Need honest advice from other techs

[KinzeMech]

^^This guy's^^ got it right here. (was referring to mrjaw14, last post at the time I began composing my post)
It's not any easier to save when you make more money, you just find more things you "need".
It takes a lot of discipline to honestly determine what you need. If there's a tool that takes an hour off a job, and you're not a flat rate shop, not only do you have the expense of that tool, but you have the expense of that lost hour. That's not a tool purchase that pays off, that's a tool that continues to cost.

That said, if you have ambitions of making money, turning wrenches is the wrong place to do it. There are jobs in life that pay more than they are worth, and there are jobs that pay less. Wrenching is most often the latter. You can't do this for the money, it's got to be work you really want to do.

 

[diesel research]

ok......

just some assumptions im making of your situation

*non certified
*only worked at one employer

after your first 2 years, you should have already been applying elsewhere, unless there is still more that this place can teach you. Wages are negotiated during the interview process. after that, small cost of living raises, IF ANYTHING, is about all that will be obtained. $0.30 here, $0.50 there, or a fat goose egg.

the experience should (IMHO) be as wide as possible. meaning not another equipment dealer. next time is industrial/otr truck/power generation/marine/oil and gas. Spending 10yrs mastering a very specific niche, will often not be beneficial. chances are, your next employer will not have the same exact equipment, and will be concerned about how well you "adapt" to their environment.

the stuff i work on, is typically the one example existing in the world (prototype oil and gas). You cant be experienced on it. Being the master in another niche isnt impressive. therefore i had to demonstrate a previous ability to handle many different varieties of mechanical disciplines. Not just otr trucks. i wont be here forever either. they know that. we will obtain mutual benefit and part like the red sea.

if you want to stay limited to dealership environment and specific vehicle/equipment types, mastery is beneficial. If you want an unique experience and reward, diversity and flexibility is key.

If you are young enough, being a road warrior for a short while, can clear up financial debts if done right. wont ever be home (except for short periods of time) but field work will pay your bills and give you invaluable experience. that might be offshore, international, etc.

 

[pilotman81]

ok......

just some assumptions im making of your situation

*non certified
*only worked at one employer

after your first 2 years, you should have already been applying elsewhere, unless there is still more that this place can teach you. Wages are negotiated during the interview process. after that, small cost of living raises, IF ANYTHING, is about all that will be obtained. $0.30 here, $0.50 there, or a fat goose egg.

the experience should (IMHO) be as wide as possible. meaning not another equipment dealer. next time is industrial/otr truck/power generation/marine/oil and gas. Spending 10yrs mastering a very specific niche, will often not be beneficial. chances are, your next employer will not have the same exact equipment, and will be concerned about how well you "adapt" to their environment.

the stuff i work on, is typically the one example existing in the world (prototype oil and gas). You cant be experienced on it. Being the master in another niche isnt impressive. therefore i had to demonstrate a previous ability to handle many different varieties of mechanical disciplines. Not just otr trucks. i wont be here forever either. they know that. we will obtain mutual benefit and part like the red sea.

if you want to stay limited to dealership environment and specific vehicle/equipment types, mastery is beneficial. If you want an unique experience and reward, diversity and flexibility is key.

If you are young enough, being a road warrior for a short while, can clear up financial debts if done right. wont ever be home (except for short periods of time) but field work will pay your bills and give you invaluable experience. that might be offshore, international, etc.

Could not agree more. I work on the road with oil and gas equipment and have experience with the railroad, OTR trucks, large turbochargers, and machine tooling. All of these things have helped me get to where I am and will aid me in getting farther along. I concur with the advice to branch out.

 

[Heavy Metal Doctor]

If there's a tool that takes an hour off a job, and you're not a flat rate shop, not only do you have the expense of that tool, but you have the expense of that lost hour. That's not a tool purchase that pays off, that's a tool that continues to cost.

I'm still trying to wrap my head around this comment.....

 

[KinzeMech]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around this comment.....

I don't see where it's tough to get. If you're not flat rate, but actual time, and you spend money on a tool that gets the job done faster, it reduces your billable hours.

If I buy a $300 tool that lets me do a 6 hour job in 5 hours, then I have the expense of the tool, plus I've lost one billable hour for that job. If you are not in a flat rate shop, it becomes more difficult to financially justify tools that get the job done faster.

 

[4x4gearhead]

I make quite a bit less than $18 an hour and scrape by myself. I think you need to re eval where youre money's going, and **** no moonlighting policies, without moonlighting, I wouldnt make it by at some points of the year.

