Need Machinists input/guidance

[ringneck]

I am not a real proficient machinist, but have always wanted to better my skills and get to the point where I can make more of my own parts/tooling for projects. As such, I am looking to add a modest bench top mill and lathe to the shop.

Just to get it out of the way, because I am sure it will be coming... I know Chinese *****, benchtop *****, and bigger old iron is better

I was looking at the Grizzly G0619 (looks to be the Chinese sieg x3), and the G0752 10x22 lathe...

In shopping around I happened to go onto the Smithy site, not really interested in a mill/lathe combo but happened there anyway.

They have a couple variable speed units (lathe and mill, not too interested in the combo), that look interesting. They have DRO and are roughly comparable to the Grizzly units in specs, a touch more in price, however didnt seem bad for adding the DRO in my mind.

I can't find anything on the Smithys (although suspect they are the same Chinese units just dressed differently).

I have a couple questions for the GJ crew.

Is it worth having this scale of equipment in the shop? I know it will be fun to tinker with and hone technique, I would like to ultimately get some value out of them too (useful work).

Do you have any opinions on this equipment, or options?

Should I be taking a different approach altogether? (Already have some community college instruction under the belt, will likely do more).

Thanks in advance.

 

[larry_g]

The two grizzly machines would probably be good machines to learn on. They have a smaller work envelope but you can do a lot with them and learn what you desire in your next machines.

lg

 

[IndyGarage]

There was a thread on 3 in 1 tools recently - I think in the fab section.

I just recently sold my smithy. I had it for about 12 years. I can't say I used it a ton, but I did learn on it, and it did make the parts I needed - albeit slowly. They are not production shop tools, think of a bit higher grade than Harbour Freight.

The only frustrating thing for me was they are pretty underpowered, so you end up working very slowly on whatever you are trying to do.

I don't regret my decision to buy that one, and the Smithy name made it pretty easy to sell.

My only advice on buying machines is to pay less attention to the machine itself and pay more attention to the accessories it comes with. On a lathe you'll need a bunch of cutting tools, a quick change toolpost with holders, a couple different chucks, perhaps a collet holder with collets, a chuck for the tailstock - a set of centers, and lathe dogs, a knurling tool. And quite a few of those things are somewhat specific to your type of machine.

All those accessories are going to cost you way more than the machine itself - which is why my recommendation is to find an older retired guy - or his widow - in your area who has amassed all that stuff for his machine and babied it along the way. BTW, a milling machine has an even larger array of necessary tools to do real work on it.

My current lathe is a 1942 model 10EE monarch. It's footprint isn't much bigger than the workbench the Smithy stood on, so it doesn't take up much more room. It's an infinitely more capable machine though.

One more thought. If you are doing threading, then a threading gearbox is much easier than quick change gears.

 

[Steevo]

There are some very good quality bench top mills available.
They are quite accurate and good for small parts work.

The forums at this site have a wealth of good information available, and the people there are friendly and willing to share, unlike many of the elitist machinist forums.

http://hobby-machinist.com/index.php

 

[Cedge]

I have the SX3 mill and for a bench top, it's a stout beast. I've enjoyed the machine and have been quite pleased with its capabilities.

I also have the "C4" lathe which is a an 8 X17. It's been a perfect match for the SX3. Both machines are variable speed, which really gives you control over even difficult metals.

 

[ringneck]

I have the SX3 mill and for a bench top, it's a stout beast. I've enjoyed the machine and have been quite pleased with its capabilities.

I also have the "C4" lathe which is a an 8 X17. It's been a perfect match for the SX3. Both machines are variable speed, which really gives you control over even difficult metals.

Cedge, it looks like both the Smithy and the Grizzly are both SX3, the difference is Smithy has a 2 year warranty vs a 1 year from Grizzly, smithy added DRO to the mill, and Smithy is charging about $350 more. In your mind, is the warranty/DRO worth the price delta?

It looks to be about the same story on the lathe...

Good to here it is useful...

Steevo, I took a spin on some of the machinists forums... It was clear I was in the wrong place I'll try the one you shared, Thanks!

 

[larry_g]

Cedge, it looks like both the Smithy and the Grizzly are both SX3, the difference is Smithy has a 2 year warranty vs a 1 year from Grizzly, smithy added DRO to the mill, and Smithy is charging about $350 more. In your mind, is the warranty/DRO worth the price delta?

