Need new 2 ton house heat pump - advice needed

[mikec35]

I have an 1100 sq.ft. house that had a 2 ton York heat pump that just died. It was probably 30 years old. The air handler is in a tight crawl space with a small opening and where they will have to move some ductwork out of the way to get the new unit in. They'll have to drag the unit about 25-30 feet in the crawl space. I have a quote for $4200 installed for a Carrier 14 seer, $5800 for a Carrier 16 seer (can get a $350 energy rebate.) I'm currently renting the house to my kids and don't think I'll keep it more than a couple of years. Trying to figure out which route I should go and if these are good prices. If I got the 16 seer would I notice that much of an energy savings over the 14 seer? My old unit is probably a 10 seer so either one would be a savings. I'm in Western NC, temperature is pretty moderate here. Any advice/thoughs? Thank you.

 

[metlmunchr]

If the old unit is 30 years old then its likely an 8 SEER. The 14 SEER unit will give you big savings, but if it were me, I wouldn't spend another $1250 (after the rebate) to go to the 16 SEER unit as the payback would be way on out there in the future.

I'm in the Asheville area. My house is about 2150 sq ft heated, and I have a 3 1/2 ton 12 SEER heat pump. House built in 74, so its not a new super sealed and insulated house. Highest power bill this past winter was $259 (Duke) and in the spring and fall when not heating or cooling it typically runs around $110, so about $150 for heat.

Assuming similar house construction, I'd guess the heating portion of the bill with a 2 ton 14 SEER unit would run around $70-$75 when mine was $150. At that sort of cost, going to a 16 SEER unit might save $15/mo, but more likely $10 to $12.

If the old unit is 8 SEER (that's what most of them were in the late 80's), simply going to the 14 is going to save something in the $45 to $55 range per month in the winter, depending on temps. Spending another $1250 for an additional 10-12 bucks per month is sorta diminishing returns.

With a heat pump, the most important thing for them to understand during the heating season is to set the thermostat and leave it alone. If you turn it back to like 62 at nite and then push it up to 68 in the morning, it will do the majority of the warm up via the resistance heat which costs you about 3X as much per BTU as compared to heat produced by a modern heat pump in the temperatures we normally have around here.

 

[mikec35]

Good info! Thank you. I think they are giving me a good price either way, I was just hoping the unit would last a little longer so it would be the new owners issue!

 

[38Chevy454]

I agree with MM, your payback period is longer than the time you plan to keep the house. The difference between your current system and the 14 SEER is going to be significant. Save the money, go with the 14 SEER. Buyer will not give you any extra for the 16 vs 14 unit.

 

[Jim greengo]

I agree with MM, your payback period is longer than the time you plan to keep the house. The difference between your current system and the 14 SEER is going to be significant. Save the money, go with the 14 SEER. Buyer will not give you any extra for the 16 vs 14 unit.

 

[99LeCouch]

Are they doing a Manual J heat and cooling load calculation to see if 2 tons is overkill? 1100 sf with okay insulation and air sealing might be able to go with a 1.5 ton unit. The smaller unit would dehumidify better.

 

[ant.foste]

Go with the cheaper unit for the reasons mentioned above. The installers cost of equipment is likely in the $1800-2500 range, depending on which air handler they're using. I have a Lennox on my house, and I'll replace it with another Lennox or a Carrier when the time comes.

 

[mikec35]

I think I have decided on the 14 seer Carrier. I’m sure it’s a fair amount of labor since it’s going in a tight crawl space, so $4200 installed seems like a good price. Thanks for the replies.

 

[mikec35]

Are they doing a Manual J heat and cooling load calculation to see if 2 tons is overkill? 1100 sf with okay insulation and air sealing might be able to go with a 1.5 ton unit. The smaller unit would dehumidify better.

They are quoting the same size unit that was in place. I told them I may close the carport in and that would add an extra 350 sqft. We feel this is a good size for my house. It is a 1973 home, it does have new windows and sprayed in loose attic insulation, not sure what's in the walls.

 

[99LeCouch]

Hmm, you did mention that the air handler is a royal pain to get to. If they are the only company that bid the job, yeah, stuck with what they are willing to install. And, if 2 tons worked, it should still work.

Did they say how they are going to redo the moved ductwork?

 

[mikec35]

They inspected the unit prior to bidding the job. I know these folks so I am comfortable with them doing the work, I know they'll back it up if there is a problem. I had a quote from an independent about a year ago that was 5K. I realize the unit itself is probably costing them 2K, the rest is labor and materials.

 

[metlmunchr]

I agree the price is good. Several in the area would quote that 14 SEER job at $6K.

And 38 Chevy is right too. The fact that the system is 2 or 3 years old will be a good selling point worth some extra $$ down the road, but the additional money you'd get for a 16 over a 14 at sale time probably wouldn't buy a meal at McDonalds.

 

[gamp945]

They are quoting the same size unit that was in place. I told them I may close the carport in and that would add an extra 350 sqft. We feel this is a good size for my house. It is a 1973 home, it does have new windows and sprayed in loose attic insulation, not sure what's in the walls.

30 years ago it was standard practice to "oversize" HVAC systems. In fact, in my experience this is still standard practice because it makes the HVAC company a bit more money and it makes intuitive sense to customers (bigger is better). Also, contractors are much more worried about undersizing a system than oversizing. Perhaps counterintuitively though, you want your system to have run times as long as possible - on the hottest and coldest days of the year, you want it running virtually full-time. A correctly sized unit drastically improves occupant comfort and dehumidifies the home so much better.

My guess is that a 2-ton unit is too large for an 1100 sqft home, and perhaps even oversized for a 1450 sqft home in your climate. You won't know for sure unless the HVAC company acts professional and does a proper manual-J. My guess (which is what the HVAC company is also doing right now) is that a 1.5-ton unit is closer to the correct size and costs less money. I wouldn't spend $4K on a guess.

Just my 2-cents as a non-pro that has been extremely frustrated with the so-called pros that I've met.

 

[Falcon67]

We went 14 SEER when we put in our heat pump a few years ago. Didn't see much if any payback on the higher numbers vs the extra cost. No state, federal or utility rebates were available.

 

[drifter_r6]

AZ here... we use the heck out of our A/C's during the summers but I'm pretty frugal due to the E costs. I had ours replaced a couple years ago, went from 8?? to 14 SEER and the savings were minimal. The past two summers have been relatively mild. Temp efficiency, yes "feels" cooler in the house and doesn't run as long.

 

[wyliebrent]

Always ask to see if he will work with you on the price for the 16 seer. In my area I know his cost difference is only $500 ish and install is a wash.