Need help with uneven garage floor

[Homercules]

Hi all

I need some ideas. Here's the problem. I had my new shop floor poured in November and the concrete guys screwed up the level. It is mostly level until you get close to the big door then it is high by about 1.75". They said they would fix it in the Spring and so I built the shop as best as I could around the problem. Now they are here to fix it and I'm not sure what the best solution is. My ideas are 1) Grind the high spot down and then level with an epoxy coat. 2) Remove the concrete and repour (doubt they would go for that) 3) Pour new concrete over the old concrete (I would lose some height to my garage door though).

Update: I just talked to the concrete guy and he says that they will pour min 3" concrete over the old floor (with rebar), pay to raise the door and redo the apron. Does this seem like a good idea? Anything I should watch out for? I have been waiting so long to move my stuff into the shop but I just want it done right. I will have to wait awhile before I can epoxy coat it too.

 

[Donzi4me]

How can they be off by 1.75"??? I don't know if I'd want a pour over. Besides, doesn't that mean it will only be 1.25" thick near the door if the
back is 3"? I think I would get a few professional concrete contractors to look at it and see what they think. Get it fixed right so you don't have problems later.

 

[bmwpower]

How do they plan on attaching the old floor to the new floor? Seems to me they should be "attached" in some manner to avoid lifting or separating. I realize it's 3 inches+, but I would think it's still possible to shift or lift in spots.

Is the floor supposed to be sloped or flat?

 

[bwilder10h]

What they are intending to do (I assume) is drill holes in the existing floor, stake it with rebar and pour the new floor over it. If the garage has a footer, I would make them cut the pad out (leaving the sides) and repour the entire thing. I've seen this done in basements where they originally poured the floor in so fast, all the drainage pipes and barrier was washed away causing leaks.

I personally wouldn't want a pour over unless you like problems.

I also can't see how you could pour the pad almost two inches too high at the entry. Seems like it would be blatantly obvious

 

[Homercules]

How can they be off by 1.75"??? I don't know if I'd want a pour over. Besides, doesn't that mean it will only be 1.25" thick near the door if the
back is 3"? I think I would get a few professional concrete contractors to look at it and see what they think. Get it fixed right so you don't have problems later.

The maximum difference is 1.75" I think the high spot is 1.25" higher that what it is supposed to be. The 3" would be minimum OVER the high spot. That woud be a thick pad!

How do they plan on attaching the old floor to the new floor? Seems to me they should be "attached" in some manner to avoid lifting or separating. I realize it's 3 inches+, but I would think it's still possible to shift or lift in spots.

Is the floor supposed to be sloped or flat?

The floor is flat and the walls are up. I put a double base plate in which should hold it but I don't know what else they would do. Good question, I will ask them.

 

[Homercules]

...
I also can't see how you could pour the pad almost two inches too high at the entry. Seems like it would be blatantly obvious

I don't know why the finishers didn't say anything. Maybe they thought I would just live with it. The concrete boss came to look at it and he saw it right away. The finishers probably told him I might complain.

Would a good solution be to grind down the high spot and then use a good quality epoxy filler to level it out?

 

[bmwpower]

Grinding it down might be the best bet. You will have exposed agregate if you grind this much though, so plan on having a different finish on this part of the floor. You should be able to patch it with some epoxy patch compound, then finish (epoxy, etc) the whole floor.

 

[Homercules]

Thanks! This would be my prefered option too. Is there a specific product that will fill up to 3/4"?

I'll have to do some research.

 

[bmwpower]

Thanks! This would be my prefered option too. Is there a specific product that will fill up to 3/4"?

I'll have to do some research.

How big of an area is it?

Hopefully, the grinder will grind down the aggregate and not pull it out of the slab.

I would try this:

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2077

I'm pretty sure you can use it for holes up to 3/4" deep, you'll just need to do it in layers. I used it for 1/2" holes in my concrete - worked fine..

 

[Homercules]

Here's my update:

I talked to several concrete specialists and companies that repair and apply epoxy products and the general consensus is to pour a new layer of concrete. Even though they won't get any business from me, that is what they all advise.

There are pros & cons with each method but it is going to be more money and some risk with the epoxy filler. The pour over has it's negatives such as reducing my entrance height but on the positive side I will get a new extended apron and a stronger pad (though they won't garantee against cracking).