It looks to be about the same story on the lathe...

Good to here it is useful...

Steevo, I took a spin on some of the machinists forums... It was clear I was in the wrong place I'll try the one you shared, Thanks!

You better study the spec sheets on the two machines. It looks like the smithy is 3/4 the size of the grizzley.


smithy http://www.smithy.com/node/538

griz http://cdn0.grizzly.com/specsheets/g0619_ds.pdf

lg
no neat sig line

 

[ringneck]

You better study the spec sheets on the two machines. It looks like the smithy is 3/4 the size of the grizzley.

Thanks for taking time to look, I should have caught that... The weight should have been a dead give-away. The Smithy is not as deep, smaller table, smaller motor, narrower quill.

Grizz looks like a much better choice given that information!

 

[ringneck]

Sorry to bump my thread, but hopefully last question...

I had someone suggest a G0704 as an option. Table and work envelope is a little bigger (not a lot) and it comes with a stand. He thought it was a good value at $600 less.

The big difference looks to be brushless DC motor/belt drive on the G0619 vs AC motor/gear drive on the G0704, and a big weight difference with the 704 being 100 lbs lighter.

My electrical knowledge suggests that the DC will give me full torque at all speeds, coupled with a belt being quieter (leaning that direction).

What are your thoughts on this? Would I be foolish to spend the extra coin?

I plan to pull the trigger soon, and appreciate the input. I decided to hold off on a lathe for now and spend more cash on tooling.

 

[Kevin54]

Also take a look at JET Machinery. For Chinese built, the quality is pretty good over some of the other China stuff. I bought a 14 x 40 JET Lathe and the accuracy is great on it.

You may also want to look online for ones being sold. As long as you know what to look for in a used machine, you can get some pretty good deals.

 

[Cedge]

Ringneck
It looks like you answered your own question. The Grizzly is quite a bit more machine. I added DRO's to mine and it made the whole thing even more fun to use.

Steve

 

[Bolster]

I was looking at the Grizzly G0619 (looks to be the Chinese sieg x3)...

I own this machine and it has done well by me, but you do need to set it up--it's a bit kit-like, not "ready to go out of the box."

There was a chorus of protest from my machine shop friends when I bought it ("It's too small!" "It's Chinese!") but the research kept showing it was a competent machine, so I bought it. Let me tell you, when you have to move (as I just did) you'll be happy. Two movers shoved a dolly under mine and just wheeled it onto the truck, no muss, no fuss. You can do that with a 350 lb machine.

I can generally keep my projects within a thou or two thou, if I pay attention. It's not a sub-thou tolerance machine. But if you can live with its constraints it's a dandy machine IMO.

The X3 has one of the larger envelopes for a smaller machine. It's reasonably rigid, I've not had chattering and swaying issues. Accuracy out of the box can be improved and you may have to shim the base of the column as I did to get it within a thou or so. There's an X3 rebuild instruction manual online that you should review. From Arc Euro Trade, called the SX3 Preparation Guide.

 

[Cedge]

Bolster
Pretty close to my own experience. I spent the time to tram mine in when I got it on the bench. I had to add about .003 of shim to one corner of the column. Granted it isn't a Bridgeport, but it's proven to be both ridged and accurate beyond all my expectations. I do wind up working sub- thousandth from time to time and it "can" do it but you really have to be on your game.
Ringneck...
Keep in mind there is an X3 and a SX3. The SX3 is a little more expensive, but it has some really nice user friendly additional features. When all you have room for is a bench top machine, it's as good as it gets. I've let a few old school "American Iron" guys run it and they were all pleasantly surprised by it's performance. The one guy who gave me the most grief about not going with a Bridgeport, quietly added one to his shop, after using mine.

Here is a couple of good reviews on the two machines

http://www.mini-lathe.com/X3_mill/Sx3rvw/SX3-4.htm

http://www.mini-lathe.com/X3_mill/X3rvw/X3.htm

 

[Nelson58]

I also agree that the Grizzly machine or something comparable in a new shop machine would be best for your needs. The problem with old iron, US or otherwise, is you become a restorer instead of a machinist. You have to restore it before you can use it. I went that way and am sorry- if you want to make chips as soon as possible, go with something new.

Nelson

 

[Contract_Pilot]

Did you ever decide on a machine?