need help with shower head and shower handle

[punkabilly136]

I installed a delta all in one shower handle and the faucet and showered that go with the set. When I turn the handle all the way on, with the most water pressure, the shower head starts to dribble water out (somewhere between dribble and pour, a little stream)...any ideas?

 

[54FordPanel]

Take off the head completely and see what you get....do you get flow without the head?
Do you get a full 180-200 degrees of motion with the handle? There's a hot water limiter, you aren't hitting against that are you?
I think it's possible to put the valve body in upside down......it isn't upside down is it?

 

[punkabilly136]

I'm going to pull everything apart tomorrow and check. At first I thought it was a bad valve in the faucet

 

[boseefus402]

agree to test continually while disassembling. try it without the head, then take off the handle and check for the hot water limiter. Do you get next to no pressure when all the way hot? What about 50/50 or all the way cold?

You didnt happen to put unions in with your diverter did you? If it is backwards you'll wish you did.

 

[e-tek]

If it's a new unit it's not likely bad. Installation error would be my guess.

 

[e-tek]

you didnt happen to put unions in with your diverter did you? If it is backwards you'll wish you did.

great point.

 

[54FordPanel]

Also, if you used way too much solder, it's possible you have a big ball of solder clogging something up.

Or so I've heard.

 

[IDASHO]

What you are seeing is called "shower-rise"

From DeltaFaucet's site

Most likely, you are experiencing "shower-rise" where the water can’t get out of the spout as fast as it flows through the valve. This causes the water to back up and come out the showerhead. There can be one of several reasons for this:

1. The valve could be upside down
2. The length from the valve to the tub spout is outside of the 8" to 18" rule
3. There is more than one 90-degree angle
4. Something other than copper or galvanized pipe was used going to the spout
5. The most common reason is that there is something restricting the water flow to the spout, e.g. solder or something lodged in the pipe. Something is impeding the flow of water to the spout and causing it to back up and go out the showerhead. . If this is the cause of shower-rise it is possible to remove the blockage by removing the tub spout; then, feeding a plumber’s snake or a speedometer cable up through the tub drop. The act of feeding it causes it to twirl and loosen the blockage. Be sure to flush the valve before reinstalling the tub spout. Be sure to check the tub spout itself for blockage.


If none of these help, you may need to call a plumber. After the shower has been installed and the wall has been closed, there is little that can be done to remedy this situation yourself.

 

[punkabilly136]

I used shark bite fittings so no solder and I had to do a few 90

 

[rickairmedic]

Ok Kewl at least shark bites are easy enough to remove either with a sharkbite tool or a crescent wrench if you cant get your hands on the tool. With a crescent wrench tighten down the wrench until it is against the pipe and then press the plastic portion of the fitting into the fitting and pull out the pipe at the same time . You can reuse the sharkbites after you take them loose.

Rick

 

[punkabilly136]

I think it is the 90's coming down from the valve. A few people suggested putting a shut-off valve to that line and limiting the amount of pressure going into the shower. If that doesn't work then I'll pop a few tiles out and redo it I guess

 

[Frank The Plumber]

You need to check to make sure it is not upside down. The height on the wall of a shower control should be 42". In a bathtub application it should be roughly 12 to 16" above the tub top or space permitting, this can cause the problem. The height of a shower head or arm stub should be 76 to 78". If you have a short arm you will have a dribble. If you have a diverter spout you may opt to cap the outlet for the shower head on the valve, you then install a tee in the line that exits the wall to feed the spout, that tee'd line will now go to the shower head. This application forces the water to climb the extra distance that this tee insertion provides, it should solve the problem.

 

[punkabilly136]

one thing I am positive of is that it's not upside down

 

[Frank The Plumber]

I think it is the 90's coming down from the valve. A few people suggested putting a shut-off valve to that line and limiting the amount of pressure going into the shower. If that doesn't work then I'll pop a few tiles out and redo it I guess

This is not going to work, the restriction is only going to effect the flow, the pressure will remain the same, all you accomplish by this is giving yourself a piss poor shower flow. You need a shower ell or need to make your own. Go to the Grohe website and see if you can find a detail of how this is done. If you put 90's on the line going to the tub spout between the valve and the spout that is what you did wrong. You are creating pressure due to the flow restriction. What is your line pressure BTW?