Sigh. I will post back on success or failure.

 

[[email protected]]

i got the same problem but my contracters won't get back to me. so i talked to other contracts and they say either pour a whole new floor or grind it down. so i this went out and rented and surface grinder for cement thats the way i'm going to go i will let you know how it goes

 

[[email protected]]

my floor was off by 1"1/2 on one corner

 

[Diverbill45]

I hate to say this, but if they poured the floor and it was wrong, I'd tell the contractor to take it out and repour the whole thing.

Look at it this way, you paid the contractor to pour the floor and do the job right and that's what you expected. They screwed it up, so it's their problem and expense to make it right, not come in and do a patch job. This is one of the reasons why contractors pay lots of money for insurance, just incase there's a screw up and the job has to be reworked.

I was a concrete contractor years ago and if this had happened, on a job I had bid, I would have redone the whole thing and then the employees that did the job the first time would have been invited to a office conference and would have been informed not to let it happen again, in no uncertain terms.

If you let them talk you into just patching it you're going to wind up not being satified and it's going to present problems down the road. Sooner or later that thin repoured slab is going to start cracking and as time goes by it'll just keep getting worse.

When my shop was built the finishers came in and poured the floor, but who ever was using the transit shop the grade wrong (backwards) and instead of the floor being graded towards the front of the shop, it was graded to the back. Whenever it would rain and I had the doors open, there was trails of water running all the way across the floor. I called the contractor and told him to come over and we needed to talk. He came over and I set up a transit and we reshot the grade. It had the right grade (1/8" per foot) but just backwards. I asked him how he was going to fix the problem, and he said he'd bring in a crew and take out the whole 24' x 36' slab and redo it right. The slab was 6" thick so he had to eat the price of 9-1/2 yards of concrete, new rebar, plus the labor to refinish it, but he said that was only the right thing to do.

When the job was redone it turned out great and I told him that I would send work his way when asked, just as long as he didn't let the same guy operate the transit that had done my slab the frist time. He told me that I could be sure this wouldn't happen again.

Over the past 15 years I've recommended this contractor to quite a few people and this problem has never happened again. Problems do arise and if the contractor does take care of them in a professional way, then there's no problem with me recommending them to other people.

It's your shop, so why should expect anything less than a job done right the first time?

 

[[email protected]]

yea what you going to do when the contractor doesn't get back to you or doesn't show up to look at his mess. i tried every thing so i went out and rented a cement grinder resurfacer did a great job now i gotta take contractor to small cliams court.

 

[Diverbill45]

If the contractor doesn't get back to you, you should file a claim with the Better Business Bureau and the state builders Board. If these orgs. gets enough complaints this contractor will get his license pulled. I've seen this happen a few times.

Since you've already done the repair yourself, by grinding down the area, I do hope that when the floor was first poured they had added rebar. If not, what might happen, is the area you ground down will be weaker than the rest of the slab and if you run heavy objects across that thin area it will, sooner or later, begin to crack out on you.

When I did my shop, even though the slab was 6 " thick, I laid out 1/2" rebar on 12" centers. Adding rebar like this will almost double the strength of the concrete. I can't remember the exact formula, but it does make a big difference in adding to the strength of the slab. I never expect to move real heavy objects across the slab, but it's just real cheap insurance against the possibility of having the slab crack out.

I've had to take a few people and contractors to small claims court, in the past, and it's wasn't something I ever looked forward to doing. All I can say is, to really make your case, take plenty of pictures of the problem both before and after the repairs, keep all receipts of equipment rented and also the amount of time spent making the repairs. What would really help is to get some signed statements from a couple of other contractors, as to how the slab should have been done in the first place and what the repairs you had to make might cause to the slab, as to making it weaker in that area. The more information and pictures you can provide to the court will strengthen your case and make it harder for the contractor to deny the shoddy job he did. I've been down this road before and believe me pictures and information will be your best assets for a strong case.

If you win the case, which I'm sure you will, my recommendation, as to solving this problem, would be to ask the court to grant that another contractor come in and remove and repour the whole slab, with this contractors insurance company footing the bill. This way you'll get the job done right and there won't be a possibility for future problems with cracking, due to a weak area. When insurance companies have to start paying out for shoddy workmanship, they aren't real nice to the contractor they insure.

