To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

? Need recommendation for low THD Generator ?

Travinsky

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 4, 2014
Messages
233
Location
Miami
I have been looking online for a week but it's not easy to find a good generator that I can use for learning how to use my 220v Hobart 190 MIG and also use to safely run business computers and a wide format 44" printer when losing power during the summer hurricane seasons.

Can anyone recommend a generator with 6000+ running watts that also has THD under 5%? Budget is $1200 shipped. Thanks
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!
Joined
Jul 24, 2016
Messages
3,371
Second that. We bought a Honda 3000IE (DC with inverter) and it was at least double that. You'd be hard pressed to get anything used for that. Unless you have a friend or family member that wants to give you one.
 

Bretny

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 31, 2017
Messages
3,918
Location
Dutchess county NY
$1200 for what your asking is about 3k under what you need to spend. Look into the mep802 or mep803 if you want a solid industrial grade generator that will out last you...there also a prety good price for what your getting. There all american.
 

rlitman

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 18, 2010
Messages
24,578
Location
Long Island
I have been looking online for a week but it's not easy to find a good generator that I can use for learning how to use my 220v Hobart 190 MIG and also use to safely run business computers and a wide format 44" printer when losing power during the summer hurricane seasons.

Can anyone recommend a generator with 6000+ running watts that also has THD under 5%? Budget is $1200 shipped. Thanks

The THDV on your islanded power network will be directly related to the THDI drawn by your equipment. If your equipment has high harmonic current, then you will see bad voltage distortion. If you're worried about distortion, you must stop it at its source: your LOADS, and don't worry so much about the generator as the source of distortion.

However, maybe this will explain a little about why distortion is seen when on generator: The amount of THDV that will be seen as caused by THDI in the load is dependent on your system's subtransient reactance. i.e. the larger the power source, the smaller the voltage distortion will be in relation to the harmonic current. Also, harmonics created in your equipment get passed through the utility transformer and out, while a generator reflects them.

To make an analogy, scream in a stadium, and it won't sound loud. Do the same in a phone booth and your ears will be ringing.

So, now I need to ask, what exactly is the reasoning about your 5% THD target? Computers with switching power supplies will generally happily run on 15% THD and worse. UPS will often force you to battery above something like 10% THD though, as it may have trouble running the inverter at capacity with higher distortion. Especially since inverter current is HIGHLY harmonic (usually I see around 40% harmonic current before filtration).

That welder is transformer based, so it shouldn't be too awful. But you might get distortion issues if your generator is sized too small with it. I don't know enough about your specific printer to comment.
 

rlitman

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 18, 2010
Messages
24,578
Location
Long Island
$1200 for what your asking is about 3k under what you need to spend. Look into the mep802 or mep803 if you want a solid industrial grade generator that will out last you...there also a prety good price for what your getting. There all american.

Oh good grief. He doesn't need a military generator. And in any case, those are three phase units. Those will give all sorts of harmonic issues when run on single phase. BTDT.

The inverter generator idea is a good one, as inverter generators by their nature, include active harmonic filtration. But they're also WAY out of the stated budget.
 

mike93lx

ALLIANCE MEMBER
Joined
Dec 9, 2013
Messages
37,362
Location
Richmond, VA
The only large, inexpensive inverter generator I know of is one from Briggs and Stratton for about 1400. No personal experience and reviews are not fantastic, but if it is the only option in your budget, might be worth a try.
 

Raisedonadeere

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 31, 2017
Messages
436
Location
Central KY
I have a Honda 3000IS, and it has been nice for so many things, home emergency power, RV and occasionally running power tools on a some ones field project. So when my son nearby got a Hobart welder 120v, I thought swell I can take care of a few things I need to do handily because I have a generator permanently in my truck but sadly after doing some research I found that most likely it would fail to keep the welder happy and probably blow the generator inverter even though the welder was well within the current capacity of the generator. I seem to recall the solution was to have the inverter generator be more than double the rated load from the welder.

Sorry I cant remember more of the technical explanation behind.
 

seber

Well-known member
Joined
May 31, 2016
Messages
4,190
Location
Deep East Tx.
Onan has made 6500 watt generators for motor homes for decades. They can be found used at almost any location that scraps RV equipment pretty cheap. I use one to run my welder without any trouble. I think I paid $400 some years ago.
 
OP
T

Travinsky

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 4, 2014
Messages
233
Location
Miami
You'd be hard pressed to get anything used for that. Unless you have a friend or family member that wants to give you one.

F&F usually come to me and borrow my stuff, for some reason when i ask for something they are never around... :lol_hitti

To make an analogy, scream in a stadium, and it won't sound loud. Do the same in a phone booth and your ears will be ringing...So, now I need to ask, what exactly is the reasoning about your 5% THD target?

