To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

Need help picking the right mig welder

gemnewt

Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2009
Messages
21
Location
Yucca Valley, Ca.
I could use some help picking the right mig welder. I would like not to go over $700, I would like to plug in to my 220v dryer plug. I need a welder for replacing the 18 gauge floor pans and installing a MII front suspension and so on. I doubt if I will use it for anything else other than for automotive purposes, or go over 5/16" plate material. My avatar is the vehicle i'm speaking of. I'm ready to purchase. Thanks in advance.
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

zkling

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 23, 2007
Messages
16,939
You might be able to find a good sale on a hobart 210, otherwise you will be in the hobart 190 range.
 

zkling

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 23, 2007
Messages
16,939
Nope. I've used the 210 as well as the precedessor to the 190 (187). My big mig is a miller, small is a lincoln. If i was to do it again I would probably go with a miller mm211.
 

Lx460

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 9, 2014
Messages
1,306
Location
Central Florida, USA
The answer is Miller 211. It's always Miller 211. Wait for zoro to have a sale or just save up the difference.

If you have the space you can find an older MM250. I love mine. I'd be careful with the 251 however. The electronics can be troublesome. The 252 is likely not in your budget but it's awesome.
 

TauntDevil

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 19, 2014
Messages
194
Location
Mesa, AZ
Lincoln 180 on the budget side.
At the shop, we have Lincoln 140, 180 and a millermatic 211. All of them work great and smooth. I agree about the highest amperage, the only thing however is to make sure that you are able to adjust it. Higher the amperage, the more you want to be able to adjust downward as you obviously don't want to weld 18gauge material at 180amps xD
Just remember that once you have the welder, you will also need to buy a regulator and gas bottle. If you know you will be working a lot in the garage with metal, whether welding or not, just go with the bigger bottle. Here in AZ, the bottle is $50 more than the smaller bottle but its only a $10 difference when filling it up. Also the little bottles go quick.

Best of luck!
 

DonPowers

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 7, 2014
Messages
4,398
Location
On The Hair At The End Of The Dog's Tail
I also use a Miller 211, Just watch the sales adds.

I was initially going to go for a smaller machine, then some professional welder friends educated me on duty cycle. Bottom line, the higher the duty cycle the longer you can weld. The 211 is 40% when operating at 240 volts, their model 200 is 20% at 240 volts.

As mentioned above, you'll want the gas. I used flux core for a few years then went with gas (80 cu ft bottle), much cleaner welds.

http://www.millerwelds.com/products/mig/onephase.php

http://www.hobartwelders.com/products/wirefeed/

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-u...963-1&category=Equipment_MIGFlux-CoredWelders
 
Last edited:

BD1

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 18, 2007
Messages
4,602
Location
north side
Welders supply, a local supplier by me has a closeout on the 180 MILLER with free shipping. GREAT DEAL ! $ 649.00
http://www.weldersupply.com/P/1081/Millermatic180AutoSet907

Product Number: 907312Product SKU: 907312DIMENSIONS
Height: 15.30 Inches
Width: 10.50 Inches
Length: 17.10 Inches
Weight: 72 Lb(s) 0 Oz
$649.00
Millermatic 180 AutoSet #907312

**CLOSE-OUT SALE***

Light Industrial Applications:

Light Fabrication
Maintenance and Repair
Auto Body
Farm/Home
Processes:

Mig (GMAW)
Flux Cord (FCAW)
Input Power: 230V, 21.7A, 60Hz, Single-Phase

Rated Output: 135A at 22.5VDC, 30% Duty Cycle

Max. Open-Circuit Voltage: 31

Auto-Set TM: The right settings automatically.

Set the wire diameter, a blue light shows that Auto-SetTM is activated
Dial in the thickness of what you’re welding
Start welding with the exact parameters you need!
Infinite voltage control gives you the flexibility to manually set the machine when welding aluminum, stainless steel, or anytime you want to set your own parameters on mild steel.

Welds thickest material in its class! The Millermatic® 180 Auto-SetTM has the highest output in its class. It can weldfrom24ga–5/16in(0.8–7.9mm) mild steel in a single pass.

