Need some advice here guys (long)

[Firebird71]

As some of you may have read I'm in the process of starting construction of a garage/ shop at my home. Slabs been done for awhile now.. 20x30 shop.. Shop will be 30ft long and 20 ft wide. Best I can do with the land and slab available.
Planning on doing this in stages doing a little at a time..
Went to a few of my local lumber places today in preparation for getting some wood to start constructing the first wall this weekend. And I'm in the country so no city codes to follow

1. Height. I had planned on using 10 ft wall but on the side of the house where the shop will be is my power line to the house. And it hangs pretty low there only about 15 ft from the ground to the cable.. I could have the cable moved but that will require me to move my weathered and get a new meter loop.. Mine us not up to the new county code.. Good news is it's only over about the last 5ft of the slab and shop area in the back. So I came up with 3 options.
Build it only 8ft walls and be done. Build it 10ft and hope the roof doesn't hit the cable with the trusses installed. Or build the back half of the shop at 8 ft and come out about 5ft then raise it to 10ft..
2. What grade and type of lumber would you recommend for wall studs and bottom and top plates I've looked at several different styles any types of wood and in all kinds of prices today . I'm planning on using treated on the ground either 2x4 or 2x6 treated for sure and doubling the top plate. Any other suggestions?
I'll have more questions I'm sure..
Thanks in advance





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[Cyberbear]

Don't let the incoming electrical cable be a problem, they are easily moved to a new location by the power company. Give them a call and ask for a spotter to come out and determine the best way to run the new drop. If you get a new service be sure it's large enough and has a main disconnect, you'll be glad you did.

 

[ddawg16]

As Cyber says...don't sweat the cable. Get it moved. You do NOT want it close to the roof. In my area, you need 8'. Basically, they don't want you to be able to touch it if you are standing on the roof.

ALL of your wall lumber can be grade 2. You only need grade 1 for joists. (typically) Grade 1 just means fewer knots.

If you want 10' walls...I'd use 2x6 studs. Over 8', 2x4's are not very straight. The cost difference is minimal.

You MUST have PT wood as your bottom plate.

Do you already have anchor bolts in your slab? If not, you are going to have to drill and epoxy them in. You need to check local code.

If it was me.....PT bottom plate with the anchor bolts sticking up above them about 2.5". Frame your walls...lift and set on bottom plate. Bolt in place.

Don't fall for the 'save some money and go 24" OC' BS on your studs. You don't save much. And what you do save you loose when you have to start chopping up 4x8 sheets of OSB or plywood because you didn't get your stud placement exact.

Go 16" OC. It also gives you more stud area to hang cabinets.

Top plate has to be doubled. Make sure you stagger the end joints.

Click on the garage build link in my signature if you want to see how I did mine.

 

[Firebird71]

Already called them awhile back and that's the only way other than to run the cable underground it's a rural cooperative and the way my line is run its on the houses behind me and next door. Now they can move it to the back yard but I have to move whole weather head and get a new meter loop. Cost to about 600.00 to 800.00 to have it done.


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[Al Bundy]

So you're going to alter your new shop plan and wind up with something you aren't happy with to save $600?

 

[Leaflessshadetree]

Is a hip roof the answer you're looking for?
I ran a new service to my shop and then replaced the service in the house making it a sub panel off the shop (all underground). Worth every penny I spent.

 

[dave89iroc]

run a new service to the garage, make the house panel a sub panel off the garage panel

 

[readhead]

Drop the service to the garage then underground to the house. You will need power in the garage so this kills both birds.

 

[Pathfinders]

Move the main service to the garage. Run underground to the house. Make the house the sub pannel. While the ground is open run water, sewer and communications. Just a thought.

 

[Pathfinders]

Damn it, if I only typed faster.

 

[matt_i]

To answer your question about lumber, I like to go to the (Lowes Home D Menards Lumber Yards) and go look at the actual timber and see if its straight, or there are a billion boards discarded off to the side because they're all more fit for the leg of a dog than a framing timber. Its not 100% consistent. I prefer the #2 SPF "premium" framing lumber that my local lumberyard has, but their treated 2x6s are despicable with loads of bark and wane on the cross section. Lowes had nearly perfect 2x6s in treated, go figure.

You probably already saved the $600 in not having to deal with permitting. I'd just have your service relocated and build something "standard" rather than building something oddball just to accommodate that.

 

[Kevin54]

. And I'm in the country so no city codes to follow

First off......Welcome to Garage Journal. Hope you hang around so we can see the garage build.