Thanks for the dummy version I am technically challenged and was average HS student - not valedictorian. Wife's family designs and prints stuff using photoshop and Epson 9890 printer(s) but usually only one at a time. When Hurricane season is in its prime (Aug-Oct) it's when their business is at its peak for Christmas pre-orders.

The part about the welder is due to my prepper mentality and want ability to build/secure stuff just in case.

Reason about the THD is from reading several reviews and comments about damaging the computers and electronics. Would a Furman line output conditioner help or is that not related? I have one for my home stereo and projector that isn't used much. Thx

The only large, inexpensive inverter generator I know of is one from Briggs and Stratton for about 1400. No personal experience and reviews are not fantastic, but if it is the only option in your budget, might be worth a try.

Is this the one:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Briggs-...h-Briggs-and-Stratton-Engine-030675/301871650


So then is it better to get 2 separate gennys?

1. Excellent/Honda quality 1,000-2,000 watt inverter model for the computer (700w), 27" 4k monitor (?W), Epson printer (180w) while printing, plus a 32" lcd tv (?W) connected to window antenna.

2. Average/cheaper quality 6,000 watt (with less bells and whistles i.e. electric start) for the garage 220v tools but also use it to run the fridge, freezer, toaster oven, portable a/c etc? thx
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

mike93lx

ALLIANCE MEMBER
Joined
Dec 9, 2013
Messages
37,362
Location
Richmond, VA
Two would also give flexibility to have something portable. All a matter of how often you need it. I have a big, loud 240v generator that runs my whole house, but it weighs 200+ lbs. if something changed and I needed a small, quiet one, a 2kw inverter would be nice to have for sure
 

bpjr

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 2, 2013
Messages
554
Location
Florida east coast
Northern Tool sell their house brand Powerhorse generators that are advertised as less than 5%. I bought one last yr and ran everything except the house ac. All electronics worked and no glitches or damage over a continuous 2 week period after a hurricane.
 

rlitman

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 18, 2010
Messages
24,578
Location
Long Island
F&F usually come to me and borrow my stuff, for some reason when i ask for something they are never around... :lol_hitti



Thanks for the dummy version I am technically challenged and was average HS student - not valedictorian. Wife's family designs and prints stuff using photoshop and Epson 9890 printer(s) but usually only one at a time. When Hurricane season is in its prime (Aug-Oct) it's when their business is at its peak for Christmas pre-orders.

The part about the welder is due to my prepper mentality and want ability to build/secure stuff just in case.

Reason about the THD is from reading several reviews and comments about damaging the computers and electronics. Would a Furman line output conditioner help or is that not related? I have one for my home stereo and projector that isn't used much. Thx



Is this the one:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Briggs-...h-Briggs-and-Stratton-Engine-030675/301871650


So then is it better to get 2 separate gennys?

1. Excellent/Honda quality 1,000-2,000 watt inverter model for the computer (700w), 27" 4k monitor (?W), Epson printer (180w) while printing, plus a 32" lcd tv (?W) connected to window antenna.

2. Average/cheaper quality 6,000 watt (with less bells and whistles i.e. electric start) for the garage 220v tools but also use it to run the fridge, freezer, toaster oven, portable a/c etc? thx

The best protection you can do for your computers (particularly during hurricane season) is to add a whole house surge suppressor (SPD), and to make sure your panels are properly grounded. Surges break stuff indiscriminately.

A line conditioner filters high frequency noise. Useful to clean up analog video or audio signals, but not related to harmonic distortion, which for the most part will be at 180 and 300 hz.

Most modern computer equipment doesn't care that much about harmonics or power quality in general. Look at your power supply sticker. Lots of stuff today will state 100-250V 50/60hz. Power supplies are often made to work on any power grid in the world with just a change of the plug, and this sort of stuff will work with any generator.

The exception to this is electronics designed by companies that have no competence in the field. I've heard reports of electronics in high efficiency boilers for example being damaged by non-inverter generator power. Other times, stuff won't work on generator, but will be fine when utility returns. I used to have a TV like that.

If you have your computer plugged into a UPS, THAT might have problems with your generator. I've seen a lot of UPS that will switch to battery when plugged into a generator, because of the voltage harmonics.

So, if you don't mind restarting your computer when you start (and stop) the generator, a computer shouldn't be a worry.

Fridges and toasters draw a lot of power you need to take into consideration, but they're not "bad". A microwave oven however is VERY bad. That will create all sorts of power noise. I'd be concerned with any inverter air conditioners too (most mini-splits today). Basically, variable speed AC motors that are inverter driven cause a lot of harmonic noise.

On another note, I HIGHLY doubt that computer actually draws 700W. I use computers at work that use that much power. They're not something you'd find in most homes. Most likely, it's using only a fraction of that.

As for electrical noise from the welder, if you're in SHTF mode, and NEED to weld something right now, maybe just unplug the computer. But in any case, you won't be welding much off a 2000W inverter generator. Unless you decide that this is the time to invest in some oxy-acetylene... Because, in the spirit of this site, I am required to suggest buying more tools.