Spool gun compatible! Finally a reliable and economic way to weld aluminum. Hooked up to a Millermatic® 180 Auto-Set TM, the Spoolmate 100 Series spool gun allows you to weld from 18 ga – 1/4 in aluminum.

Smooth-Start TM provides a smooth, spatter-free start. It’s the best-starting machine in the small MIG machine category. No pop gun starts and no spatter to clean up.

Durable cast-aluminum drive system
incorporates dual-groove quick-change drive roll and spring-loaded tension arm with calibrated tension knob, all designed to make set up easier and faster.

Thermal overload protection shuts down unit and activates over temperature light if airflow is blocked or duty cycle is exceeded. Automatically resets when fault is corrected and unit cools.

Comes Complete With:

Power source
6 ft (1.8 m) power cord and plug
10 ft (3 m) M-100 MIG gun and cable assembly 10 ft (3 m) work cable and clamp
Smith® Argon and AR/CO2 mix regulator/flow gauge with hose
Spool of Hobart® .030 in (0.8 mm) solid wire Two contact tips for .024 in (0.6 mm) wire and two contact tips for .030 in (0.8 mm) wire Dual-groove quick-change drive roll for .024 in (0.6 mm) or .030/.035 in (0.8/0.9 mm) wire Factory-installed gas
solenoid valve
Set-up and operation CD
Information/settings chart
Material thickness gauge #229895
Note: Shielding gas and safety equipment not included

Easy access to output studs provides convenient polarity changeover when changing from solid or flux cored wires.

Miller’s “Tip Saver” short circuit protection shuts down output when tip is shorted to the work. Extends contact tip life and protects internal components from damage. Trigger reset permits quick reset at torch rather than unit.

Standard built-in solid-state contactor circuit makes wire electrically “cold” until trigger is pulled, making the unit safer. It’s also easier to position torch to work before starting weld.

Uses4or8in(102or203mm) spools and can be set up to weld with wire sizes .024–.035 in (0.6–0.9 mm) mild/stainless steel and .030 – .045 in (0.8 – 1.2 mm) flux cored.
 

sberry

Banned
Joined
Jun 18, 2005
Messages
35,747
Location
Brethren, Michigan
I actually like the cheaper models just as good from the operator end. The Hobarts are very good, the 190 has a great arc. Another one is the red one from the box store with the 5 speed in it. The made it for 40 yrs, its tuned flawless with 030 and good to great with 023 on sheet.
The auto set may work fine, its not something I would really go after but that 180 is a deal. Its a poor substitute for being able to adjust the machine.
 
Last edited:

kkroger

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 21, 2013
Messages
1,143
I'd go with a Miller 211 or a Hobart 210.
Whatever you get will come with a regulator and a NEMA 6-50 P it will not plug into your dryer outlet... you will need to either make an adapter cord or install a compatible receptacle, a NEMA 6-50R Keeping in mind that the supply cord on the welder is not that long, and the work leads on smaller welders are generally also not that long...
 
OP
G

gemnewt

Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2009
Messages
21
Location
Yucca Valley, Ca.
Will the Miller 180 plug into my dryer or will I have to make an adapter cord?
You've all been great with your responses, Thanks.
One more thing the distance from my dryer to my wagon is approximately 45 Feet will this present any problems?
sberry what do you mean: Its a poor substitute for being able to adjust the machine.
 
Last edited:

sleepy127

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 1, 2014
Messages
251
Location
Flaherty, KY
Also remember to include the cost of gas and a bottle for your mig unless you are planning on getting by using flux core. I purchased my bottle out right with a fill and it was a little over $300 but maybe you can find a deal from your local welding supply store
 

GN4WHLN

Well-known member
Joined
May 8, 2009
Messages
2,073
Location
Alta Loma, CA
I have a Lincoln Power Mig 180 which is the smaller end of their industrial line (as opposed to the Pro Mig hobby series you can buy at HD/Lowes/Sears) It has been an excellent welder and I have had no problems with it over the 4 or five years I have owned it. I paid less than 700 with no tax or shipping from Welding Supplies at IOC. The Welder was shipped directly from Lincoln. I also have a spool gun on it and have done some aluminum. It came with a regulator and the usual accessories. I set it up for gas and never looked back.
 