Secondly.....Are you absolutely POSITIVE that you don't have any codes to follow? You may not have City codes, but you might just have County or Township codes that you might have to follow. I would check with your Township first. There are height restrictions, setback from property line restrictions, driveway restrictions, possibly a Township Permit along with a Building Permit, and other possible codes, restrictions, and/or permits.

Don't take me wrong, I'm not trying to rain on your parade, but I just went through adding onto my garage last year, and the first thing I had to do was get a Township Permit which permitted me to get my Building Permit. And ALMOST ALWAYS, you have to have one type of permit or two which is how the county knows how to tax you on your biannually taxes. I'd hate to see anyone get halfway through a build and then be made to stop because you didn't have your permits. Another thing the permits do is to set up a schedule so you know what has to be inspected and when. And that is not always a bad thing. It stops people from putting up a half-assed building that may have electrical issues and structural issues that could be dangerous to you, or to someone on down the road that may own the house later on.

Good luck and keep us posted on the progress of things!!!

 

[Falcon67]

Move the main service to the garage. Run underground to the house. Make the house the sub pannel. While the ground is open run water, sewer and communications. Just a thought.

Been there, done that - much less long term hassle and cost to not do this. If you can't DIY the proper weather head - not an especially complicated thing - , spend the $ to get it fixed and raise the line. Our last house had a line that ran over the back yard to the neighbor, no other path for the feed. AEP raised the line for me no charge. Cleared the peak of the shop by about 12".

I re-did the feed at the last house to put it at about 12' over the drive, old weather head was under the eve. Took only about 4 hours - AEP came and pulled back the line to the pole, I put in the new parts and ran the new legs from the meter base to the panel. Just had to drill a 1 1/2" hole through the eve for the pipe and put in a roof jack, mount the base an a couple of clamps. AEP came back, took a look, set the meter, tagged it, pulled the line, crimped it up, have a nice day. Think I had maybe $100 in parts and wire total, more or less.

 

[readhead]

Kevin, I agree with your recommendation to check on permit requirements. However there are places that do not require permitting. The next county over from me has no building permit requirements. The owner is required to pull an electrical permit but that is a state requirement. The power company won't hook up without approval. I'm sure you can picture what kind of unusual building goes on over there.

 

[Kevin54]

Kevin, I agree with your recommendation to check on permit requirements. However there are places that do not require permitting. The next county over from me has no building permit requirements. The owner is required to pull an electrical permit but that is a state requirement. The power company won't hook up without approval. I'm sure you can picture what kind of unusual building goes on over there.

Just out of curiosity, and I know that you would be correct about your area, but how do they determine your taxes then?

In the case of my county, I am taxed on everything under a roof other than a shed that can be mobile. I'm taxed on the house, on my garage, my new garage addition, and even my porches attached on the house that is under roof. Then of course, I'm taxed on the amount of land that I own. In the case of my garage addition (1,008 sq.ft.) my taxes increased by $154.00/yr.

 

[galute]

Keven, it's the same way in my county. No permits required. After I built my new shop it was about 3 years or so when the tax accessor came by for his 10 year review of properties and saw the shop. He took a few measurements of the outside and added it to the bill. He didn't even go look at the new barn.

 

[buddyboy]

go to the lumber yard, talk to the guy behind the desk,

let them know you already have a pad and the size of the pad.

they should have something close to your size (drawing and material list)

have them print it out for you and then buy the lumber from them as you go.

normally they would deliver it all in common sense loads (framing/sheathing/trusses/shingles/doors/soffits)

I'm sure they can hook you up

 

[jimindm]

The power and permit questions have been answered.

Regarding the lumber to use. I would go to an actual lumber yard, if one is available to you. Skip the box stores.

A lumber yard will likely want your business. Another thing is that they deal with commercial guys on a day to day business. When they pull wood to deliver they will give you product you can use. Remember their guys are usually trained to deal with commercial contractors, but you will be no different. When I say that I mean that they are not going to knowingly give a wood that you will not use.

Think on the commercial side. They give you a piece or two that is warped badly. That would usually be a call from a contractor asking why they even brought that piece. It would also result in delivery of a piece that can be used. Believe me the owner will make sure the loaders are trained of what should be thrown out and what should be sent to job sites.

A problem with box stores is that you will likely touch every piece of wood at least twice. Maybe more if you are particular.

I have done it both ways. I would never buy a whole garage package from a box store. In the end the aggravation factor is just not worth it. Pay a little more and just get better service. If you are buying enough at once, sometimes they waive the delivery fee.

 

[DC73]

Build the 10' walls. Relocate the power line if necessary. But, you might check into the possibility of simply raising the line higher by extending the weather-head.

DC

 

[landlord30]

run a new service to the garage, make the house panel a sub panel off the garage panel

This is exactly what I did. It worked out great.

