need help with lug bolts

[simontudor]

So today i toldd my brother that i would paint his brake calipers red for him(he thinks read makes it go faster) and im trying to take off the back wheels. I have used a breaker bar and ratchet gun, they bolts just wont budge ive tried everything that i know of and i now need help anything to get the stupid bolts off will be appreciated

 

[volvo420coupe]

Keep trying, they will either break or break loose. What type of car is it, we just don't like situations without the critical details, what type of impact wrench and breaker bar are you using?

I just noticed your in Australia, so I might not have a clue as to what car your working on, but please still tell us.

 

[simontudor]

okay it is a '05 model Mistubishi Magna
i am using a TTI gun(totals tools brand) and the breaker bar was a sidchrome sliding t handle

 

[volvo420coupe]

Find a 24" breaker bar, and give it hell, and if you cant break a lug stud that way, get a cheater bar and then you should be able to do it.

I have no Idea what a mitsu-magna is but it doesn't sound like something with reverse lug threads on one side of the vehicle, and a torch might help, but only with steel wheels, and it will still make things look ugly.

 

[tw33k2514]

I would attack it with some PB blaster or whatever your favorite penetrate is, and then slip a cheater bar on the end of a breaker bar.

That, or a high torque impact wrench.

 

[tatra]

you mention bolts, if so, they should have a shoulder on them ........what you do is put an impact socket on them and givem a good solid bash with a good sized hammer.........common practice on vw ' s.........if studs and lug nuts, what has been mentioned before............

 

[nissan_crawler]

If they aren't loose or broken, you need a bigger breaker bar.

 

[simontudor]

okay ive decided tomorrow im going to go to the local tool shop and get the biggest breaker bar i can find. Hopefully that will get these stupid things off

 

[nissan_crawler]

okay ive decided tomorrow im going to go to the local tool shop and get the biggest breaker bar i can find. Hopefully that will get these stupid things off

Sounds good. When you're done, wrap it around the neck of the guy that put them on.

 

[nissan_crawler]

Find a 24" breaker bar, and give it hell, and if you cant break a lug stud that way, get a cheater bar and then you should be able to do it.

I have no Idea what a mitsu-magna is but it doesn't sound like something with reverse lug threads on one side of the vehicle, and a torch might help, but only with steel wheels, and it will still make things look ugly.

Only thing with that, is if you use heat (enough to do any good, at least), the studs are trashed anyway, so you might as well just switch to tightening them and snap them all off and save yourself the trouble of firing up the torch and weakening a wheel.

 

[GDA]

After you get your big breaker bar all set up with socket on the lug and start putting it under tension to remove it then give the socket end a good tap under with a big hammer. The shock of the hammer might help break the bolt the loose. Its just a poor man's impact at the end of the day.

 

[volvo420coupe]

I don't think we know yet exactly weather these are lug studs only or lug nuts/studs.

I have always considered the torch to be the LAST resort and have only had to use one once on a lugnut. And you are 100% correct nissan, anything you have to heat up that much that is holding a wheel on should be replaced anyway.

 

[bchee]

How would you guys spray penetrant if there are no exposed threads? Just a general question

 

[rsanter]

are they right hand or left hand threads???

bob

 

[ImportTuner]

okay it is a '05 model Mistubishi Magna
i am using a TTI gun(totals tools brand) and the breaker bar was a sidchrome sliding t handle

Wow, never heard of a Mitsubishi Magna, TTI impact gun or a sidchrome breaker bar .. Get a 24" or 36" breaker bar and you should have no problems ..

 

[Doug19]

Put a pipe on the end of your breaker bar and hit it with a smal sledge or stand on it and bounce on it.

 

[nissan_crawler]

How would you guys spray penetrant if there are no exposed threads? Just a general question

drill the lug nut. I've done it.

 

[kbs2244]

rsanter has been there before!
Check that you don't have left hand threads on one side of the car.

 

[redsky49]

First, go to Realoem.com or some other website and figure out if these are lug nuts or bolts, and verify the direction of the threads.

Use a penetrant. I like PB Blaster. Be patient, tap the nut several times with a hammer and let the penetrant do its job. Reapply two or three times over several hours.

This may not be the time for the big hammer approach. If they are seized you could snap off the wheel stud and have a real repair problem. A breaker bar with an extension could snap most any bolt.

Remember, patience!

 

[GeorgiaHybrid]

kbs,

The front ones must have come off because the OP stated he is trying to get the rear wheels broke loose. One side of the car might be left hand threads but not both sides at the rear.

 

[KraftwerkMk1Jetta]

Not to thread jack, but what is the purpose of left hand thread lug nuts? My fathers Mitsubishi dump truck has them on the left side of the truck, and I never understood what the purpose was?

 

[GeorgiaHybrid]

Older Mopars had left hand threads on their wheels. The first thing we normally did was knock them out and replace with right hand thread lugs. The purpose was to keep the nuts from loosening while driving and although this might be good in a theoretical world, in the real world it was not necessary. If you torque them correctly, they will not loosen up. All of the left hand threads that I have run across were installed on the left side of the vehicle.

 

[nissan_crawler]

some old jeeps and IH's also had left hand threads. Usually, if you can see the end of the stud, the lh ones have an "L" stamped on the end.

Yes, the studs might break, and one could try penetrant and repeated rattling with the impact and hope it comes off.

However, there's a 90% chance that they're junk anyway.

In this situation, they're usually either:

1. Overtorqued, which has potentially stretched the stud, and should be replaced.
or
2. Corroded, and they should be replaced.
or
3. Cross threaded, and they should be replaced.