Griff93

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 25, 2009
Messages
1,121
Location
Huntsville, AL
I actually like the cheaper models just as good from the operator end. The Hobarts are very good, the 190 has a great arc. Another one is the red one from the box store with the 5 speed in it. The made it for 40 yrs, its tuned flawless with 030 and good to great with 023 on sheet.
The auto set may work fine, its not something I would really go after but that 180 is a deal. Its a poor substitute for being able to adjust the machine.

You have apparently not used an auto set machine. It has all the same manual controls in addition to the autoset features.

I have an older miller 175 that has been great. I'm doing more and more thicker than 1/4" plate work so I'm thinking about getting a larger machine myself. I'll probably go with a 252 at some point. I would ****** up that deal posted for the 180. For what you want to do with it, it will be a good machine that will serve you for years.
 
OP
G

gemnewt

Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2009
Messages
21
Location
Yucca Valley, Ca.
I couldn't find anything in the way of price that came close to it . I hope i'm not disappointed in my decision and it does every thing I need it to do. Kudos to you BD1 for giving me the heads up to this great deal and sberry for confirming it and to all others who chimed in. I can tell you guys have done a lot of welding. I haven't welded before except for a little acetylene back in 71'. This 51' wagon is a tribute car build for my brother who died suddenly and he was born in 51'. Thanks Again Everyone!
 

woodturner9

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 16, 2007
Messages
576
Location
Indiana(ish)
I would like not to go over $700, I would like to plug in to my 220v dryer plug.

In most cases, it is neither safe nor legal to plug a welder into a dryer receptacle. IF you have a four prong dryer receptacle, you may be able to make it work, but it is still not to code or safe.

A dryer is a dual voltage device and uses 120 and 220 VAC. Typical dryer connection is two hots and a neutral - for the welder, you want two hots and a ground.

Regarding welders, I purchased the Eastwood MIG 140, which can be purchased on sale around $200. I have been using it to do sheet metal repair in the flux core mode and have been very happy with it. It will work with gas, and that was my original plan, but it has worked so well with the flux core that I haven't bothered to get the gas.
 

BD1

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 18, 2007
Messages
4,602
Location
north side
The 180 will handle your needs. As for a tank, get prices from all suppliers. Tanks can be priced all over the charts.
Checkout the WELDINGWEB site, search it for tanks, and you may find something in your area. OR join and post your location wanting a supplier for tanks and it could save you $$$$.
http://weldingweb.com/
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!
OP
G

gemnewt

Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2009
Messages
21
Location
Yucca Valley, Ca.
woodturner9, you mentioned that a dryer is a dual voltage device and uses 120 and 220 VAC. Typical dryer connection is two hots and a neutral - for the welder, you want two hots and a ground and if I have a four prong dryer receptacle, I might be able to make it work, but it is still not to code or safe. I went out and looked at the plug in the receptacle and it only has three prongs. Am I s_ _ _t out of luck, will I have to call an electrician? Is this something I can do myself?
 
Last edited:

woodturner9

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 16, 2007
Messages
576
Location
Indiana(ish)
I went out and looked at the plug in the receptacle and it only has three prongs. Am I s_ _ _t out of luck, will I have to call an electrician? Is this something I can do myself?

You can make it work, but it's not really safe, and you would still need to run an additional wire. It would be better to install a dedicated receptacle for the router. Depending on your skill level and experience, you may be able to do it yourself.

Do you have a buddy who is experienced with wiring, or a friendly electrician that would check your work and make the final connections at a reasonable cost?

Wiring the receptacle and running the wire is pretty simple, but installing the breaker and connecting the wiring to the breaker is higher risk. If you could install the receptacle and run the wire, which is most of the work, then have an electrician or experienced person connect the wires to the breaker and install the breaker, that should be economical.

If you tell me which welder and the distance (to within 10' or so - ballpark distance) from the receptacle to the service panel, I can tell you what wire to get.
 

