Need help Planning an air system

[barrysuperhawk]

Ok, I know this can be a touchy subject here, so let me START with the fact that I intend to use a rapidair kit (or something similar) in my garage. I don't think I could afford to run iron pipe or copper to do what I want, and I also don't think I have the talent to do either of those myself or the $$ to pay someone else.

Currently I have a well built 1950's open stud garage, where I can see the back of the sheathing from inside. My compressor currently lives up in the far corner (next to the door) because it is loud as heck. Right now I just have one HF reel mounted directly above it using about 3 feet of a 30 foot rubber hose to connect.

Eventually, I want to finish the walls with insulation and drywall, so I am trying not to do anything that is going to hamper that process...and that is where I have my questions. Anything that I surface mount to the studs is going to have to come back off when I drywall, so I want the lines in the wall, but boring holes through these 1950's studs is ridiculous, they are HARD.

It seems logical the the air goes up from the compressor, then I run my "distribution" through my attic, dropping air lines down between studs wherever I need them. Where this gets slightly more complicated is that I want to also supply air to all 3 sides of my garage on the inside, 2 sides on the outside, one outlet in my attached breezeway and my basement. This means that I am going to have a couple of 50+ foot runs, and my longest run is going to be 60-70 feet just to get to the area, depending on where it ends up, making sense to put it, possibly over 100.

The good news is that I won't need full pressure or super high flow on the longest runs, (the plasma cutter and blast cabinet will live in the garage).
I like rapidair because the 1/2" (all plastic) lines seemed the easiest, but if I jump up to 3/4 then I have to deal with bending metal.

What is the simplest way to "design" this, Sketchup? Something else? I have poor luck with pencil-and-paper sketches of plans, so I would like to try something a bit more accurate.

If I skip the kit(s) and just buy parts, can I go with something like a regular roll of pex (cheaper?) and then add rapidair manifolds? I like the rapidair push connectors. Is there another product that does the same that can be flush mounted for drywall?

 

[PT Doc]

Read up and do your research. I think you will find that the rapid air kits leak. This can be costly and frustrating. If you want a solid air system that is not copper or black pipe then look at Prevost. They build air system components and supply manufacturing plants. This product line is simply not in the same league as rapid air. It's worth looking into to see if it would be a solution for your air needs.

 

[73surffisher]

Hello Barry,
I use Microsoft Visio, I have seen sketchup (I think there is a free version) but haven't tried it yet, , I haven't used any of the products, mention, I used copper, and ball valves, expensive but I only wanted to do it once.

Let us know how the project progresses

 

[barrysuperhawk]

Read up and do your research. I think you will find that the rapid air kits leak. This can be costly and frustrating. If you want a solid air system that is not copper or black pipe then look at Prevost. They build air system components and supply manufacturing plants. This product line is simply not in the same league as rapid air. It's worth looking into to see if it would be a solution for your air needs.

Meh, thats what I was afraid of, If I don't take out a second mortgage, and spend every bit of it on an air system I probably should not bother?

 

[sberry]

How big is the garage? I set up so my hose feels can reach out the door as am as inside. I don't like hydrants, I want a fixed hose on a real or whip. The only coupled is on the business end where the tool connects, ain't no way I couldn't make a couple reels and a bit of pipe work in a common garage, put a T after the reg, add hose for a plasma. I wouldn't mess with pipe in the wall, hang it, so what if you got to take a bracket off to drywall a couple spots.

 

[matt_i]

Imo if you are going to run lines inside the walls, there's no touching them ever, after the drywall is finished (unless one carves it back open). But I would use copper, hands-down to achieve that.

Drilling hard studs should become easier if you use an impact tool and a spade or paddle bit with a screw thread on the center point. Some of the Bosch and probably others have this feature.

Copper is not hard to do, imo. Keep clean and keep it water-free. The second is a gimme in air-systems

 

[barrysuperhawk]

So, here's a question, one of the advantages that I have heard about metal piping, copper or iron, is that they do an excellent job of cooling the air thus assisting in the drying process. Doesn't that also mean they will sweat too? Something that I may not want in drywall...

 

[850xpeps]

So, here's a question, one of the advantages that I have heard about metal piping, copper or iron, is that they do an excellent job of cooling the air thus assisting in the drying process. Doesn't that also mean they will sweat too? Something that I may not want in drywall...

Copper is the best at dissipating heat. Your not pumping cold water through a warm pipe. Thats how you get sweat. You will be pumping warm air through a cool pipe. Moisture is on the inside. Which it will not rust like black pipe will. I would surface mount it incase anything ever happened. But copper is easy to sweat together I’m not sure why people think it’s hard. Easier than black pipe imo.

