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Need help with Variance...

mbkowns

Member
Joined
Apr 9, 2011
Messages
7
I need a variance for my garage project. The purple section meets the building code while the dark grey section does not. My garage will face an alleyway. I am the corner lot to this alley. All the neighbors have large garages line mine. This Garage is located in Southern California.

Need help to show a hardship of why I need the extra 350 sq footage.

Any creative minds out there? :rocker:


Background info
  • Purple meets the maximum sq foot area of 750.
  • The full box meets all the required set backs(purple and dark grey).
  • 35% of the everything to the left of the dotted line can be built on. Purple to the left of this line is that 35%.


Purple area = 750 sq
Dark grey area = 350 sq



2011-04-09_193416.jpg


Here is a picture in 3D of the building. Kept the grey in there to show what I want to add with this variance.

2011-04-09_195412.jpg
 
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ddawg16

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 11, 2008
Messages
21,005
Location
S. California
If I understand your problem.....your trying to use more than 50% of the rear of your setback....just how big is your lot?

I would be real carefull 'inventing' a hardship to show why you need it. Is this county or city?

County....not so hard....city....in some cases, almost impossible.
 

madstat

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 22, 2011
Messages
98
Location
Southeast Michigan
I apologize if what I suggest is already known to you but I thought I would offer up what I have found going through my variance application.

From what I can gather, no matter what jurisdiction you reside in, successfully gaining a variance takes a lot of preparation, organization and most of all luck. Here are my tips which may improve your odds.

1. Research appeals that were similar to yours: It is standard practice that city zoning board appeals have records (minutes) of appeals hearings going back at least a few decades. If they are not available online try to track them down in hard copy at read through them meticulously. The transcripts of the appeals the process will give you a good idea of what the ZBA will likely grant and what they will not and most importantly what the successful appeal had that the unsuccessful appeal didn't. This way you will be well prepared for what kinds of questions they will ask and level of evidence you will be required to provide.

2. Get your neighbors on your side: The more of your neighbors that are in support of your project the better, if you can get a letter from most of them saying they don't have any problems with your building plan then that is good. Even better if you can find one or two to attend your appeal meeting and have them be enthusiastic or provide motivation as to why your plans are beneficial to the neighborhood would be a real boost. The fact that many of your neighbors garages are encroaching on what seems to be the standard setback will help.

3. Find any shred of evidence to show that your building hardships are unique or uncharacteristic for your neighborhood. After doing my research I found that simply being on a corner lot (which usually presents additional challenges when it comes to setbacks) is not enough. However if you can show that your lot is unusual compared to other corner lots than that my help.

Lastly and most importantly, don't get your hopes up. If in actuality, the hardships or practical difficulties associated with your not meeting the setbacks are self-imposed, mere inconvenience, or inability to obtain a higher financial return then it is likely you will not get approved, in which case don't linger on the let down. This forum is a great resource for ideas on how making due with limited space.

last question, are you planning on staying where you are for good? A variance is one of those things I would only go for if I knew that this was the place I wanted to be.

best of luck.
 
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mbkowns

Member
Joined
Apr 9, 2011
Messages
7
I am in the city historical district. I want to improve years of damage to this house with a good little shop and space for my cars.

50 x 155. I am allowed to use 35% of the rear of the property 25 feet from the property line. The set back for an accessory structure is 5 feet from the property line. So the 35% is an additional limitation and the one I am trying to tackle.

So in that 25 foot area with the 35% rule here is what I am allowed to do.

50 x 25 = 1250

35% of that is 437 sqft

I want an additional 260sqft in that area and total of 300 for everything behind the 25 foot line.


This would bring me to 55% of built area.


In my variance I am asking for 20% more buildable area and an additional 40 sqft beyond that.
 

ddawg16

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 11, 2008
Messages
21,005
Location
S. California
If it's the Historical part of Pasadena.....I think your wasting your time...

BTW...based on what you just discribed, your pic above seems out of scale.
 