 

[flat350]

Check my sig. Do you get full flow on cold and then it dies off as you turn it warmer or no flow thru the head at all?Before you go tearing walls apart,turn the water off to the tub/shower valve /bleed off any remaining pressure by opening the handle/ remove the handle/unscrew the ring which holds the cart. in/slowly pull the cart.out(be careful because there are little springs and rubber cups on the cart.,pay attention to how it comes out to ease reassembly).Unless delta has changed the cartridge they use it will be a 2 piece cart.,the front section is what turns the flow on and off,the rear section contains the balance spool.Look into the valve body to be sure that there is'nt any debris blocking the hot or cold ports as they enter the valve body/the cartridge can be disassembled to check the inside for debris(they come apart in the middle with a twisting motion,you can actually install just the front portion and it will run full flow to the head,but the handle will not control it at all,it's just wide open flow/full hot and cold with no operator control at all)/make sure everything is clean/shake the back portion of the cart. where the balance spool is to make sure it moves freely.If the spool is stuck to the cold side it will limit the amount of hot water that will flow and vise-versa,any debris in the valve or the piping to the valve will reduce flow/make sure the temp limit is allowing the handle to turn all the way to the hot position/if it has small screwdriver stops on the hot and cold inlets to the valve body make sure they are 100% open.I've installed cheap delta valves with 12'-15' of piping to the head and never had a problem,I think your going to find something restricting flow to the valve body or in the valve body not a problem betwen the valve and the head unless it's in the head itself.

 

[romantrans]

I have the answer for your showerhead problem , I found your post after googling delta shower problems sharkbite fittings. I'm not a licenced plumber however I am a Red Seal journeyman Diesel mechanic. I had the same problem as you Delta, Plumbers or Home Depot did'nt have an answer to this shower rise problem. I installed a new shower valve as per Delta specs I used Pex for the supply lines and to the Showerhead and as per Deltas specific instructions I used 1/2 copper pipe from the valve to the tub spigot I had 11" of drop from the valve to spigot ,as my soldering torch was at my shop 25 miles away and I did'nt feel like making the drive or buying another torch when I was at home depot the guy who was a retired plumber showed me these "fabulous" sharkbite fittings which I used on the 1/2 copper to the tub spigot. Those fitting are great however DO NOT use them in this application. Delta warns you to not use PEX to the tub spigot . The reason being you'll get shower rise. If you look inside the sharkbite fitting you have a plastic sleeve that slips inside your copper pipe and reduces the inside diameter of your pipe. Obviously it restricts the flow enough to cause shower rise. I pressure tested my unit everything was good and much to my dismay after having everything closed in with a $1700.00 wall I turned my shower on to have the same problem as you. If I crank the main valve down in my house to restrict the flow I don't get shower rise. So I'm going to put to shut off valves in the basement to the bathroom and restrict the flow to the showerhead that's the only choice I have as on the backside of the bathroom wall I have a newly renovated Kitchen and the only way to change the spigot supply would be to break into a wall and do a few thousand in damage.

 

[ddawg16]

Makes me glad that I'm doing all the plumbing on my 2-story addition with copper.

 

[Frank The Plumber]

In a tub and shower application when you restrict the flow to the tub spout you get a shower sprinkle. Any restriction, a couple of 90's, a pex connector anything. If you do not give the water an adequate area to rise.....shower sprinkle. Over pressurize the spout with 90 psi delivery, shower sprinkle. In a lot of cases the only way to really get a valve to behave itself is to install a valve specifically to control the shower or tub flow, a diverter valve.
There is a valve that can be put on the end of the shower elbow to close the water flow into the head, it can be a PIA to have this but it's a cheap way out of this odd situation.

 

[darkk]

Pex, small sized sleeves? The only thing I know for sure, if you install the module in upside down, it will not allow enough water thru the valve because of the scald safety.