Need More Garage Circuit Capability

[galaxy]

Sorry guys, household A/ electrical is not my strongest area. Didn’t know what else to label this thread.

One mistake I made when I built my house was not being more specific and requesting enough electrical capacity for the garage circuit.

To the point, I cannot run more than one item at a time on my garage circuit; be it air compressor, shop vac, heater, etc, etc. Heaven forbid Christmas lights are plugged up (apparently outside outlets are on this circuit). I can’t even run my 1500w space heater on high with the overhead lights on. Literally zero multitasking.

What can be done to address this? How can I improve/upgrade this circuit?

I’m an excellent DIYer, and could handle the homework for some possible DIY simple upgrades. Or will it be more complex than that?

Tips, any advice, details greatly appreciated. Thanks guys.

 

[The Cobbler]

iif you have an easy path to run a larger circuit to the garage, add a sub panel & you're golden

 

[acer66]

iif you have an easy path to run a larger circuit to the garage, add a sub panel & you're golden

This, sounds like your garage is attached and where in relation to the garage is the main panel?
Is there a an easy path from the main panel to the garage via crawl space or attic?

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Sorry guys, household A/ electrical is not my strongest area. Didn’t know what else to label this thread.

One mistake I made when I built my house was not being more specific and requesting enough electrical capacity for the garage circuit.

To the point, I cannot run more than one item at a time on my garage circuit; be it air compressor, shop vac, heater, etc, etc. Heaven forbid Christmas lights are plugged up (apparently outside outlets are on this circuit). I can’t even run my 1500w space heater on high with the overhead lights on. Literally zero multitasking.

What can be done to address this? How can I improve/upgrade this circuit?

I’m an excellent DIYer, and could handle the homework for some possible DIY simple upgrades. Or will it be more complex than that?

Tips, any advice, details greatly appreciated. Thanks guys.

youre gonna have to give us quite a bit more info if you want specific help

is the garage attached or detached?

If attached, is there an open pathway from the main service panel or nearest subpanel that you can run either conduit or jacketed wire through?

open walls or closed walls?

what existing loads do you have on your main service?

is there breaker space available in your main service panel or subpanel?

Have any pics?

 

[galaxy]

Thanks guys...sorry, didn't know what all to provide...

is the garage attached or detached?

Attached

If attached, is there an open pathway from the main service panel or nearest subpanel that you can run either conduit or jacketed wire through?

Yes. Easily

open walls or closed walls?

Closed walls in the garage. Walls are completely finished. But the front wall against the house is easily accessible from the unfinished basement; this is where the box is

what existing loads do you have on your main service?

Not sure what this is

is there breaker space available in your main service panel or subpanel?

As in, more room to add additional breakers? Yes, plenty.

Have any pics?

What pics specifically do you need; the breaker panel? The garage?

 

[BillK]

Sounds like you need to add 2 or three dedicated circuits for the garage.
I would run one just for the space heater to plug into, 1500 watts is about all a single 120v circuit can deal with.

Same with the air compressor. I guess the compressor is also 120 volt ?

After that either another circuit with 4 or 5 spaced out receptacles will probably take care of it.

The biggest issue you are going to have is running the circuits to the walls that are not attached to the house. You will either have to run them up into the attic and then down through the walls to each receptacle or run them in conduit on the surface.

How about a picture of the whole garage standing in the garage door so we can see the layout ?

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Not sure what this is

What pics specifically do you need; the breaker panel? The garage?

The main service panel is the first panel after your meter or the panel with the meter in it, in the case of a meter main (mainly found in california).

If theres a disconnect at your meter, then you wont have a main service panel.

If you can take pics of your main service panel with the cover on and off, would be helpful...

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Sounds like you need to add 2 or three dedicated circuits for the garage.
I would run one just for the space heater to plug into, 1500 watts is about all a single 120v circuit can deal with.

Same with the air compressor. I guess the compressor is also 120 volt ?

After that either another circuit with 4 or 5 spaced out receptacles will probably take care of it.

The biggest issue you are going to have is running the circuits to the walls that are not attached to the house. You will either have to run them up into the attic and then down through the walls to each receptacle or run them in conduit on the surface.

How about a picture of the whole garage standing in the garage door so we can see the layout ?