Colonial Cobra

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 21, 2007
Messages
459
Location
Yorktown, VA
Good luck with it. Around here you must proove a pardship for a viariance. Something like 6 kids in a two bedroom house. Family of 6 with one bath. A Garage is out of the question. I was trying to get 2 feet on a 15 foot setback and was denied.
 

formek

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 1, 2011
Messages
519
Location
Wylie, TX
I apologize if what I suggest is already known to you but I thought I would offer up what I have found going through my variance application.

From what I can gather, no matter what jurisdiction you reside in, successfully gaining a variance takes a lot of preparation, organization and most of all luck. Here are my tips which may improve your odds.

1. Research appeals that were similar to yours: It is standard practice that city zoning board appeals have records (minutes) of appeals hearings going back at least a few decades. If they are not available online try to track them down in hard copy at read through them meticulously. The transcripts of the appeals the process will give you a good idea of what the ZBA will likely grant and what they will not and most importantly what the successful appeal had that the unsuccessful appeal didn't. This way you will be well prepared for what kinds of questions they will ask and level of evidence you will be required to provide.

2. Get your neighbors on your side: The more of your neighbors that are in support of your project the better, if you can get a letter from most of them saying they don't have any problems with your building plan then that is good. Even better if you can find one or two to attend your appeal meeting and have them be enthusiastic or provide motivation as to why your plans are beneficial to the neighborhood would be a real boost. The fact that many of your neighbors garages are encroaching on what seems to be the standard setback will help.

3. Find any shred of evidence to show that your building hardships are unique or uncharacteristic for your neighborhood. After doing my research I found that simply being on a corner lot (which usually presents additional challenges when it comes to setbacks) is not enough. However if you can show that your lot is unusual compared to other corner lots than that my help.

Lastly and most importantly, don't get your hopes up. If in actuality, the hardships or practical difficulties associated with your not meeting the setbacks are self-imposed, mere inconvenience, or inability to obtain a higher financial return then it is likely you will not get approved, in which case don't linger on the let down. This forum is a great resource for ideas on how making due with limited space.

last question, are you planning on staying where you are for good? A variance is one of those things I would only go for if I knew that this was the place I wanted to be.

best of luck.

Well said Sounds right
 

formek

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 1, 2011
Messages
519
Location
Wylie, TX
When I needed a variance they never said that it had to be a hard ship. I drove my neighborhood Taking photos of every property with a large Building at the same time jotting down the address. I then went home and got on line and printed the tax rolls of everyone who had a building the same size I wanted or larger than I was asking for. I put that with a letter and the drawings they requested.

I was going to post the letter but cant find it I might be on work Computer

Good luck
 

cranejon

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 7, 2006
Messages
66
In Michigan the test for a dimensional variance is practical difficulty, not hardship. The difference being that a practical difficulty can be self created. That exception relates only to dimensional variances.

An effective tool for approaching the Board of Zoning Appeals is a good aerial photograph that shows the other neighborhood structures and their setback situations. Also the fact that the lot is an older plat and was designed before the ordinace was enacted could also help.
 

JBurgess

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 1, 2008
Messages
372
Location
Arizona
You might propose to build a two story to get the area you need, then ask for the variance because a single story would look better.

Also the location of the variance you are asking for might make a difference. In this example of a "U" shaped building the exterior footprint would be same with or without the variance.

variancelocation.jpg
 

ForceFed70

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 27, 2010
Messages
3,441
Location
BC, Canada
What's the "backroom" shown in your drawing? Can it be moved to move the garage away from the alley? Or join the 2 structures?

Unless there is a precedent set, or you have some other valid arguement I don't think you should bother with the variance. It's a lot of time, money, and work to get a variance. Most end up being denied and at the end you've wasted 6 months of your time.
 

toddmcdong

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 10, 2010
Messages
45
Location
Austin, TX
My first suggestion would be to move the building closer to the street, but that is probably a street side yard setback. Madstat is exactly on the money as far as researching and gaining support from the neighborhood. You might check with the code reviewers and see if a 20% increase in building coverage is even within their ability to grant.