 

[p0lar]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around this comment.....

I understand what he's getting at, but in the mean time, his competitor has accomplished more work and performed it more efficiently. The rationale is short-sighted in several ways. (I don't mean that as an insult to the owner of that particular circumstance, only that in the grand scheme of things and when considering larger projects/management/business/economics decisions, it doesn't pay out well - at all)

 

[Heavy Metal Doctor]

I was being facetious.....

I don't see where it's tough to get. If you're not flat rate, but actual time, and you spend money on a tool that gets the job done faster, it reduces your billable hours.

If I buy a $300 tool that lets me do a 6 hour job in 5 hours, then I have the expense of the tool, plus I've lost one billable hour for that job. If you are not in a flat rate shop, it becomes more difficult to financially justify tools that get the job done faster.

Yeah, and since I consistently get the jobs done an hour faster, the boss gives me the raise and wants to keep me around ( and pays to do so), while the guys who refuse to buy tools muddle their way through with less efficient ways of doing the work and they come and go.
Most employers want performance - hourly or flat rate doesn't matter.
I could drag my feet and struggle through with 2 screwdrivers and a pair vise-grips trying to rely on ability alone to carry me through, but we all know that having good tools for timely repair work is good for all involved.

I'm not saying any mechanic should put his tool buying over paying the bills, buying shoes for Junior, but buying good tools is almost never a BAD idea.

 

[Steinmetz]

Another thing I have seen is all the shops and dealerships have contracts that the tech MUST sign in order for employment. They state that the employee agrees to not work on any similar equipment on their day off, or some state that the employee wont work for any other shop with equipment geared towards the same market for up to 5 years! Is this normal?!?!?!!?!?

Generally, restrictions on future employment are not enforceable.

 

[crewchief888]

2 years into a job pulling wrenches on heavy eq.

the 1st 5-10 years are the most expensive as far as tool purchasing, all depends on what your are working on, and how well your shop is equipped.

tool buying needs to be on as "as needed" basis, to make whatever task you are doing easier on yourself.
why make a (sometimes) difficult job harder on yourself than it has to be?
the argument of doing a "job faster cost me billable hours", in a non flat rate shop IMHO is BS.. your employer will see the more work you crank out by the end of the day, the more work you have.
will there be slow times?
definitely
thats the time to clean up, straighten up, repair tools & equipment, check over service trucks, trailers ect.
at least in our shop, theres always that needs to be done. typically by the time we get done cleaning up, we get work piled up on us.
i've seen our shop go from ZERO work, to a 2 week backlog in less than 4 hours.

in this area, top const eq mechanics at dealerships, pull in a little over $30/hr
it takes a long,long time to get there.
i've been at dealerships for 30 years..

 

[Spudland_Dave]

Generally, restrictions on future employment are not enforceable.

The no moonlighting policy or future employment terms are new to me..
While I worked at the dealership, I understood fully why SO and MAC tout the spring loaded casters...heck I'm surprised they don't offer a trailer hitch package and DOT approved wheels under toolboxes...it was and still is common practice for a tech to leave...go across the street or down the road (if other areas are like here, dealers seem to cluster in a 2-3 mile stretch of road) to work for a buck more an hour...6-8 months later they were rolling their toolboxes back into the shop for .25 cents more...etc.. It was ALWAYS Happening...

 

[Heavy Metal Doctor]

typically by the time we get done cleaning up, we get work piled up on us.
i've seen our shop go from ZERO work, to a 2 week backlog in less than 4 hours.

Same here - Unlike some the comments people make about hourly mechanics having to do "busy work" during low times, I have to MAKE time for the other little "housekeeping" jobs I actually WANT to get done. I haven't ever wondered if I have enough to do and I don't even bat an eye when the yard gets emptied out - I know it will all change with one phone call.

 

[SlowPoke-Canada]

Best advise is to take what you can, learn what you can and then go work for yourself.

I have to agree. My only regret is not doing it sooner.

In my line of work, the only way to break through the income ceiling is to absorb some risk for yourself. I had a good company job for many years (18) and I would have stayed to the bitter end if not for seeing 'the writing on the wall'. It was the push I needed to take the risk on myself.

It's not for everybody and every occupation has varying risk levels. My move was relatively low risk and I was fairly well established before doing so. A line of credit from the bank enabled the entire process.