It may be easier and less labor intensive to just run a feeder and put a subpanel in the garage instead of running branch circuits. since its attached, OP could use SER without conduit.

 

[Terry D]

I agree, the sub panel is the way to go. Its always nice to have some extra power for the future. What size is your main service to the house. Can you post some pictures with the panel door open and as long as you feel comfortable, a picture with the cover off.

 

[Viper98912]

If you don't need subpanel, then don't add one. I would just think about what you're looking to do, and add a circuit to your existing panel from there.

For example, are you looking to just have extra juice for some simple plug ins? If so, just add a 15 amp breaker and a few outlets on that 14 gauge circuit.

If you need more than that (for example, running a heater while using a drill), go with (2) 15 amp breakers. Or if you don't need that much, just make it a 20 amp 12 gauge circuit.

No need to add a subpanel if all you're looking to do is run a few extra simple devices.

 

[Innovate1]

What all do you want to be able to run in the garage at the same time? If you just need a couple 20A circuits you probably don't need a subpanel and that's a bit simpler. If you want to do more a subpanel is a good route and not much more work. Also lets you reset a breaker without going to the main panel.

 

[billconner]

I agree with adding several circuits to solve existing needs BUT the likelihood of an EV someday seems high for all of us, and for that future load a branch panel makes sense. How far ahead do you want to plan for versus how tight is budget?

 

[wyliesdiesels]

What all do you want to be able to run in the garage at the same time? If you just need a couple 20A circuits you probably don't need a subpanel and that's a bit simpler. If you want to do more a subpanel is a good route and not much more work. Also lets you reset a breaker without going to the main panel.

he wants to run at least the lights, air compressor and heater at the same time. and possibly other equipment as well.

thats at least 3 additional circuits.

Running a feeder and subpanel would be cheaper, in terms of time labor and materials in the long run, vs running a few circuits here and then another few circuits down the road when he decides he needs more....

 

[Innovate1]

he wants to run at least the lights, air compressor and heater at the same time. and possibly other equipment as well.

thats at least 3 additional circuits.

Running a feeder and subpanel would be cheaper, in terms of time labor and materials in the long run, vs running a few circuits here and then another few circuits down the road when he decides he needs more....

Maybe. He lists St. Louis as his location. Depending on exactly which jurisdiction he is in and if he is going to worry about permits some areas allow homeowners to do branch circuits but not panels (which includes subpanels) - I took the AHJs test for homeowner work but decided to stay in an area where I can do it all myself. Doing branch circuits themselves vs. hiring someone to put in a subpanel is going to be a big difference in cost and the subpanel is not going to be cheaper. A subpanel is a great way to go and probably preferred for most in this crowd. I am just saying he could go either way and there are lots of factors we don't know.

 

[Innovate1]

I agree with adding several circuits to solve existing needs BUT the likelihood of an EV someday seems high for all of us, and for that future load a branch panel makes sense. How far ahead do you want to plan for versus how tight is budget?

If you are going to plan for an EV then the size of the existing main panel could be a factor. Others have asked what size main panel.

 

[mike93lx]

Subpanel. Think about what you want to run, including some future proofing and then call some electricians.

I bet a 60a sub would do you quite well. 12 space main breaker panel.

 

[Noltz]

I was in a very similar situation. Garage circuit was 15A and fed the outside lights & plugs. Not enough for 2 power tools at once. Compressor plugged in and shop vac, lathe, or drill press would blow the breaker. I added a 15A circuit but I should have added 2, putting the compressor on one by itself. I like my setup now because the compressor is outside on a switched outlet, but I goofed and the lathe / shopvac is still on the same circuit. I must still shut the compressor off before using the other equipment. So if you're going to run branch circuits bring up at least 3; Compressor, Heat, and tools. Consider heat might work better with 240v.

 

[mike93lx]

I was in a very similar situation. Garage circuit was 15A and fed the outside lights & plugs. Not enough for 2 power tools at once. Compressor plugged in and shop vac, lathe, or drill press would blow the breaker. I added a 15A circuit but I should have added 2, putting the compressor on one by itself. I like my setup now because the compressor is outside on a switched outlet, but I goofed and the lathe / shopvac is still on the same circuit. I must still shut the compressor off before using the other equipment. So if you're going to run branch circuits bring up at least 3; Compressor, Heat, and tools. Consider heat might work better with 240v.