A couple other ideas:
- can you leave the grey area open (carport)?
- do you have any large trees that you can call a hardship?

If your city is anything like Austin, a variance is a difficult thing to come by.
 
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ct71rr

Well-known member
Joined
May 19, 2009
Messages
478
Location
Massachusetts
...From what I can gather, no matter what jurisdiction you reside in, successfully gaining a variance takes a lot of preparation, organization and most of all luck. Here are my tips which may improve your odds.

1. Research appeals that were similar to yours: It is standard practice that city zoning board appeals have records (minutes) of appeals hearings going back at least a few decades. If they are not available online try to track them down in hard copy at read through them meticulously. The transcripts of the appeals the process will give you a good idea of what the ZBA will likely grant and what they will not and most importantly what the successful appeal had that the unsuccessful appeal didn't. This way you will be well prepared for what kinds of questions they will ask and level of evidence you will be required to provide.

2. Get your neighbors on your side: The more of your neighbors that are in support of your project the better, if you can get a letter from most of them saying they don't have any problems with your building plan then that is good. Even better if you can find one or two to attend your appeal meeting and have them be enthusiastic or provide motivation as to why your plans are beneficial to the neighborhood would be a real boost. The fact that many of your neighbors garages are encroaching on what seems to be the standard setback will help...Lastly and most importantly, don't get your hopes up. If in actuality, the hardships or practical difficulties associated with your not meeting the setbacks are self-imposed, mere inconvenience, or inability to obtain a higher financial return then it is likely you will not get approved,...

I agree with madstat. Having just gone through this with my town, which is notorious for not granting variances. I would go speak with your neighbors and see if they will support what you want to do. I wouldn't get your hopes up though. In the end, they made me cut off a corner of my foundation.
 

Strouty

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 21, 2010
Messages
38,215
Location
Southern Maine
I would look at the U shaped building, Maybe you could make a carport style cover that is "temporary" that way you would have a cover, but not a building. Hardship Variance is usually pretty difficult. If it was an issue of setbacks, you could have gotten an easement, but the way you show it, may be difficult. Keep us updated.
 
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mbkowns

Member
Joined
Apr 9, 2011
Messages
7
Wow you guys rock some really sound advice in here!:bowdown:

Okay here is beta1 of the variance check it out.

Here is another drawing of the plan Dark purple is the area I need a variance and light purple is allowable by the building code.

2011-04-10_213149.jpg


2011-04-10_214840.jpg


2011-04-10_213550.jpg


Yes due to the following reasons:
1. New city street sweeping citations that are issued when vehicles are parked in front of my house.
2. City trees continually drop branches that fall on all three of my vehicles. One caused severe damaged with which I resisted filing a city claim and paid out of pocket. I was notified in the middle of the night of this occurrence by the ****** Police Department.
3. Two of my car windows have been smashed from foreign objects and or vandalism while parking on **** Street and **** street locations in front of my house. The security aspect of having all three vehicles garaged at all times is a DIRE concern of mine.
4. No covered parking on property purchased from past foreclosure.
5. Limited parking from recreational usage of the **** Street for access to Mt Rubidoux. **** Street has more traffic, and is where more of the branches from city trees and damage to my vehicles from foreign objects or vandalism have occurred. This is another DIRE security concern of mine.

2011-04-10_213647.jpg


Yes due to the following circumstances:
1. City zoning ordinance permits building garage marked by red arrow below. This allows construction of the square footage I am requesting.
2. Due to the two foot grade elevation difference, between ***** Street and existing house, it is impractical to place an attached garage in the location shown by the red arrow below. The driveway slope will be too steep and therefore unnecessary damage to vehicles will incur when pulling in and out.
3. Secondly due to the shape of the proposed structure below it would also be difficult to pull in and out of the 14 foot wide garage door. The shape would also cause difficulty in maneuvering to allow for three cars.

