Need help with buying a lathe

[Jamie V]

I'm going to go look at some lathes tomorrow at a local machinery place. I'm not real sure what I should be looking for or how much I should be paying.

I stopped yesterday and looked at an old south bend model A benchtop. It's a model CL 670Z. He wanted $650 for it.

After looking online I'm not sure if I should be looking for one that has the motor below the lathe in a cabinet instead of one like that where it's behind it.

I'm a rookie and I only know enough to get in trouble. I'm not sure what to look for besides basic mechanical stuff.

 

[roachcoach]

There is some good information here http://www.mermac.com/advicenew.html. I would look at old Logan/Powerkraft, Southbend, Hardinge, and Clausing. One thing I wish I had was a quick change gear box, nice if you are planning on doing threading.

I would also play close attention to the condition of the ways, there is way to test the conditions outlined in the above link.

Good luck! You will love having a lathe, one of my favorite tools hands down.

 

[bullnerd]

Hi Jamie,

Whats the name of the dealer? Is it the one in Sicklerville?

Im a little farther north but Ive been to the one in Sicklerville.

Was never a fan of the southbend stuff.

Logan, Clausing, delta rockwell all good choices.

Personally I would keep an eye on CL or Ebay, the dealers are going to be much pricier.

PS. spent many Fri nights at Atco!

 

[metal4130]

If your looking at lathes you definitely want to get one with a quick change gear box. The lathes with the motor in the cabinet are more appealing to me because they take up less floor space. A very large expense in any lathe is the tooling so if the only thing your getting is a bare lathe it might end up being an expensive option in the long run. I currently own a South Bend 10K but am looking for a Heavy Ten.

 

[A_Pmech]

James,

What do you want to make with the machine? We can't intelligently discuss machinery until we have an idea of what you want to do with it.

 

[zkling]

To what AP mech said. The more you tell us the more we can help you

-How much if any experence do you have running a lathe?
-What is your main purpose for a lathe? Making watch parts or cannon barrels?
-How much space do you have?
-What kind of power do you have available?
-Do you have the capability to transport a large, 2k LB+ machine?

Two major things to keep in mind.
Overall condition, particularly of the spindle and bed.
What all tooling comes with the lathe. Tooling purchases separately can really add up, very fast. At a minimum a 4 jaw for the headstock, a drill chuck and live center for the tail stock and a old style lantern tool post will get you turning.

I think that model is a 10K, commonly refereed to as a light ten. A good home shop machine, as long as it is not worn out. If you can take someone that knows lathes with you to inspect it, great.

Machine sellers like that are in the business to make money. Figure if they are selling it for $675 they are making a profit and thus bought it much cheaper. For a company to let it go that cheap I bet it is pretty worn.

 

[Jamie V]

I'm not wanting to make anything specific. I just recently built my first "big" garage (24'x40') and now I have room to actually have and use some of my stuff. I've always wanted a lathe to do simple things. I like to race (drag race) and I'm always working on my hotrod stuff and could use one from time to time. I sometimes need to machine a supercharger pulley to make it line up, sometimes need to make spacers for a torque converter, sometimes need to make a spacer or stand off to bolt something up.

I'm wanting something to mess with and try to learn on. but I don't want to spend money on something and then wish I had of bought something different (like wishing I had a quick change gear box) so thats where you guys come in.

I once used an old south bend at a school I worked on and made some solid cab mounts for my Ford Lightning pickup and I had fun making them. I had no idea what to do but i figured it out and they turned out good.


Ive looked on craigslist and ones I've found seem to be overpriced to me and or not what I want. This guy has a bunch of lathes and even if I don't buy one I can see some up close and possible learn something. I do know I need something single phase (or I can change motors if that isn't a big deal) I can't see me ever making anything long so I think a 9x24 or 10x24 seems perfect (so I think)

 

[Jamie V]

I have 150amp service (single phase) in my garage.

 

[sasquatch12]

One of the best pieces of advice has already been posted.

