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Need help with wiring up a 220v motor starter for air compressor.

IQRaceworks

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Oct 25, 2012
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SW Missouri
So I'm getting ready to wire up my Quincy 325 air compressor with a 7.5hp single phase 220v motor on it. I wired up a 220v single phase outlet on the wall, coming off of a 50a circuit breaker in the breaker box. The 3-prong type 220v outlet has 2 hot wires, and 1 ground wire going to it....no neutral (or common).

Here is the problem. All of the 40a 7.5hp motor starter boxes I've seen have a 120v coil (powered by my pressure switch). The problem I'm running into is that in order to power the coil with 120v single phase, I need 1 hot wire and 1 neutral wire......which I don't have.

So, the way I see it...I have two options. 1. wire up a different 220v outlet box, one of the 4 prong receptacles with 2 hot wires, 1 ground, and 1 neutral wire. Then I can pull 120v power off of 1 hot wire, and 1 neutral wire.

2. I find a 40a motor starter box with a contactor that has a 220v coil. I've looked, but haven't had much luck.

Any other options? What as I missing??
 
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msgross

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ok, i'm no electrician but the ground in my 220 outlet acts as my neutral. take that advice for what you paid for it though.

My motor had the wiring diagram under the wire box cover. 50amps seems really high, mine only needs a 20a.
 

Aceman

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1. I'd use a larger breaker, at least a 70 amp to start with.
2. You need to hardwire it. A 7.5HP motor on a 50 amp recep isn't right.
3. What size and kind of wire did you use?
4. You definitely need a starter with a 240 coil. They are out there. Every starter manufacturer makes one.
 
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IQRaceworks

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1. I'd use a larger breaker, at least a 70 amp to start with.
2. You need to hardwire it. A 7.5HP motor on a 50 amp recep isn't right.
3. What size and kind of wire did you use?
4. You definitely need a starter with a 240 coil. They are out there. Every starter manufacturer makes one.

I wired it to a 50a 220v receptacle so I can unplug the compressor, and hook a welder up to the same outlet. I'm going to use a 3-prong 50a rated dryer cord with 10ga wire. The running amps on the motor is around 20a, why would I need a 70a breaker? It seems like every post I've found with guys that are running 7.5hp compressors, they all use 50 or 60 amp breakers.
 

Charles (in GA)

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240v coils are very common. Every discussion on GJ about motor starters recently have involved ones with 240v coils. The coils are a separate part of the relay, it slides out and is easily replaced by one with a different voltage.

50 amp receptacle is not rated for more than about 3 hp.

No reason to use a plug and cord on a 7.5 hp, it isn't going anywhere. Install a disconnect box or two or four position sub panel and breakers to use as a disconnect.

Charles
 

Aceman

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If it's a TRUE 7.5 HP then I stand by my comments which are based on code. A 50 amp breaker is the legal minimum, but I'd still start with a 70 to prevent nuisance trips.

For the record a real 7.5HP would be closer to 35-40 amps.
 
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theoldwizard1

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1. wire up a different 220v outlet box, one of the 4 prong receptacles with 2 hot wires, 1 ground, and 1 neutral wire. Then I can pull 120v power off of 1 hot wire, and 1 neutral wire.

This.

Some one with more intimate code knowledge will have to decide if a 14-50P on a 10 gauge dryer cord is legal/safe for a 7.5hp motor. Sounds a bit henky to me !!

Cooper_Nema_14-50_5752AN.jpg


Remember, welders are NOT continuous duty but electric motors are ! For on-continuous duty, you can use lighter wire.
 
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IQRaceworks

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Messages
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SW Missouri
240v coils are very common. Every discussion on GJ about motor starters recently have involved ones with 240v coils. The coils are a separate part of the relay, it slides out and is easily replaced by one with a different voltage.

50 amp receptacle is not rated for more than about 3 hp.

No reason to use a plug and cord on a 7.5 hp, it isn't going anywhere. Install a disconnect box or two or four position sub panel and breakers to use as a disconnect.

Charles

I actually have the receptacle wired up to a 50a breaker, in a sub panel...right next to where the compressor is, so I can use it as a disconnect. I have #6 wire with #10 ground going to the receptacle box. So that parts done.

I guess I'm confused....if the motor is rated to pull 30amps at full load, (but actually pulls around 20a when it's running the compressor), why would a 50a receptacle not be up to the task? The breaker, the wire, the receptacle, the plug....everything is rated for 50a. :confused:

I'm just trying to learn all I can, thanks for all the info! :thumbup:
 

2ManyProjects

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So I'm getting ready to wire up my Quincy 325 air compressor with a 7.5hp single phase 220v motor on it. I wired up a 220v single phase outlet on the wall, coming off of a 50a circuit breaker in the breaker box.

