Need opinions on heat

[Ron_J]

I'm new here, but will probably be here often as I am planning a garage in another couple months.

Here is my plan...30x50 10' walls in Central PA. I am planning on the front half (30x25) as auto work space, and split the back half between a metal working/welding set up and wood working shop.

I know 10' is on the low side for a lift, but I think I am going to plan for a 2 post lift.

I doubt I will be in it daily thru the winter, and am struggling with the idea of heating it all the time. I'm thinking about keeping it at 45 or 50 and just bump it up if I am going to be in there working. I'm looking for opinions on radiant vs hot air. Unfortunately I don't have natural gas available, so I would be burning propane (current house heat) and oil, or electric if radiant.

Anyone have any recommendations?

 

[theoldwizard1]

Radiant, in floor, heating is by far the most comfortable. Expensive to install. Cost of operation depends on the fuel source and how well you insulated. Expensive to add cooling.

Forced air is cheaper to install, but the cheapest operational cost is with natural gas.

Mini-split heat pumps are not cheap to install, but are very cost effective to operate. The bonus is their cost includes A/C. You could install a unit that has 2 air handlers, or two separate units (more expensive in some ways, cheaper in other). "Buyer beware" on mini-splits ! Some do not heat well below freezing or use a electric resistance strip (very expensive to operate).

People think mini-splits are fairly "new" but they have been used in other parts of the world for many years. In some other countries, Mitsubishi sell a system that does BOTH in floor radiant heating and has a traditional air handler. They use the same compressor !


What ever you choose remember

"You pay for insulation once, you pay for the energy to heat/cool your building every time the thermostat calls for it !"

 

[finn]

We have propane radiant plus a mini split heat pump in the house. In the spring and fall we use the heat pump to take the chill out in the morning and evening, but when winter sets in winter go to propane because our electric rates are so high (.24/kWh).

The garage ( my original shop) is set up for radiant, but I never bought the boiler because it didn’t make economic sense for the number of hours I am in there. I usually put a fire in the wood stove for a couple of hours to keep the slab above freezing, supplemented by a propane hanging heater if the temperature drops below fifteen degrees or so.

My shop is 32’x75’ plus office and bathroom and has radiant with a propane boiler. The boiler is a 96% unit, which I installed in January because the oil boiler was inefficient and oversized. I keep the temp in the low to mid forties and bump it to the sixties with a 75k hanging propane heater when I am working, usually four hours five or six days per week.

I topped the tank twice since I installed the boiler, at about 165 gallons of propane each time, and I ordered propane this week for my summer fill. Looks like it will take another 125 gallons, based on the gage reading.

My new boiler cost just over $4000.

Hanging heaters run less than $400.

The building has 16’ ceilings and is well insulated.

 

[ripperd]

For only occasional use, the cost/benefit heavily favors a gas/propane powered unit heater. Significantly cheaper to install, similar ongoing operating costs, and faster recovery and warm up time. It is not nearly as comfortable as in-floor heat though.

I would definitely recommend you insulate well though, that will be beneficial all the time.

 

[rwa2004]

I am in almost your same situation, in Western PA.

My initial plan for maintaining a low heat through the winter is to use a hot water heater, circulation pump, and radiator/baseboard. In my case a gas hot water heater. A hot water heater is about the most efficient boiler possible if you do not need high temperature heat.

I want to put in a mini-split mostly for controlling humidity through the summer because I want a small machine shop too. I may use the mini-split for some heat.

If you are going all electric - I would get the mini split (electric heat with a 3x multiplier).
If you use propane - I would maintain low temperature with a hot water heater and crank of a reznor when you want it.

 

[Buckgnarly]

Radiant tube, ceiling not floor.

 

[Ron_J]

Thanks all. I am leaning towards the hot air, but install the insulation and pex in the floor for future use (just in case).

 

[Bert_]

Radiant tube, ceiling not floor.

They are great, instant heat, cheap to run. Definatly more comfortable than forced air. 10' ceiling is a little low for one though

 

[theoldwizard1]

Radiant tube, ceiling not floor.

Not the same comfort level. If your feet are warm, the rest of you is warm.

 

[Buckgnarly]

Not the same comfort level. If your feet are warm, the rest of you is warm.

Awfully damn close, my floor is never cold even in -20F. IR heats the floor almost as well as conduction from within. Quicker recovery time too if you do not heat to working temp at all times, plus the 1k cost of unit was WAY cheaper than in floor.

I do have 14' ceilings though, so as mentioned 10' is pushing some units. Never understood why ceiling tube heaters never get much attention, other than minimum heights. They recover way faster than slab and heat objects like slab at a much cheaper install cost and way easier install.

 

[6768rogues]

I use Reznor hanging gas furnaces. I have natural gas for two of my buildings but one had propane. The furnaces are not expensive, they heat well, if you turn up the heat they respond quickly, they are up and not exposed to damage, and they take up zero floor space.
When I built the building at my house I considered radiant floor heat but used the Reznor. Now the kids are grown and we are retired, and we go the FL for 3 months or so in the winter. I am glad that I do not have a boiler and radiant piping to think about, if the Reznor has an issue the building can freeze and so what. So far, the Reznors have been bullet proof reliable. All I do is every couple of years open them up, clean the flame sensor, blow out the tubing with compressed air, and close them up.

 

[finn]

I use Reznor hanging gas furnaces. I have natural gas for two of my buildings but one had propane. The furnaces are not expensive, they heat well, if you turn up the heat they respond quickly, they are up and not exposed to damage, and they take up zero floor space.
When I built the building at my house I considered radiant floor heat but used the Reznor. Now the kids are grown and we are retired, and we go the FL for 3 months or so in the winter. I am glad that I do not have a boiler and radiant piping to think about, if the Reznor has an issue the building can freeze and so what. So far, the Reznors have been bullet proof reliable. All I do is every couple of years open them up, clean the flame sensor, blow out the tubing with compressed air, and close them up.

Being away for part of the winter is an issue with me, too. I could add antifreeze to the system, but that reduces the heat transfer rate, and, thus, increases the radiant operating cost further.

I just set the hanging heater thermostat a little lower than the boiler thermostat, and hope for the best when i’m gone.