2011-04-10_213734.jpg



Solution:
  • Allow requested variance in dark purple area below.
  • Dark purple area next to green arrow is the requested variance.
  • The proposed garage square footage marked by the problem area in red will still be achieved in the new proposed garage square footage marked by the solution area in green.

2011-04-10_213843.jpg




2011-04-10_213915.jpg


No due to the following reasons:
1. Current alleyway is covered with trash and overgrowth.
2. Siding on newly constructed garage will model current house.
3. Roof will be incorporated with a hip roof that matches the house.
 Neighbors all agree, of the positive enrichment to the area.


2011-04-10_213949.jpg




2011-04-10_214012.jpg



No due to improving the esthetic view of the garaged that matches the existing properties siding style and hipped roof pattern.
Additionally while reviewing the district & buildings website it was found that “Sidewalks characterize the area and driveway cuts are minimal, tending to be narrow with historic curb returns.” (1) From this it is easy to understand why it is necessary to build Garages that “are predominately detached and located to the rear of the properties, with most accessed via unpaved alleys.” (1)
1. http://olmsted.mycity.gov/historic/dist_mtp.aspx?dky=39
By allowing this variance to build a garage in the rear portion of the property with alley access, instead of an attached garage with drive access from **** Street pictured below, I am more in compliance with the direction of the General Plan.

2011-04-10_214050.jpg
 
Last edited:

ddawg16

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 11, 2008
Messages
21,005
Location
S. California
Mt Rubidoux? Riverside?

I understand your problem and agree with your solution.....

Other guys chime in here.........but I'm thinking that maybe a personal meeting with a city council member first to lay out your plan might be in order. A lot of times when you have mutiple issues as you noted, explaining them to at least one person can do a lot to bring down some of the barriers.....

No...most of them are not on the take....but phrases such as "Quality of Life" have a lot of meaning to a city councile.
 

bczygan

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 4, 2009
Messages
22,002
Location
DETROIT! Arsenal of Scrappers
Some zoning departments have a working meeting where applicants can bring a proposed project and work with them for solutions. A good way to gauge if it will fly before going to the formal meeting process.
 

toddmcdong

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 10, 2010
Messages
45
Location
Austin, TX
Yes due to the following reasons:
1. New city street sweeping citations that are issued when vehicles are parked in front of my house.
2. City trees continually drop branches that fall on all three of my vehicles. One caused severe damaged with which I resisted filing a city claim and paid out of pocket. I was notified in the middle of the night of this occurrence by the ****** Police Department.
3. Two of my car windows have been smashed from foreign objects and or vandalism while parking on **** Street and **** street locations in front of my house. The security aspect of having all three vehicles garaged at all times is a DIRE concern of mine.
4. No covered parking on property purchased from past foreclosure.
5. Limited parking from recreational usage of the **** Street for access to Mt Rubidoux. **** Street has more traffic, and is where more of the branches from city trees and damage to my vehicles from foreign objects or vandalism have occurred. This is another DIRE security concern of mine.

Locally, two (2) off-street parking spots are required for each residence. An additional off-street parking spot is required for a detached living unit (granny flat). You might look into your zoning and see if your local codes have similar requirements and you can use them as part of your argument. It sounds like parking on the street is an inconvenience in your neighborhood.
 
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mbkowns

Member
Joined
Apr 9, 2011
Messages
7
You guys are great! Missed todays dealine but will be submitting in two weeks.
 

Frank The Plumber

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Joined
Feb 19, 2011
Messages
2,644
Location
Chicago.
Most city garages are kept to 750 Sq ft or less because much larger equates to operating a business from them. I hope you were good to your neighbors.
 
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mbkowns

Member
Joined
Apr 9, 2011
Messages
7
The size noted in my last posts was approved. My plans are in plan check now, I am expecting to break ground in a few weeks.
 
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