 

[tstaude]

Here are my two words of advice:

FLIP CARS

If you have the knowledge and a a place to do it, this is the fastest cash you will ever make. Here in WI you can buy and sell 5 cars per year legally, so that is 10 with my wife included.
I bought many cars for $500-$2000 and never made less than $1200 in labor per car, never less than $50 an hour!
Clean sells, my wife detailed these cars to no end and I did all the mechanical work. Clutches, ******'s, engines, head gaskets, you name it. Always go for a car with some sort of disabling failure, rent a tow dolly and get to work.

Working for the man does not get you ahead, work for yourself!

 

[ihateminimumwage]

Here are my two words of advice:

FLIP CARS

If you have the knowledge and a a place to do it, this is the fastest cash you will ever make. Here in WI you can buy and sell 5 cars per year legally, so that is 10 with my wife included.
I bought many cars for $500-$2000 and never made less than $1200 in labor per car, never less than $50 an hour!
Clean sells, my wife detailed these cars to no end and I did all the mechanical work. Clutches, ******'s, engines, head gaskets, you name it. Always go for a car with some sort of disabling failure, rent a tow dolly and get to work.

Working for the man does not get you ahead, work for yourself!

God bless headgasket failures!

 

[jfcasey]

I was being facetious.....




Yeah, and since I consistently get the jobs done an hour faster, the boss gives me the raise and wants to keep me around ( and pays to do so), while the guys who refuse to buy tools muddle their way through with less efficient ways of doing the work and they come and go.
Most employers want performance - hourly or flat rate doesn't matter.
I could drag my feet and struggle through with 2 screwdrivers and a pair vise-grips trying to rely on ability alone to carry me through, but we all know that having good tools for timely repair work is good for all involved.

I'm not saying any mechanic should put his tool buying over paying the bills, buying shoes for Junior, but buying good tools is almost never a BAD idea.

This guy has it right. If you are an hourly employee in a shop, your boss is looking at your billable hours and comparing to your actual hours, the more positive you keep that ratio the more money you are making the shop i.e. the more you are worth keeping and the more money you will be paid.

It sounds like what that one guy is saying is you should avoid buying tools that make you more efficient so you can leach more hours off your employer while producing less

 

[crewchief888]

This guy has it right. If you are an hourly employee in a shop, your boss is looking at your billable hours and comparing to your actual hours, the more positive you keep that ratio the more money you are making the shop i.e. the more you are worth keeping and the more money you will be paid.

It sounds like what that one guy is saying is you should avoid buying tools that make you more efficient so you can leach more hours off your employer while producing less

i work hourly at a const eq dealer
over the past year or so, we've been tracking billable hrs vs hours billed vs "shop time"

anything above 85% we get a percentage bonus on...

one month we were at 108%

for me working, working faster does put more money in my pocket

 

[KinzeMech]

It sounds like what that one guy is saying is you should avoid buying tools that make you more efficient so you can leach more hours off your employer while producing less

If you're referring to me, I was not advocating that. More of a gripe about situations that encourage it. For example, I'm the only one in my shop furnishing my own tools (good ones, that allow me to get through work faster. The other guys use the shop's tools (basic stuff. sockets, wrenches, screwdrivers and hammers. That's it, and pretty crummy ones at that). One guy even took his rollaway & tools home. I get my work done faster, but it's not a flat rate shop. I don't make any more money for my efforts, the only thing I get is more work.

Apologies for the gripe. It's just a little frustrating to make the extra effort, for nothing.

 

[mech-tech]

Ok guys, new problem added. My employer just came out with a new policy for everyone, basically saying if we talk about any of the work that has been billed or mention any of the work that they have screwed people over on, or if we go work somewhere else and inform the customer so they can switch repair contracts, my employer has the right to take us to court, sue us and on top of that we have to pay their court and lawyer costs! I refused to sign it, which hasn't been a problem yet. The reason it has come up is due to past employees leaving due to bad management and taking the work with them cause the customers prefered their work. I am taking this as my red light to find another job ASAP!

 

[jfcasey]

i work hourly at a const eq dealer
over the past year or so, we've been tracking billable hrs vs hours billed vs "shop time"

anything above 85% we get a percentage bonus on...

one month we were at 108%

for me working, working faster does put more money in my pocket

My employer was doing a similar scenario for a while, however dropped it due to some cheaters. Now they just keep track and hand out raises to those who continute to perform without hassle/ comebacks.