Not only that, but in the time you spend trying to get it loose, on 90% of cars, I can snap it off, put the new stud in, and have it back together by the time you get it loose and find out it's shot anyway.

 

[KenS]

Older Mopars had left hand threads on their wheels...

some old jeeps and IH's also had left hand threads...

Add Alfa Romeos to the list-- hateful things.

 

[paramudduck]

I agree Alfa Romeos are hateful things in all so many ways.

 

[Moose-LandTran]

LDV vans (GB only) also run left handed threads on the left side.

 

[Danglerb]

Add Alfa Romeos to the list-- hateful things.

Bah, I gave first blood on my old 64 Spyder. Still one of the most fun cars I ever drove, and simple to work on.

 

[caper]

Restored a 58 oldsmobile,left hand thread on the left side as well.

 

[rgates]

some old jeeps and IH's also had left hand threads. Usually, if you can see the end of the stud, the lh ones have an "L" stamped on the end.

Yes, the studs might break, and one could try penetrant and repeated rattling with the impact and hope it comes off.

However, there's a 90% chance that they're junk anyway.

In this situation, they're usually either:

1. Overtorqued, which has potentially stretched the stud, and should be replaced.
or
2. Corroded, and they should be replaced.
or
3. Cross threaded, and they should be replaced.

Not only that, but in the time you spend trying to get it loose, on 90% of cars, I can snap it off, put the new stud in, and have it back together by the time you get it loose and find out it's shot anyway.

I agree with Nissan. Plus time is money!

What quality is the impact and air supply. I have taken nuts and bolts off many times by using a better impact when it was said they would not come off . First verify left or right hand threads. Second use a bigger-better impact gun and let her eat.

 

[kbs2244]

The OEMs seem to have gone away from left hand threads on the left side lugs with the now common use of air guns.
Before they became common it was possible that the nuts would not be tightened enough.
The idea was that rotation would keep them tight rather than loosen them.

(This is a real fear. On an all right hand car I once made the mistake of oiling the studs to ease spinning the nuts on. Even though I had snugged them up nice and tight, within 100 miles the left rear had 3 nuts rattling around inside the hub cap and the remaining 2 backed off 1/2 an inch.)

I thought some of the big rig trucks still used left hand threads on the left side.
I know the local NAPA still stocks left hand studs and nuts.

(BTW this is a real easy theft deterrent for you guys with fancy wheels and tires.
Not many thugs would think of spinning the wrench backwards if they were in a hurry to grab your stuff.)

 

[Diesel-Mech]

I thought some of the big rig trucks still used left hand threads on the left side.
I know the local NAPA still stocks left hand studs and nuts.

Left hand thread lugs are only found on trucks with BUDD wheels (lug centric), these have fallen out of favor for hub centric wheels that use all right hand thread.

 

[Skyline]

Add Alfa Romeos to the list-- hateful things.

Add early MG's to that list. But they only had one big nut, (or knock-off spinner,) to hold the wheel on.

To the OP...you might try using your feet instead of your hands. Set up the breaker bar, then jump on it with almost all your weight. The reason I say "almost" is that you must position yourself so you don't get injured if it breaks loose suddenly or slips off, or for that matter if it doesn't do anything. Many times I have used this technique with success, especially when the only tool on hand is one of those "S" shaped factory lug wrenches.

 

[usmc_noma]

pb blast for a day, then use a breaker bar. tighten and loosen however you want. if it breaks it, no big deal. just buy another bolt and lugnut for a few dollars and replace.

 

[ovilla]

If you really want to add a lot of weight to a breaker bar, go ahead and add a 3 foot section of pipe to it and make sure it's locked in with the end of the bar being as close to the garage floor as possible. Then use a floor jack to slowly lower the car, which will cause the breaker bar to either loosen or break the bolt. This is really just as a last resort though.

I'd soak the helll out of the bolt first for a few days. More than likely it's really rusted on or someone simply put it on with an impact gun and possibly stripped the threads in the process.

 

[Garage_Mahal]

The OEMs seem to have gone away from left hand threads on the left side lugs with the now common use of air guns.
Before they became common it was possible that the nuts would not be tightened enough.
The idea was that rotation would keep them tight rather than loosen them.

I never saw the logic in this for lug nuts. It works for hub-centric nuts, like the old racing knockoffs, but there is no way for any tightening or loosening torque from rotation to be applied at the lugs. The forces are all axial or bending at the bolt circle. I guess the old designers somehow convinced themselves that there was a benefit.

 

[Moose-LandTran]

What the hell do you guys deal with that needs that much torque? I have a Snap-on 36" ratchet and i've yet to need more. I've used it on everything from seized Audi wheel bolts to disassembling hubs and suspension on big commercial cement trucks and never needed more torque.

 

[ImportTuner]

What the hell do you guys deal with that needs that much torque? I have a Snap-on 36" ratchet and i've yet to need more. I've used it on everything from seized Audi wheel bolts to disassembling hubs and suspension on big commercial cement trucks and never needed more torque.

I have a 40" 3/4" drive breaker bar .. haven't found anything this bar can't remove yet ..

 

[GDA]

So did the OP ever get them off?

Moose and Import - those SO big 3/4 bb are the cats azz and makes 300 ft lb feel like childs play.

 

[Moose-LandTran]

Moose and Import - those SO big 3/4 bb are the cats azz and makes 300 ft lb feel like childs play.

I love it when you try a 24" breaker bar and it just flexes, then you grab the 36" and it only takes two fingers to break the nut/bolt loose!

 

[simontudor]

sucess! i used a cheater bar and after about 10minutes i got one of the bolts off