Two would also give flexibility to have something portable. All a matter of how often you need it. I have a big, loud 240v generator that runs my whole house, but it weighs 200+ lbs. if something changed and I needed a small, quiet one, a 2kw inverter would be nice to have for sure

Pros of a small inverter:
More flexibility, and portability. Also, fuel savings. Potentially quieter. Easier to put away when you're done with it.

Cons:
Shorter run time, unless you get an extended run-time kit that uses an external tank. Also these tiny engines need more frequent oil changes.
 
Last edited:

ddawg16

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 11, 2008
Messages
21,005
Location
S. California
Run the computers off a UPS. Any decent one, like APC will have lots of filtering...and isolate your computers from the noise of a generator.
 

theoldwizard1

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 22, 2011
Messages
43,076
Location
SE MI
Run the computers off a UPS. Any decent one, like APC will have lots of filtering...and isolate your computers from the noise of a generator.

The first half of your statement is correct. The second half is not. The cheap APC units you get from Best Buy really are very poor in this area. If you really want "clean" power you want a double conversion online UPS. $$$$$
 

ddawg16

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 11, 2008
Messages
21,005
Location
S. California
The first half of your statement is correct. The second half is not. The cheap APC units you get from Best Buy really are very poor in this area. If you really want "clean" power you want a double conversion online UPS. $$$$$

You think I would go to Best Buy for a UPS? NFW.
CDW
 

rlitman

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 18, 2010
Messages
24,578
Location
Long Island
The first half of your statement is correct. The second half is not. The cheap APC units you get from Best Buy really are very poor in this area. If you really want "clean" power you want a double conversion online UPS. $$$$$



Exactly. APC doesn’t offer double conversion in any desktop sized units. That option starts in the Symmetra series.

An APC SmartUPS offers NOTHING in the way of harmonic filtration. Whether you get it at CDW or Best Buy, or wherever.
 
OP
T

Travinsky

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 4, 2014
Messages
233
Location
Miami
The best protection you can do for your computers (particularly during hurricane season) is to add a whole house surge suppressor (SPD).

If you have your computer plugged into a UPS, THAT might have problems with your generator. I've seen a lot of UPS that will switch to battery when plugged into a generator, because of the voltage harmonics.

So, if you don't mind restarting your computer when you start (and stop) the generator, a computer shouldn't be a worry.

On another note, I HIGHLY doubt that computer actually draws 700W.

... Because, in the spirit of this site, I am required to suggest buying more tools.;)

Have a whole house SPD and UPS connected to everything (computers, PJ, stereo, all TVs, but direct lighting strike fried $15k worth of electronics including wall oven in my home last August. I don't carry proper home insurance to cover these things so I have slowly been getting stuff repaired, though some have warranties which have helped.

The 700w is because I had 2 computers but one of the mobos and PSU was fried so I pieced together a working computer from the 2 and it has a 650w power supply. I don't know how they work, I just watch youtube and plug things together so you're most probably right but just thought I'd put it out there. ha-ha

Run the computers off a UPS. Any decent one, like APC will have lots of filtering...and isolate your computers from the noise of a generator.

This seems to contradict the above in RED, but what do I know.
 
OP
T

Travinsky

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 4, 2014
Messages
233
Location
Miami
Northern Tool sell their house brand Powerhorse generators that are advertised as less than 5%. I bought one last yr and ran everything except the house ac. All electronics worked and no glitches or damage over a continuous 2 week period after a hurricane.

I only have a Home Depot credit card that offers me 0% for 2 years so I've been reading more reviews and will be getting the Ryobi 2300 watt inverter for $599.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Ryobi-B...gital-Inverter-Generator-RYI2300BTA/300347426

I have to narrow my choices for a 6000-7000 watt genny to run everything else (minus the HVAC) and the 220v tools.

We lose power every year ranging from 1 to 17 days so I like to be ready. The bigger one will get more use later when Miller and Lincoln come out with a MP AC/DC rig to compete with Esab and Everlast. It's just a hobby for me but let's see how long it will be before F&F come looking to borrow it - - - not this time.:evil:
 

gfan8484

New member
Joined
Dec 29, 2022
Messages
1
However, maybe this will explain a little about why distortion is seen when on generator: The amount of THDV that will be seen as caused by THDI in the load is dependent on your system's subtransient reactance. i.e. the larger the power source, the smaller the voltage distortion will be in relation to the harmonic current. Also, harmonics created in your equipment get passed through the utility transformer and out, while a generator reflects them.

I have seen poor THD problems in generator transient response to large non-linear load (e.g. microwave oven) turn on transitions. The problems happened even with an inverter generator which I would have thought would have prevented such problems. I assumed it's all due to the relatively high impedance (related to subtransient reactance?) of generators since I don't see the problem with a low frequency battery inverter.
 
Last edited:
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!
Top Bottom