need more air volume

[cloud71]

Hello all, I just purchased the Kobalt 155psi 30gallon air compressor from Lowes about a week ago.
My air hose is Goodyear 3/8in 50ft with 1/4 fittings.

The problem im having is I cant seem to break loose my lug nuts that i put at 120ft pd, with my 700ft pd craftsmen impact wrench.

They have been on for awhile now close to a year.
I can take off newly torqued bolts but not the ones that's been on for a while.

After doing some research on this forum, will 3/8 nozzle fittings with the 1/4 npt threading give the cfm and the pressure needed to the impact wrench?

High flow fittings discussed here, are those the 3/8 fitting with the 1/4 threads?

Thank you

 

[AP514]

Try WD40 ........

but it sounds like your CRAPSman impact is not doing its job...even that 30 gal set at 100 psi should be more than enough air to break a few bolts loose

 

[great white tj]

I would say that it is not the air but your impact wrench, befor you go out and get a new Comp. or impact wrench I would try useing another impact from someone, just to bust the lugs loose and then put the lugs back on with your impact.

 

[ez-duzit]

It sounds like your compressor is not up to the task.

But you don't need an impact wrench to remove lug nuts.

 

[Bob C]

The compressor is easily able to handle that job and your hose and fittings are fine. Your gun is the problem. Buy an I/R231C and solve the issue for good.

 

[cloud71]

OK I'm some what confused about the craftsmen impact wrench its rated at 711 ft pd , all reviews I read on it at the time before purchase was all good.

It should be able to break bolts off.
Here's a pic

About IR231c, what about the IR231g, I read that the g model is the budget model.
Someone has it for sale on craigslist for $100 and states its new in box, is that good?
Or should I offer lower and maybe what price?



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[AP514]

Try some oil for that tool...might need some Marvile Mistery oil.....

 

[cloud71]

Here is my compressor if that makes any difference

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[AP514]

also righty tighty lefty loosey


it is not your compressor........

Looking at your Impact manual it says it takes 5CFM @ 90 psi that is what your compressor is rated 5.5CFM@90 psi..it is the TOOL.

Says 90PSI is max for your tool

 

[cloud71]

So basically, there's nothing wrong with the impact wrench? Its just that the compressor is rated for just half of a cfm above that?

And what about that IR231G, from post above?

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[ez-duzit]

Try your impact wrench on someone's shop compressor to see if you just aren't getting enough air with your small one. Lefty loosey?

 

[pattenp]

I'm leaning more to the impact wrench is the weak link, but it may be a combination of just enough air volume and the wrench.. I had a Harbor Freight and a CH impact wrench and both of those were suppose to be 700ft. lb. wrenches but just didn't do the job for me. I bit the bullet and bought an IR 2135ti, and it's a lot better. But we're talking a $100 or less impact wrench vs. a $250 impact wench.

Oh and my comp outputs 13 scfm @ 90psi.

 

[GYPSY400]

I'd blame the impact before the compressor. . A 30 gallon compressor should handle any 1/2" impact fine.

 

[joe_padavano]

Your problem appears to be insufficient PRESSURE, not volume. My IR impact will loosen nuts and bolts torqued to 150 ft-lb using just my tiny nail gun compressor (OK, it won't do it for long, but I can usually get two loosened before the compressor needs to pump back up).

Either you have a pressure restriction (is the regulator cranked all the way down?), or the impact gun is leaking internally. I had that problem on a 30 year old Craftsman impact that just wore out.

One other thing to keep in mind is that looseness in the socket and extension will eat up torque from the impact wrench. Be sure all are tight.

 

[Schurkey]

Put a pressure gauge in-line AT THE INLET TO THE AIR TOOL. Let the impact rattle on the lug-nuts while you look at the pressure gauge.

You'd better have 90+ psi while the air tool is running. If not, you have not enough air pressure in the tank, a pressure regulator turned down too far, or the air plumbing is too restrictive.

