1/2" hose, so reducing your resistance losses just means you're going to run out of air sooner...on a small compressor like this, the compressor output is the limiting factor, not the hose size. Don't you think CAT would put 1/2" fittings on if it would allow them to advertise a higher scfm rating?

 

[crewchief888]

I would run the tool at 125 or so I guess that won't hurt it for a little bit at a time considering it wouldn't be that often.

ive always run my impacts, sanders and grinders at full pressure, no matter what it was, could be anywhere from 150psi to 220psi. never used anything but a 3/8" hose.

 

[theoldwizard1]

I bought a California Air Tools compressor at a VERY good price because it got banged around in shipping so I had to replace a couple of items.

First, BE CAREFUL REMOVING ANY AIR LINE FITTINGS ! They use a sealant that hardens like epoxy and you can easily break something when you try to loosen it ! A small amount of heat from a propane torch will loosen them right up.

I also did not like those tiny plastic lines. I added a couple of elbows to make the corners less severe and then replaced them with 3/8" (1/4" fittings) stainless braided plumbing hoses (rated for 150 psi).

Not much you can do about the manifold.

 

[sberry]

Your tank outlet and manifold fittings are both smaller than your new 1/2" hose, so reducing your resistance losses just means you're going to run out of air sooner...on a small compressor like this, the compressor output is the limiting factor, not the hose size. Don't you think CAT would put 1/2" fittings on if it would allow them to advertise a higher scfm rating?

The hose size IS limiting for a tool like an impact. This is the reason a real mechanics compressor is 2 stage, to be able to turn it up for line loss. 3 hp comps used to be real common for mechanics shops, they were not sandblasting or doing body work where the continuous demands really require 5 hp, they were meant for running impacts. Larger hose doesn't change the pump rating but the delivery pressure due to less line loss.

 

[danny_barkley]

I bought a California Air Tools compressor at a VERY good price because it got banged around in shipping so I had to replace a couple of items.

First, BE CAREFUL REMOVING ANY AIR LINE FITTINGS ! They use a sealant that hardens like epoxy and you can easily break something when you try to loosen it ! A small amount of heat from a propane torch will loosen them right up.

I also did not like those tiny plastic lines. I added a couple of elbows to make the corners less severe and then replaced them with 3/8" (1/4" fittings) stainless braided plumbing hoses (rated for 150 psi).

Not much you can do about the manifold.

Mr. Wizard,

Do you have any pictures of the work you did here?

 

[danny_barkley]

Posted a Video with my results of my mods.

I got what I was trying to accomplish.

You do have to use some heat to loosen up the "dope" they use on everything

I'd like to find out what they use cause it's pretty neat how it works

Something I did not show in the Video, but if you plug in the 1/2" air line into the Factory Quick connect, the 1/2" line performs just as bad as the 3/8" line "almost".

The 3/8" line gets a little better bypassing the manifold and regulator but not as good as the 1/2" line performs.

Bypassing the Factory Manifold and the Factory regulator made a big difference, maybe more than the air hose and fittings.

Basically I just wanted to make sure I got 90 PSI to the tool to bang a bit.