Need help with vintage carpenter's box

[Heavy Rusted Stuff]

First post from an avid caretaker of family heirlooms from times gone by. I am looking for some information on my Grandfather’s old carpenter’s toolbox. He was a farmer all his life and did a little bit of everything as farmers of that era did. He passed back in 1985 at the age of 72. This box came to me from my father around 2015 with miscellaneous items inside, none of which reassembled an organized tool set. Within the family there is no recollection of when the box came into the family – only that it was always in the tool shed…

I removed the trim around the top and bottom and sanded some of the surfaces before I started taking pictures. Clearly a rookie mistake. Here are a few pictures that may help the group place a date on its original construction. I could not find any pencil or measurement markings anywhere.

Lastly, any web links or references for restoration of this type box would be greatly appreciated.

Notes:
Length 35 ½ x Width 19 ½ x Height 17 ½ (planks 1” thick)
Hinges appear to be retrofitted long ago
Widest plank is 14” (found on all sides and bottom)
Most nails are square and rectangular with heads
Originally had keyed locking mechanism (replaced with a hasp)
Dovetails have large flat blade screws in the middle (added for reinforcement?)
Appears to have cleats for removable trays (did not come with box)

Kind regards,
Russ

 

[Heavy Rusted Stuff]

Figured I would ask one more time for any feedback on how old this may be or any other helpful information. If I can get more traction in another place please let me know. Thanks in advance.
Russ

 

[DadsTools]

It's a tough call. Back in the day, it was quite customary for guys to make their own tool boxes. This looks like that to me. Some were very skillfully made. This one has clearly survived the test of time. Typically, a factory-made box will have a sense of refinement and some design feature to make it distinct so that it would have more appeal than a home-made box. They would have also been branded in some way, even if it was just a decal.

With such boxes having no brand ID, you have to look at the hardware. Unfortunately, it sounds like some of that is no longer original. If the handles on the ends are original, they may provide a clue to its age--a closeup of these might help (IF they're original!). Then it's a matter of searching through old hardware catalogs to find a match. From what I can see, the handles do look old, and may be the best clue for age. The square-cut nails in themselves may not be as good a clue, since machine-cut nails have been around for a long time (they don't appear to be hand forged).

 

[Shiftless]

Great family heirloom! It will make a fitting place to store some of the rest of the stuff you say you are caretaker of.

IMO, the square nails date that box to the 1800’s
Early or late? I’m no expert. I defer to others here on GJ.

 

[ZRX61]

If it were mine I wouldn't worry too much about sanding on it. In fact I'd probably sand all of it lightly & then go the BLO route.... and I'd use some nice brass wood screws to reattach the trim etc. I might be tempted to use new wood for the trim..


I have *most* of my grandfathers WWI foot locker. About 25 years ago my step dad shipped it to the US after he'd modified it. Gonna have to restore it some day.

 

[DadsTools]

I'd still like to see a close up of the handles.

 

[DadsTools]

Figured I would ask one more time for any feedback on how old this may be or any other helpful information. If I can get more traction in another place please let me know. Thanks in advance.
Russ

Wouldn't hurt to post this in a few traditional woodworkers' forums out there. GJ leans a bit more toward the mechanics end. If you do, let us know what you find!

 

[Heavy Rusted Stuff]

Thanks for the feedback. Here are the close ups of the handles. One side was intact and the other was loose when I received the box. They hang in the down position and when lifted up the bends in the handles are leveraged against the mounting plate to prevent pinching the hand. The wooden grip / handle is attached by large "cotter pins" for lack of a better term. You can see from the inside pictures where the flanges are spread out to keep the handle from pulling out.

 

[DadsTools]

Thanks for the feedback. Here are the close ups of the handles. One side was intact and the other was loose when I received the box. They hang in the down position and when lifted up the bends in the handles are leveraged against the mounting plate to prevent pinching the hand. The wooden grip / handle is attached by large "cotter pins" for lack of a better term. You can see from the inside pictures where the flanges are spread out to keep the handle from pulling out.

Thanks for the pics. I would say with almost certainty that those handles are hand forged. If they were machine-bent, they would not only be more uniform but it's likely an mfr would have been able to use a one-piece wood grip to save time and money--the hand forging would have heated the metal up too much, requiring the 2-piece 'sandwich' to be installed later. Those grips have honest wear too!. The ring posts also appear from this end to be hand-forged as well. NOW the square cut nails fall into context, especially since you can see the rectangular plate holes where the original nails went, although it appears too that some of those holes were rounded out for later repairs with screws.

While it's possible that someone might have hand-forged their own handle and used cut nails in the 20th century, I think it's less probable. There's not sufficient design elements in the box to indicate anyone was trying to make an heirloom or masterpiece--it looks like someone was just trying to make a strong functional chest. If that were the case, they would have likely chosen off-the-shelf hardware just to get it done (real quality mfd hardware was certainly available in the early 20th century). However, being a farmer, he could have easily forged these in the 20th century along with having cut nails (maybe even salvaged). Were it pre-Civil War, I'd expect they'd had hand-forged the nails too (why not, if you're going to do the handles like that!), but these look machine cut.

Another detail that caught my eye was the extreme wear inside the grips. This was carried a lot, perhaps even dragged a lot on and off a bed, either wagon or early truck bed (wooden). This was not made to sit in a shop, it was used for field work. Not a whole lot of work on an early farm requiring that kind of box to be dragged around that much, especially carpentry. Farmers had fixed shop areas for serious work. That kind of leads me to suspect that your Grandfather, being a farmer all his life, was not the original owner/builder of this chest, that he may himself acquired it second-hand a long time ago.

So....taking an educated guess with all the detective work, I think we're looking at post-Civil war (the nails), but before early 1900s when hardware like those handles were readily available off-the-shelf. If it were a mobile field box for a carpenter to carry all his important tools with him to job sites, we could imagine this being made/used during the post-war to pre-1900s building boom periods of mid-1860s to mid-1870s, and the 1880s. the latter being more probable just because more things survive from that period than earlier and more commercially produced carpenter's hand tools were available.

That's my best guess.

 

[RTM]

So, a couple of months back I got to pick through a monstrous tool chest like this. It was way too big for use in my shop, so I had to leave it behind. Most of the tools I acquired could be reasonably traced to 1870-90 based on patent dates, new variants superseding etc. the owner of the box was a Finish carpenter, the great grandson was getting evicted and needed it gone. I didn’t look closely at the exterior build, didn’t want to get emotionally attached. But the handles were much more finished, the interior was a bunch of tills for finish tools. So I’d agree with the date being pre 1880 or so, and for less refined than finish carpenter tasks.

 

[Heavy Rusted Stuff]

Thanks for taking the time to provide such a thorough review. It is pretty cool to own something that likely belonged to my great grandfather. I will start searching some of the woodworking forums to figure out bring it back to life; likely something lite to preserve the patina. I have some other tools that came from his farm that I will likely share in another thread.

r/
Russ

 

[Farmer J.]

Russ, I only just got around to reading this thread, sometimes it takes a while to get response. Interesting old box and I agree with all that DadsTools posted above.
It's possible that the chest was originally made and used for something other than carpentry tools, and your Grandfather 're purposed' it for his tool box.
Those old hand made handles are a lovely feature.
I would lightly sand the whole thing and give it a few coats of Boiled Linseed Oil thinned with White Spirit.
Please post up further information as you find out more..
Good first post, and welcome to the GJ.