 

[DougWil]

I would use 2x6 Douglas Fir #2 at 24" OC.
Why 24?
It lines up with trusses if they are at 24" OC and you will have a higher R value whole wall assembly, vs 16" OC.

Solid wood is not near as good an insulator as insulation.

 

[Firebird71]

First off......Welcome to Garage Journal. Hope you hang around so we can see the garage build.



Secondly.....Are you absolutely POSITIVE that you don't have any codes to follow? You may not have City codes, but you might just have County or Township codes that you might have to follow. I would check with your Township first. There are height restrictions, setback from property line restrictions, driveway restrictions, possibly a Township Permit along with a Building Permit, and other possible codes, restrictions, and/or permits.



Don't take me wrong, I'm not trying to rain on your parade, but I just went through adding onto my garage last year, and the first thing I had to do was get a Township Permit which permitted me to get my Building Permit. And ALMOST ALWAYS, you have to have one type of permit or two which is how the county knows how to tax you on your biannually taxes. I'd hate to see anyone get halfway through a build and then be made to stop because you didn't have your permits. Another thing the permits do is to set up a schedule so you know what has to be inspected and when. And that is not always a bad thing. It stops people from putting up a half-assed building that may have electrical issues and structural issues that could be dangerous to you, or to someone on down the road that may own the house later on.



Good luck and keep us posted on the progress of things!!!

Nope no codes out here were rural county here. We can pretty much do as we please... Backwoods. Pretty much. I've checked with the county judges office and his office said as long as it's not on someone else's property and not out in the road. Like he said be sensible and you'll be fine. He looked at the slab awhile back when he drove by and was wondering when I was going to do something with the slab... He lives down the road from me.


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[Firebird71]

Build the 10' walls. Relocate the power line if necessary. But, you might check into the possibility of simply raising the line higher by extending the weather-head.

DC

That is thought


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[Firebird71]

I called REA. Our power company today from work and there going to resend an engineer out to see if maybe he can figure something out. We can't go underground cause my septic lines are in the area to and the slab as well.. But they might can reroute my drop line from another pole or something. We'll see.


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[Firebird71]

Update. Rea came out today and talked to my gf I was at work. Different guy than the last one and this guy had no objections to helping me get this fixed He said the best way to fix this problem is to raise my weather head 3ft and that will fix my problem. Called a buddy tonight who is a licensed electrician and he said sure we can do it.. So we're looking at 2 weeks from today. Friday and hopefully we can get this done. He said it shouldn't take no more and a couple of hours to get it done. Progress is being made.

Tonight I went to lowes and bought some of the lumber to start on the shop came home and started to getting stuff laid out to build the first wall this weekend if possible.. Looks like the shops final dimensions will be 32x21x10 foot. So my question is how long do I build the walls I've been told to leave 6 in on each end for overhang is this correct ?
Thanks again guys


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[Firebird71]

Just out of curiosity, and I know that you would be correct about your area, but how do they determine your taxes then?



In the case of my county, I am taxed on everything under a roof other than a shed that can be mobile. I'm taxed on the house, on my garage, my new garage addition, and even my porches attached on the house that is under roof. Then of course, I'm taxed on the amount of land that I own. In the case of my garage addition (1,008 sq.ft.) my taxes increased by $154.00/yr.

Taxes are done just like they Around here. Once every few years they come by and reevaluate things and go from there. I have a small barn/shop on the back of the property that has never even been put on there.


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[Cobra5150]

You're building a 32x21 shop on a 30x20 slab?

 

[readhead]

Since you can't go underground you won't have any power in the garage?

 

[Firebird71]

You're building a 32x21 shop on a 30x20 slab?

No my slab is much bigger and attached to the house. My slabs actual size is 23x36.


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[DougWil]

What is going to keep water from infiltrating under your walls since the siding won't be overlapping the slab?

And how do you know what load your slab and base can carry?
Does it have a footing? Thickened perimeter?
Or is it just a 4" or so driveway/patio type slab?

 

[bgarrett]

My electrician suggested that I put a pole nearby and have my meter and main breaker panel on it. That stops the electrical inspector and after hes gone, I buried my wire a few feet over to my buildings. I've done 4 buildings so far. Works good

 

[DougWil]

My electrician suggested that I put a pole nearby and have my meter and main breaker panel on it. That stops the electrical inspector and after hes gone, I buried my wire a few feet over to my buildings. I've done 4 buildings so far. Works good

What does your insurance company say after the building and contents have burned down, without code compliant electrical and permits?

 

[Firebird71]

No it's got footings and was put in with intent of it being used as a garage.


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