I have 2 sons that are building contractors and whenever they have problems with repairing shoddy work that any of the subs that contract to them do, all they have to say to the sub is, if it isn't fixed right, the next phone call they'll make is to the subs insurance company about filing a claim, and it's surprising how fast the work is repaired.

When I was contracting I always tried to make sure I did the best job I could and make the customer as pleased as possible, even though with some people, it's hard to do. When I did a job I looked at it from a couple of different view points. First, if I had been the customer, would I've been satisfied and paid for the job I received from this contractor and secondly and most importantly, the customer might not always remember the contractor that did a good job, but I can surely bet you that he'll never forget the contractor that did a s****y job. This is the same way my sons run their businesses and they have been quite successful.

I do hope you can resolve the problem you are having with this slab and the contractor, to your satisfaction. I just wanted to point out a few things you can do to build your case and should help you out.

 

[Cuda]

I hate the thought of pouring a new floor on top of the existing one. Unless they drill a bunch of holes (and I mean a whole bunch of holes) all the way through the existing floor into the gravel below it, you are not going to have an easy time getting rid of the water in the new concrete. The water has to go somewhere and if not it's going to raise to the top when trying to finish it. That almost always results in a poor quality finish that will start to scald on you.
My first choice (demand in fact) would be to rip it all out and do it over again. A big pain I know, and your contractor will no doubt resist, but with what you have described I'd say you have a good case.
Grinding would be my second choice I guess, although I worry how much the strength would be comprimised by doing so. Especially in a high and heavy traffic area as you have described.
Hope you get it resolved.

 

[markvfr]

Hi all, I'm having a similar problem with my newly poured 24x33 pad and don't want to start another thread, so I'll tag onto this one.

Here is my situation. I'm in Calgary, Canada where all buildings need to have frost walls but most garages here are built as Alaskan Floating Slab ie no footings. The guys formed the pad last week but then it rained for a solid five days and it finally cleared up on friday. So, the crew shows up and at 7am the pour starts. I left for work but as I was leaving work, I heard some cursing and they took some of my scrap lumber to re-enforce the forms as apparently they weren't holding the concrete due to the rain induced soft ground.

I got home on friday and the pour looked decent but noticed it wasn't very flat or sloped towards the backlane like it should. So, I waited 'til today to do the water test and see where the low areas are and where the true slope is. Well, there is a nice half inch two foot wide trench running the full width of the garage with two prominent low points that pooled all the water. Virtually no water got to the apron as I hosed it from the back of the garage. I find this unacceptable for a newly poured garage that I will pay over $7000 for. On top of that, the forms didn't hold and the concrete anyway and it bowed out terribly in the most visible spot.

Whats more frustrating is, I put down $1000 worth of hard insulation and ran infloor heating lines in the pad so the option of drilling into the current pad and pouring overtop really isn't an option.

So, since I haven't paid for the job yet, should I request a tear out and re-pour? Will they rip out the lines and insulation as well? I guess I'm looking for confirmation of my situation and options and to make sure I'm not over reacting.

Thanks in advance.

Mark

 

[Will S.]

Mark, you should probably start a new thread about this, but anyways, I see few options, due to the in-floor pex piping for a heating system.

First off, are the heating lines pressurized, with a pressure gauge showing the pressure hasn't changed? That would be me first concern. The only options I see, if the heat lines are ok, is to still tear it all out, and start over from scratch. Of course that means new pex pipe and insulation, as well.

Or, the other is to get self-leveling concrete repair product, like Durall self-leveling concrete repair, and then also have the bowed edge cut off with a concrete saw.

Maybe someone here will have some better ideas.

 

[markvfr]

Mark, you should probably start a new thread about this, but anyways, I see few options, due to the in-floor pex piping for a heating system.

First off, are the heating lines pressurized, with a pressure gauge showing the pressure hasn't changed? That would be me first concern. The only options I see, if the heat lines are ok, is to still tear it all out, and start over from scratch. Of course that means new pex pipe and insulation, as well.

Or, the other is to get self-leveling concrete repair product, like Durall self-leveling concrete repair, and then also have the bowed edge cut off with a concrete saw.

Maybe someone here will have some better ideas.

Thanks Will. I started a new thread.

Please do not reply to my problem on this thread. Thanks.