Need help with old Parker Vise

[markeric]

Hi all,

new to the forum here. I bid and won on a Parker #103 vise, I'm guessing late 20's model. The vise arrived with a broken front collar. I'm trying to decide between sending it back to the seller vs repairing the collar. The part looks to be cast but I've read that these vise' are ductile steel? Is this collar weldable, as in a stick welder? Am I out of luck, does the broken collar indicate excessive force applied at some point or could a blow (drop) during shipping have caused this? Its hard to tell from the original auction pics if it was broken prior to shipping, but the seller has good feedback and I have a hard time believing they intentionally sold it broken.
Any advise would be appreciated

 

[JeremyManning]

Here is the vise part swap thread
http://garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=88292&highlight=vise+swap

depending on what you paid for it would determine if you should return it or look for the part

 

[markeric]

thx Jeremy. I assume then that these collars cant be repaired...or at least cost effectively?

 

[Outlawmws]

I think it was shipped with the jaws open, and the shipping monkeys dropped it in usch a way to snap the retainer. Had it been shipped jaws closed it probably would have been fine.

There really isn't enough material there to make a satisfactory weld with Nirod... Brazing May work, but will of course be ugly. IMO your practical options are make one (Doable) or find a replacement (also doable, but more difficult unless you simply get lucky)

I'd discuss with the seller about the damage, and see what they will do either for return or partial refund to cover making a new collar.

 

[markeric]

outlaw,

it was shipped with jaws open and I can see how lateral force from a drop could snap the collar.

Anyone know what fits what in terms of cross model compatibility? how are they sized relative to the vise...is it screw size, jaw size, ect?

 

[Nick M]

Maybe chamfer out the break on the back side and braze there, then grind flat? Looks like a clean break and might go back together without seeing much of a crack on the front. I recently had to repair a small part like that on a Walker Turner cabinet saw, and brazed it.

 

[Outlawmws]

I'm 98% certain the 974 and 974-1/2 are fully interchangeable (I have both, but one is in a place that won't let me do more than make a couple of measurements...)

Whether those match out to yours I don't know... The reduced area on the main screw head that it engages in for mine measured about 1.41; it yours is close, it should work

 

[markeric]

thx Guys,

Now, I'f I decide to repair via brazing, is Nickel rod appropriate for cast metal? The 1929 ad I saw that features the Parker #103 , which is the model I have, describes the steel as Parkco?

 

[Davefr]

I'd hold the seller accountable for poor packaging. I see light duty bubble wrap and a single strength box. If I shipped a vise like that it would have been completely disassembled and double boxed with plenty of padding between boxes.

Do a credit card chargeback and then the seller will be on the hook to pick up the vise at his expense. (unlike Paypal)

This part will likely not survive if welded or brazed since the hole takes away almost all of the joint.

A piece like this could be fabricated if you want to spend the time.

Trying to find this piece will be a real long shot.

 

[markeric]

The vise is returnable, of course Im responsible for the shipping costs . I blame both the seller and crappy USPS...but the fact that shippers are crappy is no excuse for not having it packed appropriately I agree. I rarely do this, but I told the seller in no uncertain terms there would be negative feedback coming due to my trouble and expense in shipping it back. The seller has opened an insurance claim with *bay so I may be getting this for free in which case I dont have much to lose in trying to repair. I do own a lathe and a mill, but thats beside the point since I want the original retainer on there and not a fabricated piece

 

[Davefr]

The vise is returnable, of course Im responsible for the shipping costs .

If you file a dispute with Ebay/Paypal then you're responsible for return shipping.

However you can bypass Paypal and file a chargeback direct with your credit card company if that's the payment method you used. Most credit cards companies will issue you the credit and tell you that the item must be made available by pickup by the seller's courier. (ie that makes the return shipping the seller's responsibility)

Insurance doesn't (and shouldn't) cover poor packaging.

 

[markeric]

Dave,

thx for the advise...but I use Paypal direct withdraw from my checking account and only have a credit card on file as a backup so my paypal cash is immediately available.

Hopefully the seller will do the right thing

 

[Outlawmws]

thx Guys,

Now, I'f I decide to repair via brazing, is Nickel rod appropriate for cast metal? The 1929 ad I saw that features the Parker #103 , which is the model I have, describes the steel as Parkco?

Brazing is typically done with a brass alloy rod. another option is silver solder/silfoss (sp?) Nickle rod (NiRod) is normally arc welded.

 

[Davefr]

Dave,

thx for the advise...but I use Paypal direct withdraw from my checking account and only have a credit card on file as a backup so my paypal cash is immediately available.

Hopefully the seller will do the right thing

Good luck! What are you asking the seller to do??

Please keep us updated.

 

[jhelrey]

I bet it was broke before it was even boxed... Here is why I say that. The only way to break it is to back the screw out with something holding the jaws together. It can press hard, but it cannot separate. Usually the screw breaks but in your case, the collar. The screw which opens and closes is completely protected by the sliding part of the vise.

You should be able to pick one up for cheap... so just get some money back.

 

[markeric]

Ok,

the seller refunded the purchase amount and I kept the vise. So it cost me $25 for the shipping and I get to fix the collar or find the part or make a collar

 

[Outlawmws]

So to insure a replacement, use the broken one as a model to make a replacement and within say a week of the vise being fixed and in use, one will pop up!