Find someone with experience that has used a lathe for some time, and take him with you.
Check bedways for wear along with the cross slide, headstock bearings, (don't go with babbitt,) They cannot run at higher speeds for turning small dia stuff. Bearings are the best.
And of course , what accessories go with the lathe? This is where you also need an experience guy to check this stuff out. (Oh, and check the morse tapers in both the headstock and tailstock, sometimes they are ruined from scoring if a taper has slipped.
Unless you really want to learn to cut threads, a quick change gearbox isn't nessesary to just turn items round. Make sure the gear teeth aren't broken/patched, and be sure "ALL" the change gears are with the lathe.
There is tons of info on different lathes on Tony's lathe site .Uk. google will pop that up for you for you. To check out what you are looking at.

 

[Jamie V]

I don't really know anyone that can go with me (kinda why I want one because I have no connections that can do stuff for me).

I don't even know what some of the terminology of this stuff. (man I'm a rookie!)

 

[zkling]

Can you post a picture of the machine? If you were closer I'd go with you, but you're quite a few hours away. Maybe, by any luck a local member would be willing to help you out a bit.

Also a larger (both size and weight) machines is nice not so much for capacity in work envelope, but in cutting capacity. The heavier the machine, typically the stiffer it will be built. The more it will dampen vibrations and the smoother it will cut with less chatter for a given depth of cut.

 

[Jamie V]

The only picture I took was of the plate with the info.

 

[Jamie V]

 

[Jamie V]

Thats the only picture I took. He was closing and I snapped the picture so I could go home and search it.

 

[Jamie V]

The lathe was a horizontal drive unit but all the pictures I saw didn't have the same drive unit. I found this picture and this is the drive unit on the 9" model A

 

[A_Pmech]

That sounds like a South Bend turret lathe to me.

You don't want a turret lathe. They're designed for making one piece over and over again and don't function well as general workshop machines.

 

[Jamie V]

looks like a 10k possibly. What exactly is a turret lathe (why are they designed to make the same thing over and over again?

 

[Diesel_Crawler]

You may find this 3 part series of help to you.

 

[sasquatch12]

Diesel Crawler has posted an excellent site for you, this Tubal Cain has LOTS of videos to watch, a former shop teacher, you can learn a lot from them, from Basics on up.
Very good info there.

 

[Jamie V]

watching now....

 

[Steinmetz]

"...Overall condition, particularly of the spindle and bed...". Yes.

Ask them if this was a production machine. If so, it's probably worn out.
Look for evidence on the compound (usually a corner) that the compound has been crashed into the chuck. One indication of abuse.
If possible, take a test indicator with you and check the runout on the spindle.

 

[zkling]

Had to whip out the catalog...

CL670Z --> Model A (meaning quick change gear box, power cross and longitudinal feed)
Bed lengh = 3.5'
Distance between centers = 22"
Crated weight = 505lbs
12 speed flat belt horizontal drive
6.25" swing over the cross slide
Hole through spindle 27/32"
48 pitches, 48 threads
Recommended 1/2hp motor
It cost $635 in 1966



So from the factory it did not have a turret, if they added one later or not, IDK.

 

[Jamie V]

now that I know what a turret is (thank you google) it does not have one. It has a tailstock with drill chuck, a 3 jaw chuck, and a tool post.

 

[A_Pmech]

Had to whip out the catalog....

What exactly is a turret lathe (why are they designed to make the same thing over and over again?

A turret lathe uses multiple tools set up on a turret to perform operations on the free end of a workpiece. Because most turning is done with preset tools from the turret, the carriage(s) do not generally have compound slides. The process is a completely different way of approaching the machining of a round object which does not lend itself to making one or two parts.

The video below is a cousin of the turret lathe, the screw machine, in operation. They share much in common, although the screw machine does everything automatically. Turret lathes were usually manual machines.

 

[ez-duzit]

OP--do your own due diligence and develop a better understanding before trying to buy a lathe. Shopping at a machinery dealer will be, by far, the most expensive way to buy. And you will most likely get very little tooling with it, if any at all.