 

[firebirdparts]

The "sweat" will be on the inside, and you'll need drains at every low point.

 

[ford33]

Are you gold plating this project? In other words making it more functional than needed. Consider your actual needs and save some money to spend later on tools you will use.

How big is your garage and how do you plan to use the compressed air?

From your description, the number of drops on three garage walls, two outside, and also a run to the basement seems like a lot for a home shop pneumatic system.

Do you need air outlets on all three walls of a garage and two outside and a basement? How often are you using air outside and in the basement? A small portable compressor might be better suited for those tasks and provide you a portable source later.

I installed copper pipe grade "L" have two wall connections and a ceiling mounted reel. In five years of use, only once have I used a wall connection. The ceiling mounted reel is easier to use and with its long hose I can reach the cars in the driveway. An additional hose connected and I can reach to the street.

 

[jfrey123]

We had copper pipe for compressed air running all over a manufacturing warehouse I used to work for. No point of use dryers, and not every point had a drop drain. The running joke was that we could fight fires with our air hoses because of all the moisture. I live in Northern Nevada, extremely low humidity, and we never had an issue with the copper sweating on the outside, but always had moisture in the lines.

 

[firebirdparts]

I also for years have been using a single reel mounted dead in the middle of my shop. I have about 50 feet of hose. Sometimes I think about building a fancy air network,but I have really never needed any more.

 

[850xpeps]

Our 50x60 has 3 drops. 1 at compressor, 1 down the wall from it about 40’ and one down the adjacent wall about 40’. We have 2 - 50’ hoses in 3/8” and 2 in 1/2” for the big gun. We can reach out to the end of our 53’ trailers when trucks pulled up to door if we need. That’s plenty for us.

 

[Smoker]

Black pipe and copper is pretty cheap. I bought all the pipe stock and fittings for my 30 x 30 shop for the same cost as a rapidair kit. The problem with the kit is when you want to add on the fittings are so dang expensive. $13 per vs $2 for a copper fitting. Plus sweated on copper fittings are good to something ridiculous like 1200psi.

My 30 x 30 has one drop at the compressor, one to a hose reel by the door, a dedicated one for the blast cabinet and one on the opposite wall. About 80 feet of pipe in all. I did the riser and main header in 3/4" black pipe and the drops in 1/2" copper.

 

[Falcon67]

I use all black iron and haven't noted any sweating at all. I ran all mine outside of the wall covering for ease of service or changes.

>Ok, I know this can be a touchy subject here
Only if the initial post contains the letters "PVC"

 

[red94chev]

I just did the RapidAir 3/4 kit in my garage and love it. No problems at all and not that hard to get fairly straight without the straightening tool. I surface mounted mine over my OSB walls and I'm not sure I would mount any airlines in the wall in case you ever need to fix something. I can grab some pictures if you'd like

 

[turbowoodworker]

Black pipe is not that expensive, is easy to put up, and in a smaller garage, your number of drops will keep cost reasonable. More reasonable than RapidAire.

 

[sberry]

You don't need every fitting that is to be added to be for the kit, you can transition to common fittings with 1 adapter.

 

[marinusdees]

Black pipe is not that expensive, is easy to put up, and in a smaller garage, your number of drops will keep cost reasonable. More reasonable than RapidAire.

Amen.

 

[RWorth]

Barry, I did all my electric in 3/4" emt on studded walls before I insulated and sheet rocked. I cut up 5/8" blocks and screw mounted everything on so when I did sheet rock, I just pulled the blocks off.

 

[SgtHawkUSMC]

IMO, copper is the only way to go. I know black pipe is popular, but for those using it, have you ever disassembled a section? It gets a ton of rust and scale unless you are drying the air before it gets to it.
I built mine similar to this system. I don't have the air dryer though. My one mistake was not using 3/4' for the main line and then dropping down to 1/2". I used 1/2" all through it. It still works great though.

Air Compressor Piping by Dave H, on Flickr

 

[pcmeiners]

"Copper is the best at dissipating heat. "
Copper may be one of the best metals for dissipating heat but clean copper is a poor radiator of heat, this has been covered before. Copper has good radiation qualities only if it is chemically oxidized to a dark color or after many years of natural oxidation.