Before going any further, note that compressor manufacturers are NOTORIOUS for lying through their teeth about horsepower ratings. There was even a class action lawsuit over this issue a few years ago. I'll leave it to you and Google for the gory details.

That said, IF your compressor REALLY has a 7.5HP motor on it, that breaker/socket/plug arrangement will NOT be adequate. In fact, AFAIK, NO commonly available outlet/plug combo will be suitable, or meet code. You DO need to hard-wire it.

ok, i'm no electrician but the ground in my 220 outlet acts as my neutral. take that advice for what you paid for it though.

At least in theory, that can be done; and it used to be fairly common (including for other 220V/240V appliances, such as ranges/ovens, clothes dryers, etc.). However, it no longer meets more recent versions of the NEC. If there is ANY need for a 120V "tap" in the appliance in question, you MUST use a four-wire feed with separate Neutral and EGC conductors.

My motor had the wiring diagram under the wire box cover. 50amps seems really high, mine only needs a 20a.

Then there's no way that's really anywhere near 7.5 HP. Maybe 3 HP, at most.

1. I'd use a larger breaker, at least a 70 amp to start with.
2. You need to hardwire it. A 7.5HP motor on a 50 amp recep isn't right.
3. What size and kind of wire did you use?
4. You definitely need a starter with a 240 coil. They are out there. Every starter manufacturer makes one.

Agreed, on all counts.

I wired it to a 50a 220v receptacle so I can unplug the compressor, and hook a welder up to the same outlet.

As noted above, that's no good.

I'm going to use a 3-prong 50a rated dryer cord with 10ga wire.

Also no good, on multiple counts. You need at least AWG 8, and AWG 6 would be a better bet. And you need to hard-wire it.

The running amps on the motor is around 20a, why would I need a 70a breaker?

You might not. But that's only because IF that motor only pulls 20A, then it is NOT a 7.5 HP motor. You will probably find this:

http://www.buildmyowncabin.com/nec/nec2011_table430.248.html

useful.

It seems like every post I've found with guys that are running 7.5hp compressors, they all use 50 or 60 amp breakers.

Aceman covered this perfectly: A 50A breaker is "legal"; but more is better, as long as the feeder cable is up to snuff.

I actually have the receptacle wired up to a 50a breaker, in a sub panel...right next to where the compressor is, so I can use it as a disconnect.

Using the breaker as the local disconnect is not ideal; but it's probably workable in a pinch.

I have #6 wire with #10 ground going to the receptacle box. So that parts done.

So convert that "receptacle box" into a hard-wired junction box, using some appropriate BX/MC cable or similar to connect to the compressor itself.

I guess I'm confused....if the motor is rated to pull 30amps at full load, (but actually pulls around 20a when it's running the compressor), why would a 50a receptacle not be up to the task? The breaker, the wire, the receptacle, the plug....everything is rated for 50a. :confused:

Because (at least per code) plugs and receptacles have BOTH current ratings AND horsepower ratings, and neither one "overrides" the other. IOW, you need to meet BOTH specs in order to be code-compliant. And as noted previously, no commonly available plugs and receptacles have horsepower ratings exceeding about 3 HP.

Now, if you're wondering why a receptacle/plug which would otherwise be capable of 50A is effectively only "good for" about 20A when used with a motor, the answer can be found in two words: Inrush Current.

 
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IQRaceworks

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Messages
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Thanks for all of the info, I really want to make sure I do this right.

So.....I will replace the 50a breaker with a 60a one I have, then remove the receptacle box, and wire in a disconnect box, and then hard wire the motor starter box in (no plug), then I should be good to go...right?

And if I'm not supposed to run a "tap" off of the 220v for a 120v coil....I guess the "right" way to do it is only to use a motor starter set up for a 220v coil?

As far as the air compressor goes....it's an early 60's Quincy 325, so I'm assuming the 7.5hp motor on it is also from the 60's. The guy I bought it from had it directly wired up to a 40a breaker, with power running right to the pressure switch....I don't know how he didn't cook the contacts in the pressure switch.....but apparently it worked for him.

I want it done right, not like he had it :D
 

JoeFin

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NorCal - where the Rednecks Race
Let me settle this

NO - you do not need the Nuetral at the Receptacle.