When I had a little compressor, I removed the regulator and used 1/2" hose to assure that restriction was at a minimum.

 

[joe_padavano]

Two more thoughts. First, you DID ensure that the force-adjusting knob on the impact was set to maximum, right? Second, on my old C-man impact, there was a foam filter on the inlet inside the handle that eventually deteriorated and gummed up the inlet, causing a loss of performance. I was able to unscrew the inlet fitting, remove the foam, clean it up, and amazingly it worked fine again. Of course, that was before it wore out and I replaced it with the IR impact.

 

[Lassen Forge]

Do me a favor...

Look at the end of the lug nuts. If what you're breaking loose is on an older mopar, the ones on the... aw heck, I can't remember now... are Left Hand threads. The ends of the studs will be marked L. Maybe.

I had a 60 FuryII that had this little engineering trick from hell (what the He!! were they thinking??!!) , and the tire shop replaced the studs on that side with normal ones. After breaking 4 of them off.

Then get some Marvel Mystery Oil. Or better, Kroil (yes, it's expensive, but it is the cheapest liquid wrench youll ever buy). Hit your studs with this, let them sit, hit them again, let them sit, then...

Get the correct socket in 1/2 (or 3/4) inch and a breaker bar. That''s why they make such things. And use a torque wrench putting them back on. Tire shops use impacts because they're fast, but they also have a fun habit of tweaking brake rotors using them. Fubarred my '73 Mazda RX3 wagon's. TO where the brakes pulsed so bad it was f'n dangerous. After that I swore never to let some rookie swap my tires. (After I swore profusely at the tech, and the owner, who said it was somehow *my* fault they f'd up my rotors).

Oh yeah... your FLTT (Friendly Local Tool Truck, eg Matco, Snap-on, etc.) has these torque sockets that will "break loose" at the correct torque. If you decide to use air to swap tires (I don't blame you, I would!!) soend the few bucks to get the one that matches your lug nuts and vehicle specs. Cheaper than one set of rotors...

 

[Twisted Sid]

I would try changing the fittings from 1/4 to 3/8 and see what that does. They are cheap (look on ebay) and doing that will not hurt anything.
I just did this swap on my compressor and noticed a good improvement on most my air tools and my compressor is smaller then yours.

 

[cloud71]

I would try changing the fittings from 1/4 to 3/8 and see what that does. They are cheap (look on ebay) and doing that will not hurt anything.
I just did this swap on my compressor and noticed a good improvement on most my air tools and my compressor is smaller then yours.

That was my next question, seeing how I have 3/8 line, common sense says to use 3/8 fittings ?

And also what about getting a 25ft hose vs 50ft?

Also do they make 1/2in hose that works with 3/8 fittings?

Sorry for all the questions, I'm just trying to figure all this out.
Thankyou for everyone's help in this matter

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[ez-duzit]

Use the shortest hose that will reach your work; that will help. 1/4" is standard--no need for other. Your compressor is rated to be only barely adequate, under ideal conditions, like full voltage power supply, and pressure taken right at the compressor. When you pull the trigger on that impact driver, you'll see the line pressure drop 20-30 lbs, at the tool. This is easy to test.

 

[RossABQ]

...

But you don't need an impact wrench to remove lug nuts.

Exactly... it won't kill you to break them loose by hand.

Any chance you used the impact to torque them down, on the highest setting?

 

[Alexbn921]

The problem is not the compressor.
I have a 33 gallon craftsman compressor with the similar CFM ratings. It came with a craftsman 1/2 gun that would not take off lugnuts.

With my IR thunder gun, it will twist the studs off the car. I run it on the lowest settings and only 90psi.

 

[gordo9742000]

Correct me if I am wrong. Isnt the cfm rating when it running? So if the tank has a full head of pressure it should operate the gun if the gun is operating properly. Cfm rating should have nothing to do with it if the compressor isnt running until pressure drop and it kicks on. Although you do need enough cfm through the hose. Maybe im wrong. Just thinking.