"Refer to link Emissivity Values for better table

Surface Material Emmissity Surface Material Emmissity
Aluminium-Oxidised 0.11 .... Tile 0.97
Aluminium-Polished 0.05 ....... Water 0.95
Aluminium anodised 0.77 ...... Wood-Oak 0.9
Aluminium rough 0.07............. Paint 0.96
Asbestos Board 0.94...../......... Paper 0.93
Black Body -Matt 1.00...... .....,. P lastics 0.91 Av
Brass -Dull 0.22 ................ .... Rubber-Nat_Hard 0.91
Brass- Polished 0.03 .............. Rubber _Nat_Soft 0.86
Brick -Dark 0.9 ........................steel_Oxidised 0.79 (black pipe)
Concrete 0.85 ......................... Steel Polished 0.07
Copper-Oxidised 0.87............... St.Steel-Weathered 0.85
Copper -Polished 0.04........... St.Steel-Polished 0.15
Glass 0.92............................... Steel Galv. Old 0.88
Plaster 0.98...............................Steel Galv new 0.23"

 

[barrysuperhawk]

Are you gold plating this project? In other words making it more functional than needed. Consider your actual needs and save some money to spend later on tools you will use. <snip>

Answer #1: It has NEVER, EVER been about need.

Answer #2: I don't think I am gold plating it, I currently use a single reel and extensions to get where I need to be, but I have found myself on several occasions thinking that wrangling the air hose around and not being able to close doors, etc. was a pain in the ****, and that I really ought to do something better. If I run air to where I want it in the basement (for a little shop area) then I am going right past or at least close to the other places I would like to have it, so I "might as well" add drops there too...

I mean of course, I could drag my little pancake compressor around, but it's almost as much of a pain and just as loud as the big compressor.

 

[sberry]

It's worth some pipe to make it convenient, that's what it's all about. Having used it some you can have a good idea what you need, don't have to build extra on speculation. In a common garage 1/2 is plenty even without a loop which I am not all that nuts about in small garages. I would rather keep the air velocity up just a little, enough to drive it down to a drop or filter. The loop is a good idea in some places, plants with constant air use beyond drops, long runs, longer than they can get in a 40 ft pole barn.
Most of the loss in these type of systems is in the secondary thru the hoses. A heavy 1/2 impact can lose near a pound a foot thru 3/8 hose while the loss on a 1/2 steel pipe even at 100 ft be 3# or so, only a pound better with 3/4.

 

[Black Oak]

the rapidair lowest cost 1/2" system will leak in time , so they say . next step up is the "maxline" which has better designed fittings , and more robust semi-flexible tubing . i would price your system in that line of product and see where that takes you. lots of guys here say they have been happy with it.

 

[TMcCay]

Barry,
When I did my shop I used the Rapid Air 3/4" kit. I used 2 of them for my 40 x 40 shop. I have 2 hose reels and if I remember correctly 7 drops. I didn't want the air lines to be dragged all over just because of a lack of drops. I unrolled it as well as I could but now someone on Youtube is showing how they built a jig to unroll it straighter then I managed to get mine.
Look into the 3/4" kit. I bought mine at Northern Tool at the time. Very easy to work with.

 

[zmotorsports]

I waffled on copper because that is what I had in my last shop. I wanted something that was more modular as well as a bit more aesthetically pleasing in my new shop so I ended up going with the 1" (25mm) kit from Aircom. I actually used a total of 3 kits in my 50x60x16 shop/RV garage and love how clean it looks. I ended up with a total of 10 drops in my shop and one in my RV/storage bay. I have seven (7) dual manifold drops then two air hose reel drops and one drop between mine and my son's milling machines.

I have quite a few pictures of mine being installed in my shop/RV build thread in my signature, the air installation starts somewhere around page 80 or so.

 

[LaneRover]

I am going to be putting in a system soon too (hopefully) and was just going to use black pipe - wasn't going to try and build it all in one go either. My thought was build the portion first that is a combination of most useful and/or the most annoying to currently use my wee little pancake compressor. This would spread out the cost and may even help decide what is really needed/wanted.

 

[Nivekdodge]

In the diagram there are a few very inexpensive ideas that work well to cut down on moisture in the system. notice the up and over of each drop. Notice the "fall" of the system to the big drain leg. notice a drain leg on every drop. As the moisture cools into water you need to put it somewhere.

 

[Nivekdodge]

If you plan on spray painting anything- Would you drain the petcock of your compressor into your paint before you start?

 

[Git]

So what if the rapid air system leaks - I mean how bad could it actually leak?

Get on of the motorized ball valves and turn off the air at the compressor unless your going to actually be using it. easy peasy. A number of ways to activate the valve - even voice control through Amazon Echo

 

[mcbane]

"Copper is the best at dissipating heat. "
Copper may be one of the best metals for dissipating heat but clean copper is a poor radiator of heat, this has been covered before.... "

This is true for highly polished copper (which does seem to be popular), but there would still be a rather high heat dissipation due to conduction. I dont think emissivity is that big of a deal but if there is a concern, avoid polishing the copper and instead using a very light misting of black rattle can paint on the copper to maximize emissivity.