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Need help with a span question

CDAIdaho

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Sep 21, 2022
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I am building a lean to on my 30x30 shop that will have 2X12 rafters hung on 6x6 posts with 2x6 purlins 24 O.C. The post spacing is 10'. I would like to maximize the width of the lean to and I am wondering how wide I can make the lean to with a 2x12 rafter with 2x6 purlins. I am hoping to have a clear span of 12' 8"

Project info:
-Roof dead load is 5 PSF
-Roof live load (snow) is 40 PSF
-Roof pitch: 4/12
-Open sides on lean to
lean to.jpg
 
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CDAIdaho

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Thanks, Stuart. All the calculators like this show rafter sizing/spacing for spans which is what you use for the purlins. I'm looking for the roof rafter that carries the purlins - what distance I can span with the 2x12. Maybe the render below describes this better.
lean to2.jpg
 
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pattenp

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I believe you're using wrong terminology. What you are calling a roof beam that the purlin goes between are rafters. What is the rafter size and spacing?
 
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CDAIdaho

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The rafter spacing is 9' 5" O.C. maximum and the rafter is a 2x12. Purlins are 2x6, 24" O.C. Here is the floor plan with dimensions.
lean to3.jpg
 

kinglake

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I've never seen a lean-to framed that way in my area with dimensional lumber. Typically it is done something like below. You substitute the plywood with perlins. You can span a heck of a lot more width framed like the below using 2x12 than you can in the image you provided.

Leanto-Addition-800.jpg
 

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chad215

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I've never seen a lean-to framed that way in my area with dimensional lumber. Typically it is done something like below. You substitute the plywood with perlins. You can span a heck of a lot more width framed like the below using 2x12 than you can in the image you provided.

Leanto-Addition-800.jpg
This is the correct (and much easier to frame) way.
 
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CDAIdaho

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Thanks for the reply Kinglake. Most shops and lean-to's here are framed with structural (pocket purlins) like my example. I did estimates to frame with traditional rafters like your image (2x10 24 O.C. and it was 45% more expensive for the lumber. It's also easier labor-wise for me doing this by myself (no exterior wall ledger, no birdsmouth). In my case, I don't need to go really wide. I just need about 12'6' wide.


any lean to4.jpg
 

kinglake

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I can't see how the purlins in your method add any significant structural integrity to the span of the 2x12. There are no span charts obviously for 2x12 rafters on 10ft spacing. Even if there were, it would be a very minimal span with your loading. In addition, in your image there is minimal lateral bracing.

Do you have pictures of something similar in your area framed this way? I believe you that is is common, I'm just curious if there are additional structural elements not shown in your rendering.
 
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Firebrick43

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I am building a lean to on my 30x30 shop that will have 2X12 rafters hung on 6x6 posts with 2x6 purlins 24 O.C. The post spacing is 10'. I would like to maximize the width of the lean to and I am wondering how wide I can make the lean to with a 2x12 rafter with 2x6 purlins. I am hoping to have a clear span of 12' 8"

Project info:
-Roof dead load is 5 PSF
-Roof live load (snow) is 40 PSF
-Roof pitch: 4/12
-Open sides on lean to
lean to.jpg
First, What you are asking is going to have to be engineered, by an engineer. The rafter tables have been "pre engineered" as to not needing an engineer to do so.

Second, doing some basic engineering myself, you are no where close to a size of rafter to span 12'8" with an 9'5" oc. This would be in the glue-lam range or LVLs, or a half truss. Rafters on 24" centers would work well however. I would guess they method you have drawn was on an old 50's/60's pole buildings. They have much less stringent design loads then. I have not seen a building here after the 80's built like you have shown, very few of the 70's barns were either.

Third, you calculated 45 percent better cost, but you didn't know the rafter size(you assumed), It would have to be high grade wood as well which would be special ordered(i saw no mention to the grade of wood your wanting to use) and expensive. Also did you down size the "purlins" for 24" rafter spacing? You wouldn't need purlins at all, you could even get away with 1x4's, more to stabilize the rafters than provide support for the roofing with a 24" spacing on the rafters. Most used 2x4s. My lean too is made like kinglake showed with 2x4's instead of osb/ply.

Third, Why would you need a ledger? You place it on the outer truss support/plate of the existing barn. No birds mouth needed either, you use a 2x10 on the inner plate of the outer poles of the lean to, and a 2x8 on the outer plate slide up to the bottom of the rafters after they have been placed. Use a simpsion strong tie VPA clip to hold it down to the plates, stronger then birdmouth/toenail.
 

kinglake

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If you are against traditional rafters, the below option of steel trusses might work. In the south, these are extremely common and generally cheaper than using dimensional lumber. I do not know if they are sufficient for your snow loads however.

shed-truss.jpg
 

ipgenie

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Idaho
I live in Idaho and the wing on each side of my engineered pole barn is framed like the OP is showing.
I had to use 4x12 "rafters" to span 12' and 2x8x12 perlins. I also had to sheet it with 7/16 OSB before installing the steel panels. I cut my 4x12 rafters out of fir on a mill but doubled up 2x12s would have been accepted. I had to build steel stirrups to anchor the rafters to the top of the lower post and the building with 3/4" bolts. I attached a picture of the 4x12 area.

Edit: the angle of the picture makes it hard to tell, but the rafter is anchored to the lower post in the picture and runs up to a similar anchor higher up on the building.

When I added on, I wanted the perlins to span 14' instead of 12'. The engineer required 6x12 "rafters" and doubled up 2x8x14 perlins. He said the 4x12 and 2x8x12 combination was right at the limit for the span.

I would guess that doubled 2x12 rafters similar to your drawing would be fine with 9' perlins. I think the engineer would require a double 2x12 on each end also. I would notch the top of the posts and set the rafters in the notch rather than fastening them to the sides of the post.
 

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jack stand

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My "seat of the pants" answer would be doubling up 11 3/4 LVL's to carry the purlins.
Screw them together with a good Simpson or GRK 5/16 "structural" screw.
 
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CDAIdaho

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Good thoughts, ipgenie and jack stand. I think I'll bring it to an engineer and see what they want. I have a copy of an engineered plan for a shop with lean to that is being built down the street and they have 2x12 with the same spacing and 2x6 purlins but the clear span is 10'. The extra 2' 5" of span looks like it'll need a bit more than 2x12. Thanks for the input!

Kinglake, here are a few pics of this type of framing. One is my shop built in 2018. The other is of a lean to from the website of the builder who built my shop.
lean to6.jpg

lean to7.jpg
 
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CDAIdaho

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For the benefit of someone in the future looking for an answer, I spoke to an engineer on Friday. For this span I can use a 1-3/4" x 11-1/4" LVL (same depth as the 2x12) for my rafter and 2x6 purlins 24" OC. The distance between the rafters is 9' 3-1/2"

This will give me a 55 PSF snow load rating, 15 PSF dead load and span 12' 7" (width of the lean-to).
 
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