Instead, try to find a private seller who is selling one with boxes of tooling.

 

[scaron]

yeah, imagine a turret lathe just has a carousel of tooling on it, that would be arranged in a pre-determined order of operations. the carousel would be put together by a "set-up man", a real machinist or an engineer or something. then, they'd set this thing up down at the factory and some guy would just sit in front of it all day changing stock and cranking thru the operations. they were generally used to make simple parts like fasteners. the turret lathe (and its cam programmed successor the screw machine) enabled radically lower costs of production because now you could just hire one real machinist to set everything up and a bunch of unskilled guys to run everything, rather than having to have a skilled machinist manning every machine to turn out even simple parts.

if you are looking for a great overview, try to find a copy of the old book, "manufacturing processes and materials for engineers" by doyle, morris, leach and schrader. my copy is from 1962 but i have no idea ultimately how many editions were printed... it will walk you through pretty much all of the typical machines and processes in a metal shop.

 

[Jamie V]

I ended up not going back today. A buddy of mine said his brother had a Sheldon lathe he might want to sell. I'm waiting to get some info on it??? I know its 3 phase and he has a 5hp phase converter with it. I came from a glass plant and supposedly it never turned metal only lucite.

Is a sheldon a good lathe? He also has a Lagun mill he might want to sell too....

 

[ez-duzit]

Do your own due diligence. You might start here.
http://www.lathes.co.uk/page2.html

 

[Jamie V]

Do your own due diligence. You might start here.
http://www.lathes.co.uk/page2.html

I found that site and I'm just waiting for some info to see what it is.

 

[ez-duzit]

Click on the links and you'll get to here.
http://www.lathes.co.uk/page21.html

 

[sasquatch12]

Sheldon made very good lathes according to many on machinist forums.
They are quite collectible, not sure if they have any shortcommings though.

 

[DenisG]

I'm going to go look at some lathes tomorrow at a local machinery place. I'm not real sure what I should be looking for or how much I should be paying.

I stopped yesterday and looked at an old south bend model A benchtop. It's a model CL 670Z. He wanted $650 for it.

After looking online I'm not sure if I should be looking for one that has the motor below the lathe in a cabinet instead of one like that where it's behind it.

I'm a rookie and I only know enough to get in trouble. I'm not sure what to look for besides basic mechanical stuff.

There's a Yahoo group dedicated to South Bend Lathes (SBL) with lots of documentation and discussions:
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/southbendlathe/

Other Yahoo groups exist for different makes and models.

 

[larry_g]

I ended up not going back today. A buddy of mine said his brother had a Sheldon lathe he might want to sell. I'm waiting to get some info on it??? I know its 3 phase and he has a 5hp phase converter with it. I came from a glass plant and supposedly it never turned metal only lucite.

Is a sheldon a good lathe? He also has a Lagun mill he might want to sell too....

I have two Sheldon lathes. That said Sheldon was in business a long time so they have a variety of lathes out there. Without a model number It's hard to say. Sheldon is a good name but it could be worn and or broken just like any other lathe. If it is an R model then highly desirable machine, if in good shape. Laugun is also a good name in Mills. They are a bit heaver than a comparable bridgeport and some will tell you its a better operating machine.

In reading your post of wanting to turn pulleys and spacers I would suggest that you consider a machine in the 12 to 15" range. Even though a lathe has a 10" swing you start pushing its limits well before you reach a 10" work piece. You also have to consider the swing above the carriage for longer pieces.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[Jamie V]

Here is the info I got.

The Lathe is a Sheldon WM-56-P
The Mill is a Lagun FTV-2

What can you guys tell me about them and there value?

 

[Jamie V]

 

[Jamie V]

 

[JoeFin]

Those are both pretty good machines

I'm kind of thinking this friend of a friend knows his machinery pretty well. What is he asking for the pair

 

[Jamie V]

Both machines and a 5hp phase converter for $1,600

 

[JoeFin]

Run don't walk

 

[Jamie V]

Run don't walk

anyone have any info for me on them?