DonPowers

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 7, 2014
Messages
4,398
Location
On The Hair At The End Of The Dog's Tail
The link below provides a good explanation of grounds and neutrals. To summarize, on the main panel the ground and neutral bars are connected while in sub panels they are not. Consequently, the ground and neutral in a four wire outlet would be connected to the same bar in the main panel but would be isolated in a sub panel.

http://diy.stackexchange.com/questi...grounds-and-neutrals-on-bars-in-a-breaker-box

Hope this helps

Don
 

mustangmike6996

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 13, 2011
Messages
1,180
Location
Detroit MI
I have a Lincoln 180 and LOVE it. Its does everything I can do in my 2 1/2 car garage. I have done frame rails to sheet metal. I scored a deal on CL (used) for about $500. The guy was running flux-core spool and had the aluminum gun. I walked away with an almost new machine, spool gun, 4 foot tank, cart, Kobalt helmet, 10 11 lbs spools, consumables, slag hammers, brushes and some extra for a heck of a deal.

I used a NEMA 6-50P/ 6-50R setup. That is what was on the welder and what it recommended. I wired my garage with 8-3 (IIRC).
 

woodturner9

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 16, 2007
Messages
576
Location
Indiana(ish)
Consequently, the ground and neutral in a four wire outlet would be connected to the same bar in the main panel but would be isolated in a sub panel.

Thanks for the link, that should help clarify,

Yes, and they not only should be isolated, by code they must be isolated. The ground and neutral are kept separate and tied together in only one place. The reason is safety - we want no current to flow in the safety ground, so that in the case of an event, it will protect human life. If there is more than one connection, it may not protect human life.

Impulse event such as a shock do not operate in quite the same way as "normal" circuits. People will put a meter between neutral and ground and say they are connected so it doesn't matter, but that is not correct when surges and faults happen.

The electrical code is carefully considered and reviewed - there are very good reasons why everything is in there. People complain about some requirements, but the bottom line is the code is there to protect life.
 

woodturner9

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 16, 2007
Messages
576
Location
Indiana(ish)
If the recept is from the main panel then the 3 wire is a grounded outlet.

Sorry but that is not accurate. A three prong dryer receptacle has two hots and a neutral - no ground. The assumption is that the dryer frame will be grounded separated to a water pipe or other earth ground. This is the old way of doing things but is grandfathered in.

A four prong dryer receptacle does have separate neutral and ground wires.

The important point here is that neutral and ground cannot safely be connected together anywhere other than one single point, typically in the service panel. As a result, a 3 prong dryer type receptacle cannot be legally or safely used to power a welder.
 

03protege

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 13, 2012
Messages
3,104
Location
Louisiana
The answer is Miller 211. It's always Miller 211. Wait for zoro to have a sale or just save up the difference.

If you have the space you can find an older MM250. I love mine. I'd be careful with the 251 however. The electronics can be troublesome. The 252 is likely not in your budget but it's awesome.

End of Thread!

http://www.millerwelds.com/landing/...blue&utm_medium=homepagead&utm_content=online

Zoro.com has 20% and 30% off flash sales every couple months. Couple that with the Miller rebates and you are set!
 

woodturner9

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 16, 2007
Messages
576
Location
Indiana(ish)
End of Thread!

Why would you think this is the end of the thread? Might be nothing wrong with Miller, but not everyone likes Miller, and there are much better options, depending on what you are doing. If money is a concern at all, you can definitely get comparable (and in some cases identical) products without the brand name label much more reasonable prices.
 

motofool33

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 2, 2013
Messages
1,634
Location
Currently North of Houston
Did some welding today, and everytime i bust out my inverter Mig machine i fall in love with its beads again. Made in china but the technology is awesome (longevity 200amp pulsed arc Mig)
 

3 Gun Shooter

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 29, 2015
Messages
880
Loook on Craigslist, you can buy a Miller 35 for in the $400-500 range. I only own Miller welders but the Hobart is not a bad choice. Never have liked anything Lincoln builds since the old Pipeliner and the torpedo.
 

sberry

Banned
Joined
Jun 18, 2005
Messages
35,747
Location
Brethren, Michigan
Sorry but that is not accurate. A three prong dryer receptacle has two hots and a neutral - no ground. The assumption is that the dryer frame will be grounded separated to a water pipe or other earth ground. This is the old way of doing things but is grandfathered in.

A four prong dryer receptacle does have separate neutral and ground wires.

The important point here is that neutral and ground cannot safely be connected together anywhere other than one single point, typically in the service panel. As a result, a 3 prong dryer type receptacle cannot be legally or safely used to power a welder.