What you need is a Combination Starter/Safety Disconnect with an internal Control Transformer. They are quite common in fact. The Secondary side of the control transformer is grounded to the metal enclosure and produces 120v control power

If you want the "Built Up" remedy - meaning your going to use an enclosure and install all the parts to build up your starter disconnect combo then you only need address the secondary side of the 120v control transformer with a fuse.

Check Ebay - they have them there all the time for some pretty good prices, or all the parts to build up a code compliant Combination Starter too

My preferred option would be a simple "Hand Switch" rated for the 7.5 Hp or better followed by a 2 Pole fuse block with "Slow Blow Fuses" rated for motor and its in rush. The line side of the Fuse holder will be tapped with the control transformer connections. A nice Red Pilot light would be nice to indicate control power is applied but not required


$_1.JPG


3 phase - 60 amp - $49

As for the question do you need to Hard Wire it - that is best answered by "Does the Compressor have Wheels" If it is "Fixed Equipment" then by code it needs to be Hard Wired
 
Last edited:

wyliesdiesels

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Aug 14, 2012
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Modesto, CA
ok, i'm no electrician but the ground in my 220 outlet acts as my neutral. take that advice for what you paid for it though.

My motor had the wiring diagram under the wire box cover. 50amps seems really high, mine only needs a 20a.

If its an old 3-wire feed/outlet, then its not a ground but instead a neutral fed by an insulated wire. Never use a bare ground/EGC as a neutral otherwise things could get shocking!

And if your motor only runs on 20a then its not 7.5hp!

This.

Some one with more intimate code knowledge will have to decide if a 14-50P on a 10 gauge dryer cord is legal/safe for a 7.5hp motor. Sounds a bit henky to me !!

Cooper_Nema_14-50_5752AN.jpg


Remember, welders are NOT continuous duty but electric motors are ! For on-continuous duty, you can use lighter wire.

A 14-50p and #10 wouldnt work for a 7.5hp motor because the outlet is only rated for a max of 3hp and the motor has an NEC listed FLC of 40a, which means #8 THHN or #6 NM.

I actually have the receptacle wired up to a 50a breaker, in a sub panel...right next to where the compressor is, so I can use it as a disconnect. I have #6 wire with #10 ground going to the receptacle box. So that parts done.

I guess I'm confused....if the motor is rated to pull 30amps at full load, (but actually pulls around 20a when it's running the compressor), why would a 50a receptacle not be up to the task? The breaker, the wire, the receptacle, the plug....everything is rated for 50a. :confused:

I'm just trying to learn all I can, thanks for all the info! :thumbup:

Because the outlet is rated for a max of 3hp!

Thanks for all of the info, I really want to make sure I do this right.

So.....I will replace the 50a breaker with a 60a one I have, then remove the receptacle box, and wire in a disconnect box, and then hard wire the motor starter box in (no plug), then I should be good to go...right?

And if I'm not supposed to run a "tap" off of the 220v for a 120v coil....I guess the "right" way to do it is only to use a motor starter set up for a 220v coil?


As far as the air compressor goes....it's an early 60's Quincy 325, so I'm assuming the 7.5hp motor on it is also from the 60's. The guy I bought it from had it directly wired up to a 40a breaker, with power running right to the pressure switch....I don't know how he didn't cook the contacts in the pressure switch.....but apparently it worked for him.

I want it done right, not like he had it :D

Correct.

U could use a control transformer and tap off of the 240v coming into the comp. the sec side would give u the 120v u need for the coil!

Let me settle this

NO - you do not need the Nuetral at the Receptacle.

What you need is a Combination Starter/Safety Disconnect with an internal Control Transformer. They are quite common in fact. The Secondary side of the control transformer is grounded to the metal enclosure and produces 120v control power

If you want the "Built Up" remedy - meaning your going to use an enclosure and install all the parts to build up your starter disconnect combo then you only need address the secondary side of the 120v control transformer with a fuse.

Check Ebay - they have them there all the time for some pretty good prices, or all the parts to build up a code compliant Combination Starter too

My preferred option would be a simple "Hand Switch" rated for the 7.5 Hp or better followed by a 2 Pole fuse block with "Slow Blow Fuses" rated for motor and its in rush. The line side of the Fuse holder will be tapped with the control transformer connections. A nice Red Pilot light would be nice to indicate control power is applied but not required


$_1.JPG


3 phase - 60 amp - $49

As for the question do you need to Hard Wire it - that is best answered by "Does the Compressor have Wheels" If it is "Fixed Equipment" then by code it needs to be Hard Wired


U would also need to hardwire it if the motor is more than 3hp because standard NEMA receptacles arent rated for more than 3hp, even if it had wheels attached to it!
 
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