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Need help picking out a set of Norseman bits, quick.

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Invisible Hand

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Need help picking out a set of Norseman bits.

I'm needing to order a set of drill bits quickly so I can have them by the weekend. After reading reviews I'm sold on Norseman bits. However, I'm completely lost in their 150+ page PDF catalog and could use some help.

I'm seeing types 190-AG, 170-AG, 128-AG on their site. Then there's the various lengths, coatings, and shank types.

Key notes:
-This set will be used for exclusively drilling metal commonly found on cars and guns. I've been known to bust the heads off a few bolts....:lol:
-I'd prefer something that can be used in a hand drill and in the future on a drill press (when I get one).

I think a jobber length, regular shank set is what I need. But please let me know if you'd recommend differently. Below is the set I'm looking at.

https://www.emisupply.com/catalog/n...lack-gold-drill-29pc-p-2202.html#.Vm-PHrddGHs

Thanks!
 
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md21722

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Norseman SPM-29 mechanic length in metal box is what I have.

I've been told that the fancy coatings don't do much more than separate you from your money. Cobalt is brittle and may be more likely to break in automotive applications where you're using a hand drill rather than a press. The Norseman's will work fine in either. Drill speed and cutting oil is pretty important for the longevity of drill bits.
 
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Invisible Hand

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I was thinking the Jobber length would be more "universal" and useful in more applications. However, I can see the benefit of getting the mechanics length to prevent breaking.

Which would be the better first set? Would the jobber length be better suited for a drill press?

Thanks again,

-Jared
 
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firworks

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So, if the issue is you need them quickly, and you think you can get the bits you posted quickly just order them. I'm sure that's gonna be a good set.
 
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Invisible Hand

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I ended up getting the 29 piece mechanic length set for $86 shipped on Ebay. I'm much less likely to break them using a drill. I'll pick up their 115 jobber length someday when I get a drill press.

Thanks for the input guys.
 
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neonlazer

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Invisible Hand said:
I ended up getting the 29 piece mechanic length set for $86 shipped on Ebay. I'm much less likely to break them using a drill. I'll pick up their 115 jobber length someday when I get a drill press.

Thanks for the input guys.
Click to expand...

:thumbup: Same box I have. Haven't broken one yet! Even after my big friend drilled through a vehicle frame. I was impressed!
 
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zkling

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Just for future reference, especially for machine drilling, try to stay away from the 3 flat bits. For hand drill operation where runout is not critical they are nice to prevent slipping, but on a machine they can cause issues. The problem won't be nearly as bad with those as the cheaper bits though.
 
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Mohawk Dave

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ok, I looked at the links. Am I retarded? concerning what the lengths are of mechanic vs jobber vs ???

Is there a break down chart somewhere? I shall google more.
 
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Mohawk Dave

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zkling said:
Just for future reference, especially for machine drilling, try to stay away from the 3 flat bits. For hand drill operation where runout is not critical they are nice to prevent slipping, but on a machine they can cause issues. The problem won't be nearly as bad with those as the cheaper bits though.
Click to expand...

z, can you explain. I always "assumed" 3 flat couldn't hurt.

I'll take a WAG. 3 flats on 3 jaw chuck is ok, but on collet you can get play???
 
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md21722

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Mechanic bits are shorter than jobber bits. Helps in tight spaces and often mechanics are pushing at angles, etc and the shortest bit possible works better. As to run out on a machine, machinists are often working with .005" tolerances and are known to cut a smaller hole and then ream it out to true size.
 
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zkling

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Mohawk Dave said:
z, can you explain. I always "assumed" 3 flat couldn't hurt.

I'll take a WAG. 3 flats on 3 jaw chuck is ok, but on collet you can get play???
Click to expand...

Technically you really don't want to grip drill bits in a collet, especially outside of the specific collets size. The problem with the 3 flat bits, especially the cheaper ones is manfacturing tolerances, you are pretty much locked in to always using those 3 flats as the clamping surface. Additionally if one flat ever wears slightly more than the others, your bit will be a bit off and the chuck will not properly tighten. The really bad ones are the cheaper sets that use a hex on the back end. Again OK for hand drilling and non critical work, but just something to keep in mind and something I tend to avoid. Split point is about as fancy as I go on drill bits. They can keep all that pilot point BS.

Drill bits by nature are not exactly a precision cutting tool. Both in design, construction and use.

As for length, as md brought up, jobber are the standard old dill bit, then there is screw machine length which are shorter and very ridgid. I think the mechanics length are somewhat new (~20 years or so?) and are a middle ground between jobber and screw machine. Tigher clearance and higher ridgidity than jobber without giving up too much lengh as with the screw machine. Then there is a whole slew of special aircraft bits......JMHO
 
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uart

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Invisible Hand said:
Which would be the better first set? Would the jobber length be better suited for a drill press?
Click to expand...
To be honest I prefer the shorter length screw machine (we usually call them "stub" here) bits on a drill press. Particularly if you've only got a small benchtop model like me, by the time I chuck up some of my longer bits there's not much clearance left for the job. Plus the short length and high rigidity means less flex and so easier to start holes accurately.

But stub (screw machine) size isn't going to give you enough length for access in a lot of situations, particularly "general maintenance and repair" type work with a hand drill. So not the best option if you're only getting the one set, and why jobber is the most popular length.