Ok guys, new problem added. My employer just came out with a new policy for everyone, basically saying if we talk about any of the work that has been billed or mention any of the work that they have screwed people over on, or if we go work somewhere else and inform the customer so they can switch repair contracts, my employer has the right to take us to court, sue us and on top of that we have to pay their court and lawyer costs! I refused to sign it, which hasn't been a problem yet. The reason it has come up is due to past employees leaving due to bad management and taking the work with them cause the customers prefered their work. I am taking this as my red light to find another job ASAP!

Sounds like a redlight to GTFO while you still can. I don't think its a sign to leave the industry, just to find a new place to work.

Kinztech, I was referring to your post, I am sorry I misinterpreted it. I can see your point of view however I would still give a good effort everyday if nothing else than to better yourself for a future position with a company who cares more.

 

[ladrones]

Ok guys, new problem added. My employer just came out with a new policy for everyone, basically saying if we talk about any of the work that has been billed or mention any of the work that they have screwed people over on, or if we go work somewhere else and inform the customer so they can switch repair contracts, my employer has the right to take us to court, sue us and on top of that we have to pay their court and lawyer costs! I refused to sign it, which hasn't been a problem yet. The reason it has come up is due to past employees leaving due to bad management and taking the work with them cause the customers prefered their work. I am taking this as my red light to find another job ASAP!

Run away. Sounds like a sinking ship. Maybe consider getting out of the forklift end of it all together.

 

[Heavy Metal Doctor]

If you're referring to me, I was not advocating that. More of a gripe about situations that encourage it. For example, I'm the only one in my shop furnishing my own tools (good ones, that allow me to get through work faster. The other guys use the shop's tools (basic stuff. sockets, wrenches, screwdrivers and hammers. That's it, and pretty crummy ones at that). One guy even took his rollaway & tools home. I get my work done faster, but it's not a flat rate shop. I don't make any more money for my efforts, the only thing I get is more work.

Apologies for the gripe. It's just a little frustrating to make the extra effort, for nothing.

It's ok. And I'd say not "for nothing" when you know you are better off for having the tools available more so than just "helping" the other guys by providing the stuff for them. And the boss's have to see you are doing better making an ivestment in the job as career.
I had a suspicion you where experiencing that sort of situation you described. I have heard the same complaint many times even to the point of guys quitting a job.
I'm lucky in the fact that there are few people in my shop, so being the guy with 99% of the tools isn't so bad.
My helper I know I "carry" in terms of tools. He refuses to buy anything because he's broke / not making enough money (but he doesn't seem to understand he's his own worst enemy in that department). When he gets to borrowing a particular tool of mine constantly, I make the shop buy one, then he can borrow that one. If he's doing good, I make it his to keep as a bonus.
Even being a small company, things can get bad with sales guys / other departments borrowing tools to the point that I have threatened the lock my box anytime I leave the bay and I DO lock it when I go on vacation with key available for one guy I trust.

i work hourly at a const eq dealer
over the past year or so, we've been tracking billable hrs vs hours billed vs "shop time"

anything above 85% we get a percentage bonus on...

one month we were at 108%

for me working, working faster does put more money in my pocket

My employer was doing a similar scenario for a while, however dropped it due to some cheaters. Now they just keep track and hand out raises to those who continute to perform without hassle/ comebacks.
.

At least there some acknowledgement of doing good.


I started getting a percentage of all my labor at least 10 years back. They only pay it quarterly and "in house" stuff like fixing up a traded in machine for resale or adding options to new ones prior to delivery is only credited to me at about 75% of the regular shop rate. The rest is regular billable labor and is all tracked in the computer and takes the office just a second to figure up my percentage. My quarterly cut is usually like an extra week or 2 pay.....which is due this week

Ok guys, new problem added. My employer just came out with a new policy for everyone, basically saying if we talk about any of the work that has been billed or mention any of the work that they have screwed people over on, or if we go work somewhere else and inform the customer so they can switch repair contracts, my employer has the right to take us to court, sue us and on top of that we have to pay their court and lawyer costs! I refused to sign it, which hasn't been a problem yet. The reason it has come up is due to past employees leaving due to bad management and taking the work with them cause the customers prefered their work. I am taking this as my red light to find another job ASAP!

And I would also suggest that this all sounds like a bunch of BS and it's time to MTFO.
On the other hand, they will have a hard time with legal proceedings if they decided to peruse an ex employee from what I have ever heard of these things. I'm not much of a legal mind, but my understand of "non compete" contracts and all that is that the worker still has the right to do whatever he has to to make a living. "Stealing" customers may be wrong, but how can the company prove it. Usually these things are just desperate threats from companies in trouble.