 

[Packard V8]

Piece of cake. Measure the ID of your Parker retaining clamp and the OD of the area on the screw where it rides (mine is 1.25"). Find a "malleable iron wall washer" or a double thick heavy equipment flat washer the same ID. A few minutes with a hacksaw, drill press and welder and you're good to go. If you don't have access to a welder, even JB Weld would hold together the area where the collar has to be double thickness. No real stress on it.

jack vines

 

[markeric]

Ok,

So I conducted my first braze job. As suggested by others I ground a V out from the crack and used a bronze brazing rod. I used a MAP gas. After I got done I discovered some of the braze had gotten on the Parker lettering on the front. I had to meticulously grind ans sand the reshape the R and K in Parker. What a PITA. After the brazing I used JB Weld to fill in any minor pocs

 

[Davefr]

Looks like a nice save!! Just go easy opening the vise and it should hold up just fine. Don't even think of using the dynamic jaw to exert a pulling force!!

 

[Outlawmws]

Excellent looking job!

Basically ready for painting and installation!

 

[slip knot]

Damn nice repair. I would think that it should hold up ok. all the loading on it is opening the vise. just keep it freed up with lube and you should be good.

 

[markeric]

Hey Guys,

one more question. I saw another older Parker vise ...might have been on fleabay...that had a long spring that fit over the screw, It was an early one, pre 1930's. I'm guessing it is used to exert some tension on the dynamic jaw while opening.

Is this standard? Mine is missing. McMaster carries springs that I might be able to match up. Any isight form anyone with an older Parker?

thanks

 

[Outlawmws]

I just added washers to minimize backlash. I've never seen a spring on this type of machinist vise.

 

[markeric]

Outlaw,

I found the pic. Hope the guy doesnt mind me posting it here. Its a no. 22 swivel vise

 

[Outlawmws]

Well, that would certainly add preload. I'm not sure how well it would work for a really heavy vise jaw, or if it would work for full depth. It almost looks like a fix for a broken retainer

 

[markeric]

Project complete...Re: Need help with old Parker Vise

Ok,

So after fixing the collar, I stole some ideas from others on the forum and made some modifications to improve performance of the vise.

First thing I did was order a bronze bushing from McMasters to go in the dynamic jaw since the screw is allowed to wander around inside the front collar. I had to lightly file the dynamic jaw screw hole and was able to drive a 7/8 OD (3/4 ID) bushing in with a loose press fit

Once I got the bushing in I used my HF adjustable reamers to get a nice fit for the screw

 

[markeric]

The other thing I noticed is there was a decent amount of slop with the dynamic jaw where you could rock it up and down and side to side. Also, the bottom machined surface inside the static jaw didn;t have much contact area with the bottom of the dynamic jaw. The surface was not flat from front to back. It also was not flat across the vise in that the surface was concave left to right. I had to knock down a couple of high ridges with a my die grinder and then use a good flat file front to back. The idea was to get this surface flat side to side and front to back and then use shim stock to rebuild the bottom surface.

I realize this is a little overkill but it worked great. In my hand are a couple pics of the shim stock. It was formed as one piece to give maximum surface area and allow the nut to slide in the back once in place.

 

[markeric]

Here is the vise going together. I used Lucas Red n tacky grease. It has anti-seize properties in it. I thought about using Anti-seize but sometime the stuff gets dried out.

The vise works great. It feels new, hardly any slop, it opens and closes smooth as glass. The total backlash is 1/4 turn of the handle

 

[markeric]

Oh...the color is Rustoleum Hunter green. I either saw an ad that listed this year/model as green or someone posted the original color of their vise was green, can't remember. But anyway, there was a patch of this green color on the vise when I was striping it down, so I used it

 

[Outlawmws]

Excellent job Mark!

Had you thought of adding a shim to the stack on the screw to further minimize backlash? That is probably where most of it is.

 

[markeric]

outlaw,

The only shims I could find (at McMasters anyway) that were 1.5 inches OD (the stock size) and 3/4 ID were too thick at .048.

Now they do carry shims with the 3/4 ID, but with 1 1/8 OD that are really thin, starting at .002. They also have those peel away shims as well with a 1 1/8 OD that go from .002 up to .032, so you can dial in your shim thickness by peeling layers off. Maybe I'll try one of those

 

[Outlawmws]

How thick are the current shims? Maybe one of those out and the .048 in?

 

[markeric]

outlaw

No go. I tried taking the fatter stock washer out and putting 2 .048s in there, too tight. Regardless of combination I cant get a good fit with the shims I have.

I really need to get a variety pack of diff thicknesses including some really thin ones.

Next time Im ordering some stuff I'll throw some in my shopping cart

 

[Provincial]

If you can find a couple of washers that are 1 1/8 O.D. and 3/4 I.D. you can make shims by stacking shim stock cut bigger with a 3/4 inch hole on a bolt between the washers and contour the O.D. with a file. It is easier with a lathe, even a little hobby lathe. If you stack a bunch of shim stock clamped between thicker sheets (even hardwood) you can make the hole with a regular drill.

 

[Bull]

Good grief, we have some folks on here who do great work!