Yeah the "mechanics" length is a bit of a compromise between the two, and something I hadn't come across until recently. Just for comparison, here are the lengths (overall shown first and then flute length in brackets) for 1/4" and 1/2" bits in the various types. This is straight from the Norseman catalog.

Code: 
         1/4"            1/2"
Jobb     4.0 (2.75 )     6.0 (4.5 )
Mech     3.5 (2.0)       5.0 (3.375)
Stub     2.5 (1.375)     3.75 (2.25)
 
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Spdfreak91

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HAH, no but seriously they're the cats meow for the few holes i've had to drill with them,
 
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woody 73

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Not to sound like a broken record but pick up a good quality set (your choice) and use them...Then either buy one of those drill Doctor models or better yet buy a used bench grinder off CL and learn how to sharpen your own drill bits.

Then every garage sale start by buying up used drill bits do not worry if they are broken into two parts you can make a new drill bit, the more you practice the better you will get.

The only other thing that you will need is a drill point gage or any measuring device that gives you a 59 degree angle so you can get the 118 angle every time. Something like this tool:
http://www.zoro.com/starrett-drill-...m_source=Bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=PLA

PS: The Norseman is a very good drill bit and any set you buy from the Epstein co will be of top quality.:thumbup::thumbup:

If buying used bits stay away from any with broken or chipped flutes.

http://www.mfg.mtu.edu/marc/primers/drilling/nomen.html
 
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jeffmoss26

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Looks like CTD is Norseman
"™ Trademarks of Consolidated Toledo Drill & Tool © Copyright 2006 - 2015 Norseman Drill &Tool • St. Paul, Minnesota "
 
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neonlazer

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jeffmoss26 said:
Looks like CTD is Norseman
"™ Trademarks of Consolidated Toledo Drill & Tool © Copyright 2006 - 2015 Norseman Drill &Tool • St. Paul, Minnesota "
Click to expand...

Can't leave out Viking too! The question is, which is the original company? :spit: I been wondering why they branched out, assuming to go into different markets.

In conclusion

Consolidated Toledo Drill, Norseman, and Viking are the same.
 
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Invisible Hand

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I got these today. The company I ordered them from forgot to ship them... They did a partial refund so I ended up getting them for $70.

I have an issue though... It seems like they're too aggressive (my wrist is killing me lol).

The project I needed them for was enlarging some 3/8" holes in brake backing plates. I'm not sure what kind of steel it is but it was 1/3" thick. I worked my way up to 27/64" starting with 24/64" (the next size from 3/8). Even with the smallest size the bit would suddenly bite HARD and twist the hell out of my drill and wrist. I used plenty of oil and tried various techniques but the result was the same on all 8 holes. I also noticed the metal shards were quite large, which also leads me to believe these bits are extremely aggressive. I got the holes enlarged but it took an hour slowly drilling, getting my wrist twisted, backing out of the hole, and repeating. hahaha

Is there a better set out there for general mechanic work? I'll need to enlarge holes without breaking my wrist. All of the 29 piece Norseman sets have the same tips from what I can tell, and would yield similar results. Any input on what is causing these bits to be so aggressive, and what to look for in a different set?

Specs of my set:
Norseman 29pc Hi-Molybdenum Mechanics Length Drill Index 3-Flats On Shank
Item Type: Mechanics Length Drill Set
Material: Hi-Molybdenum Tool Steel
Size Range (In) : 1/16"-1/2" by 64ths
Drill Point: 135 Degree
Point Style: Split Point
Applications: For Use On Alloy, Stainless and Tool Steels

Thanks again for all of your help.
 
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zkling

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Enlarging holes with twist drill bits can be a sketchy operation as the intended bearing surface (chisel/web end) is no longer in contact, instead you are making contact at some mid point on the cutting edge/flutes. The further out you are on the end of the cutting edge (IE starting hole diameter closer to final hole diameter) the worse the problem is going to be and a jig bushing or similar rigid guide should be used.
 
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Invisible Hand

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zkling said:
Enlarging holes with twist drill bits can be a sketchy operation as the intended bearing surface (chisel/web end) is no longer in contact, instead you are making contact at some mid point on the cutting edge/flutes. The further out you are on the end of the cutting edge (IE starting hole diameter closer to final hole diameter) the worse the problem is going to be and a jig bushing or similar rigid guide should be used.
Click to expand...

You're right. I'm going to find some better step bits for my collection. I need some that have deeper steps. That's the only reason why I tried to use a drill bit... and I wanted an excuse to order a Norseman set. :)
 
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Invisible Hand

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machine_punk said:
The website given earlier has something built for EXACTLY what you are trying to do...expand already-drilled holes...
http://www.ctddrill.com/Car-Hex-Reamers.php
Click to expand...

Those look great. I just wish they had more than 4 sizes, and did't include pilot hole bits. I'll probably pick up a set if I can't find longer step bits. Thanks for the link. Norseman's giant PDF catalog is a ***** to navigate.
 
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Invisible Hand

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Good to know they're the same.

I picked up the top of the line drill doctor today for free... My brother used to be a lock smith and apparently has been keeping it in my dad's attic. LOL!
 
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Invisible Hand

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Sorry to bring back a year old thread. I love these bits, but I had a quick question. I have the Magnum Super Premium with a gold coating (not TiN). The coating on one of my bits wore off after drilling ~20 holes in Jeep fender. I expect the coating to wear, but was curious if this is normal, or if it indicates I need to adjust how I'm drilling (speed, pressure, amount of cutting fluid).

Thanks!
 
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