 

[cloud71]

Barely adequate makes it sound like a wasted my money on this compressor.
I hope that isn't the case.

The only reason I didn't buy the 60 gallon was because it wasn't portable.
My shed where I keep compressor is 100ft give or take from driveway where I work on my vehicles.

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[gordo9742000]

Maybe I missed it but how old is the gun?

 

[driz]

I would try changing the fittings from 1/4 to 3/8 and see what that does. They are cheap (look on ebay) and doing that will not hurt anything.
I just did this swap on my compressor and noticed a good improvement on most my air tools and my compressor is smaller then yours.

Ditto. About the only thing you will regret is when you see the price of the fittings, absurd the last time I looked. If it was me I would check it with another compressor though before buying anything because it still should do a lot better than that with the 3/8" fittings. You might just have a gun that happened to come off the line as a dud too. Ya never know. Don't wait too long to check it out and let the warranty expire.

 

[RossABQ]

....
My shed where I keep compressor is 100ft give or take from driveway where I work on my vehicles.

So are you saying you have 100 ft of hose to the gun?

 

[cloud71]

The gun is about 3 years maybe 4 barely used.
I disassembled it couple years ago and re greased it thing it would help.

I have 50ft hose, I take the compressor to my driveway that's 100ft give or take away.

The 3/8 fittings will cost me 15 to 20 bucks altogether

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[Art From De Leon]

I think you have found the source of your problem, with the distance from your compressor and the small supply hose.

 

[cloud71]

OK this is my plan, first I guess I'm changing fittings to 3/8, hopefully that will do the job.

If that don't work I'm going to get a 25ft 3/8 hose.
If that don't work errr, I'm going to buy 1/2in hose.

If that don't work, take it all back, plus compressor , then lick my wounds till they heal and figure out what my next step is.

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[AP514]

1/4 inch line has enough volume to give you the little bit of CFM that impact uses ! !

Got a 10 spot that says it is the TOOL....

* Note * the righty tighty lefty loossy was to make sure you were turnning the correct way ..but really some are right hand turn..:O

 

[Daniel Dudley]

The problem is not the compressor.
I have a 33 gallon craftsman compressor with the similar CFM ratings. It came with a craftsman 1/2 gun that would not take off lugnuts.

With my IR thunder gun, it will twist the studs off the car. I run it on the lowest settings and only 90psi.

Well how interesting !

 

[Daniel Dudley]

Put a pressure gauge in-line AT THE INLET TO THE AIR TOOL. Let the impact rattle on the lug-nuts while you look at the pressure gauge.

You'd better have 90+ psi while the air tool is running. If not, you have not enough air pressure in the tank, a pressure regulator turned down too far, or the air plumbing is too restrictive.

When I had a little compressor, I removed the regulator and used 1/2" hose to assure that restriction was at a minimum.

Interesting.

 

[kenfain]

To the op, I had a similar set up with similar results. Mine worked, but it was marginal. Got tired of waiting on my noisy compressor to always catch up. Craigslist provided me with a 13 cfm. vintage Curtis unit. Then I found that the performance of the old gun was still not what I wanted. Bought a klutch 1/2 in. short frame from Northern. Works like I need it to. So I agree with those that say it's the impact. Might just need some work. Try giving it the hot oil treatment.

 

[volleyball]

3/8" fittings won't fit. You have 1/4" thread and need to stay with that. If you get milton V series couplers and fittings for the gun, hose and compressor.
I do question, do you use air tool oil before you start using the impact? 3 years of not, and it could be worn out.
The compressor is not the problem.
I just purchased a craftsman 1/2" 19.2v impact and it has way more power than my old rodac that has had little use. The rodac barely got off some of the lug nuts and the battery power unit zipped them off.

 

[Koken]

It is my understanding that an impact's maximum power is on loosening mode and not the tightening mode. Anyone who has lug nuts that loosen in reverse of normal, should remember that. If I am wrong, please advise.