This needs to be re worded or have a bit better understanding, I am not sure which is the case here. A dryer outlet is not the proper one but it is grounded. Its not wired correctly if it is on a 4 wire sub for a 240 appliance but its still grounded.
If it comes from a main service panel it is wired the same as a 6-50-R other than the fact the 6 series has a bond to the yoke from the ground pin.
 
Last edited:

sberry

Banned
Joined
Jun 18, 2005
Messages
35,747
Location
Brethren, Michigan
As a result, a 3 prong dryer type receptacle cannot be legally or safely used to power a welder.
Legal no, safe yes other than the fact that there is no yoke bond, if this dryer outlet was placed in a metal box the box would not be grounded.
The reason for 4 wire isn't to insure grounding per sa, its to eliminate alternate pathways for neutral currents. It makes all the neutral wires and grounded conductors insulated.
 
Last edited:

Playwme

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 13, 2012
Messages
2,032
Location
The Lucky Country Down Under
Even though you've already purchased I'm going another vote for the Lincoln 180. Stepless adjustment knobs let you dial right in on your settings. I'd been using a mates one for about 6 months until recently when I took advantage of a "what do you want for Father's Day?" enquiry to go buy my own.
 

woodturner9

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 16, 2007
Messages
576
Location
Indiana(ish)
A dryer outlet is not the proper one but it is grounded.

A three prong dryer outlet does not have a ground - it has two hots and a neutral. A three prong dryer outlet is NOT grounded.

The neutral is connected to ground at the service panel, but the neutral is NOT ground. The neutral cannot safely nor legally be used as the ground.

A four prong receptacle has a ground wire - so it could be used, but is still not to code.

The reason for 4 wire isn't to insure grounding per sa, its to eliminate alternate pathways for neutral currents. It makes all the neutral wires and grounded conductors insulated.

A common misunderstanding is that "ground" is a voltage return - and that is accurate in DC and low voltage circuits, but not for AC power wiring. The purpose of the ground in AC power wiring is to conduct only to protect human life. No current is allowed to flow in the ground during normal use (that's what GFCIs do, detect current flow in the ground) and so the ground cannot be obtained through the neutral, it MUST be a separate wire.

A three prong dryer receptacle has two hots and a neutral, but no ground. The ground must be obtained through a fourth separate wire through another path, traditionally a wire bonded to a nearby water pipe. A four wire receptacle has a ground wire and does not require a fourth separate wire to get the ground.


This page has some pictures that may help.
 
Last edited:

DonPowers

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 7, 2014
Messages
4,398
Location
On The Hair At The End Of The Dog's Tail
I don't get all this debate regarding ground and neutral. Inside a main panel the ground and neutral are bonded, making them the same potential electrically.

My miller 211 has a three prong plug. If the receptacle is connected to the main, it will be connected to the same electrical potential, period. If your receptacle is connected to a sub panel then the neutral and ground are isolated. In any event, most small welders have 3 prong plugs, not 4.
 

motofool33

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 2, 2013
Messages
1,634
Location
Currently North of Houston
I don't get all this debate regarding ground and neutral. Inside a main panel the ground and neutral are bonded, making them the same potential electrically.

My miller 211 has a three prong plug. If the receptacle is connected to the main, it will be connected to the same electrical potential, period. If your receptacle is connected to a sub panel then the neutral and ground are isolated. In any event, most small welders have 3 prong plugs, not 4.
My new construction build garage condo has 3 prong 220volt plugs that were wired for welders I have my 5hp compressor in one snd my 200 amp mig in the other.

Not saying it's right but it works.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk
 

sberry

Banned
Joined
Jun 18, 2005
Messages
35,747
Location
Brethren, Michigan
A three prong dryer receptacle has two hots and a neutral, but no ground. The ground must be obtained through a fourth separate wire through another path, traditionally a wire bonded to a nearby water pipe. A four wire receptacle has a ground wire and does not require a fourth separate wire to get the ground.
As I said I can see some issue here and am not sure why but while the old 3 wire is not a grounding outlet but the conductor is grounded, even insulated. The ground wire in a 4 wire terminates on the neutral bar at service main, it does not go to the ground rod, or to "another path" or to a nearby water pipe.
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!
Top Bottom