Bringing 3 circuits instead of a sub is kind of silly, IMO.

 

[galaxy]

Thanks guys. You guys have been great and provided some great thoughts and some great questions to ask. Also provided enough info to realize this may be more than I want to really tackle. But now I know how to proceed and ask for what I want.

 

[Noltz]

Bringing 3 circuits instead of a sub is kind of silly, IMO.

Oh, I dunno. He answered Wylie that he's got plenty of space in his main. A 100m roll of 14/2 romex and 3 breakers is going to be cheaper than a three #6 and a ground to a sub panel and he'd still need to do his branch circuits. If he's planning on electric heat or 240v toys or electric car charging I'd agree and save for 100A service in the garage.

 

[mike93lx]

Oh, I dunno. He answered Wylie that he's got plenty of space in his main. A 100m roll of 14/2 romex and 3 breakers is going to be cheaper than a three #6 and a ground to a sub panel and he'd still need to do his branch circuits. If he's planning on electric heat or 240v toys or electric car charging I'd agree and save for 100A service in the garage.

50 cents a foot for 14/2, 90 cents for 6/4 AL SER or 1.50 for 2/4. Subpanels are cheap.

Seems like basically a wash to me, but to each his own.

 

[The Cobbler]

sometimes cheapest is not the best . a little more now can add great flexibility at less expense down the road

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Oh, I dunno. He answered Wylie that he's got plenty of space in his main. A 100m roll of 14/2 romex and 3 breakers is going to be cheaper than a three #6 and a ground to a sub panel and he'd still need to do his branch circuits. If he's planning on electric heat or 240v toys or electric car charging I'd agree and save for 100A service in the garage.

youre not factoring in labor to that. easier to run one piece of SER than 3 individual branch circuits. only to realize you need 2 more circuits and shouldve ran a feeder in the first place

having a subpanel adds capacity for the future and makes running the branch circuits a breeze

 

[Terry D]

Maybe. He lists St. Louis as his location. Depending on exactly which jurisdiction he is in and if he is going to worry about permits some areas allow homeowners to do branch circuits but not panels (which includes subpanels) - I took the AHJs test for homeowner work but decided to stay in an area where I can do it all myself. Doing branch circuits themselves vs. hiring someone to put in a subpanel is going to be a big difference in cost and the subpanel is not going to be cheaper. A subpanel is a great way to go and probably preferred for most in this crowd. I am just saying he could go either way and there are lots of factors we don't know.

I am from St. Louis. The homeowner test that the City of St. Louis and St. Louis County offers will allow you to install a sub panel and less. So you could install a sub panel and also wire the garage. Just cant do a main service. At least that is how it used to be.

 

[alfredeneuman]

So you could install a sub panel and also wire the garage. Just cant do a main service.

That's the way it is here too. A licensed electrical contractor is the only one able to pull a permit for a service change (it's in the PoCo's rules)

 

[Innovate1]

I am from St. Louis. The homeowner test that the City of St. Louis and St. Louis County offers will allow you to install a sub panel and less. So you could install a sub panel and also wire the garage. Just cant do a main service. At least that is how it used to be.

That's not what they said about a year ago at the county. I passed the test and they seemed reasonable to deal with (as opposed to the rest of the building department which was terrible) but they said it only was for branch circuits and at least the way they defined that I wasn't allowed to do any breaker panels or feed wires to them. I was planning to have a large detached garage with sub panel and was told I wasn't allowed to do the garage subpanel. It varies a lot for outlying areas. Some places homeowners can do anything and just need to pass inspection.

 

[Terry D]

That's not what they said about a year ago at the county. I passed the test and they seemed reasonable to deal with (as opposed to the rest of the building department which was terrible) but they said it only was for branch circuits and at least the way they defined that I wasn't allowed to do any breaker panels or feed wires to them. I was planning to have a large detached garage with sub panel and was told I wasn't allowed to do the garage subpanel. It varies a lot for outlying areas. Some places homeowners can do anything and just need to pass inspection.

Like I said, maybe it has changed

 

[wyliesdiesels]

That's the way it is here too. A licensed electrical contractor is the only one able to pull a permit for a service change (it's in the PoCo's rules)

Totally different up north

Homeowner can pull permits for even service changes... and PoCo doesnt bat an eye...