OP - Break the lug nuts loose by hand (use a breaker bar or a pipe if need be) to ensure that they are not rusted on of have reverse threads. Then you can move onto other things. If you are running a long hose with that compressor, that will create a drop in pressure like others have stated. It is kind of like a sprinkler system. On long runs, you need to drop in pipe size to create pressure. Hold you finger over and open hose of water and it creates pressure and squirts farther. Who was the last person who put the lug nuts on? If it was a shop, they could have cross threaded the lug nut(s) on or used a more powerful gun. Let us know.

 

[ford33]

To get the lug nuts off at this point, get a proper fitting lug nut socket, a breaker bar and some penetrating oil and you provide the muscle. Once the immediate problem is solved then go fix the other issues related to the air tool.

Before blaming the tool, compressor, pipes, hoses, fittings, how about diagnosing the problem.

Install a small pressure gauge near the gun and see what pressure you are getting at the gun. Torque (force) to remove the lug nuts is related to pressure and has nothing to do with flow (volume). See the formula below. However, you need to maintain the pressure at the gun when it is running and that requires sufficient air flow (volume). You may generate high torque when you press the trigger but it quickly decreases due to insufficient volume of air to maintain the pressure.

You need to check if you are maintaining nearly 90 psi at the impact wrench when you press the trigger. If you are, then the lug nuts are torqued greater than your impact wrench ability to remove them. If pressure is not maintained, then your air flow is insufficient and you need to improve the flow from the compressor to the tool.

From the specification provided by you, the impact and compressor are matched well in size. The two questions are whether the lug nuts are torqued higher than the ability of the wrench to remove them and whether sufficient pressure is maintained at the impact wrench to achieve the rated torque. Get an answer to this and you have solved the problem.


Put the lug nuts on with a torque wrench to avoid the issue in the future.

Torque (in-lbs) = (PSI x (Displacement per revolution of the impact in cubic inches)) / 2 (3.14)

 

[dreamingmuscle]

OK this is my plan, first I guess I'm changing fittings to 3/8, hopefully that will do the job.

If that don't work I'm going to get a 25ft 3/8 hose.
If that don't work errr, I'm going to buy 1/2in hose.

If that don't work, take it all back, plus compressor , then lick my wounds till they heal and figure out what my next step is.

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I vote that the gun is bad. As stated above I've used my little 2 gallon finish nailing compressor to break lug nuts. I might get only one off and then have to wait for it to pump back up but it does do the job. That was done running the same hose you have. Maybe 25 foot of hose vs 50' though.

You might want to recheck your fittings. If you used thread sealing tape on them some of the tape might be clogging the system. Or worse broke off and got into your gun.

 

[bazar01]

OP, check the following;

1. Set the compressor pressure switch to get at least 125 psi.
2. Get an extension cord for the compressor to bring it closer to point of use.
3. Get a shorter hose enough to get to the point of use. (not the 50 ft hose)
4. Lube your impact with compressor oil.

I am using a 1/4-inch hose and fittings with no issue.
But I set my tank pressure at 130 psi.
I can break a 100 ft-lb lug nut with my IR impact.

 

[kf4zht]

oil the tool first, just squirt some marvel or air tool oil in the air inlet. I have seen impact guns have almost no power when dry. A little oil fixes them right up

I agree it probably isn't the compressor, unless the gauge is lying and the pressure switch is set too low.

The line length can be a problem. I would go grab some Milton V series fittings. The higher flow will help some, but the bigger difference is 1/4 and 3/8 and 1/2 all use the same coupler size. You can upgrade your hose to 1/2" but not need funky adapters off the tool. Northern carries them in stock. I don't run 1/4 hoses past 25 ft or 3/8 past 50 typically

Adding a pressure gauge at the gun will quickly diagnose the issue. CFM shouldn't matter. I have run an impact off a portable tank with 0 cfm long enough to brake 2-4 lugs loose. Either the gun is getting too much pressure lost in the hose/fittings or the gun is broken. No use can be worse for impacts than daily use, they rust inside and lose seal.