Need some advice on a Swim Spa installation

[b-boy]

I'm looking at purchasing a Swim Spa. It's basically a large hot tub with an extra pump to allow in-place swimming. This is my wife's idea. I originally said no, until I found out it can be used as a hot tub during the colder months.

I'm looking for advice on how to wire the unit. The unit requires a 60A GFCI breaker.

The location I picked is about 15 feet from my house. The tub needs a dedicated 60A circuit. It will be difficult to add a home run back to my main panel. My basement is completely finished. The existing panel is currently full, so I'd probably need a subpanel or need to do some circuit consolidation to make room.

That being said, I have an existing 60A circuit that runs from my main panel to the corner of my house near the location of the Swim Spa. There is a project box on the house that takes the #4 Cu from inside the house and transitions it to #6 Cu that runs to my external garage about 20 ft from the house. It's a 4-wire setup. The garage was used as a shop by the prior owner. He was a boat mechanic and had an engine hoist, welders, heat, etc.. in the garage. There is an existing subpanel inside the garage with a 50Amp breaker. I don't need the garage setup anymore. I really only need lights and a few outlets in there. The only thing I'm unsure of is how the garage panel was grounded.

Can I tap into the 60A circuit on my house?

I'd like to add an exterior subpanel that would feed the garage and the Spa using the existing circuit. Since the circuit from the panel is #4 Cu, I thought I could replace the 60A breaker with a larger breaker at the main panel. I'd like to replace the exterior project box with a subpanel and feed the Spa and the garage from there. I'd run #6 Cu THWN to the spa and add a 60Amp GFCI breaker. I'd then run a 30Amp circuit to the garage on the existing #6 Cu THWN. There is nothing but LED lights running in the garage, so 30A is probably major overkill. I could probably get away with 20A.

I'm in NY state. Based on what I've read, the main requirements are having a dedicated circuit, having the shutoff more than 6 feet from the Swim Spa, and making sure that any receptacles within 20 ft of the unit have GFCI protection. The shutoff also needs to be within sight of the Swim Spa. The configuration I mentioned above would satisfy these requirements.

Any thoughts or advice?

 

[PelicanPines]

Treat the ground for termites... Learn from my experience. Took them 18 years but they ate holes in the internal pipes. Too many holes to warrant a repair.

 

[mm08822]

If there is a 4 wire feed to the garage, then it meets current code.
The garage would also need 2 ground rods or connection to a ufer grounding system.
The neutral and ground bars should be isolated from each other in the garage sub panel.

It's possible that you could access that junction box and tap each of the 4 conductors to the spa gfci cb/disconnect located 6+ feet away from the spa for the spa.

 

[b-boy]

I considered that, but there's a concrete driveway between the garage and the hot tub location. That was my first choice, but the location is not great. It's too far from the main house.

 

[mm08822]

So splice in the main panel with conductors of same rating onto that cb. Split bolt connectors and tape for the phase conductors.
Not my preffered way, but it's as practical as can be.

ETA: See if you can tandems or quads to make available circuit breaker space to keep both spa and garage separate.

 

[dscheidt]

I'd like to add an exterior subpanel that would feed the garage and the Spa using the existing circuit. Since the circuit from the panel is #4 Cu, I thought I could replace the 60A breaker with a larger breaker at the main panel. I'd like to replace the exterior project box with a subpanel and feed the Spa and the garage from there. I'd run #6 Cu THWN to the spa and add a 60Amp GFCI breaker. I'd then run a 30Amp circuit to the garage on the existing #6 Cu THWN. There is nothing but LED lights running in the garage, so 30A is probably major overkill. I could probably get away with 20A.

4AWG copper is good for 85A. Since that's not a standard breaker size, you can use a 90A breaker as long as the loads don't exceed 85a.

Keep the 60A feed to the garage. Even if you have no plans for an electric car, whoever buys the house will.

 

[Gelinzen]

I ran into a similar issue and ended up using a reinforced concrete pad with fiber mesh and rebar—held up great. Make sure the ground underneath is compacted really well. I visited true nature retreat ohio last year and saw how they did their outdoor spa setups—super solid and gave me some good ideas on proper drainage and access space for service. Helped me rethink placement and long-term maintenance.

 

[Zugec]

I'm looking at purchasing a Swim Spa. It's basically a large hot tub with an extra pump to allow in-place swimming. This is my wife's idea. I originally said no, until I found out it can be used as a hot tub during the colder months.

I'm looking for advice on how to wire the unit. The unit requires a 60A GFCI breaker.

The location I picked is about 15 feet from my house. The tub needs a dedicated 60A circuit. It will be difficult to add a home run back to my main panel. My basement is completely finished. The existing panel is currently full, so I'd probably need a subpanel or need to do some circuit consolidation to make room.

That being said, I have an existing 60A circuit that runs from my main panel to the corner of my house near the location of the Swim Spa. There is a project box on the house that takes the #4 Cu from inside the house and transitions it to #6 Cu that runs to my external garage about 20 ft from the house. It's a 4-wire setup. The garage was used as a shop by the prior owner. He was a boat mechanic and had an engine hoist, welders, heat, etc.. in the garage. There is an existing subpanel inside the garage with a 50Amp breaker. I don't need the garage setup anymore. I really only need lights and a few outlets in there. The only thing I'm unsure of is how the garage panel was grounded.

Can I tap into the 60A circuit on my house?

I'd like to add an exterior subpanel that would feed the garage and the Spa using the existing circuit. Since the circuit from the panel is #4 Cu, I thought I could replace the 60A breaker with a larger breaker at the main panel. I'd like to replace the exterior project box with a subpanel and feed the Spa and the garage from there. I'd run #6 Cu THWN to the spa and add a 60Amp GFCI breaker. I'd then run a 30Amp circuit to the garage on the existing #6 Cu THWN. There is nothing but LED lights running in the garage, so 30A is probably major overkill. I could probably get away with 20A.

I'm in NY state. Based on what I've read, the main requirements are having a dedicated circuit, having the shutoff more than 6 feet from the Swim Spa, and making sure that any receptacles within 20 ft of the unit have GFCI protection. The shutoff also needs to be within sight of the Swim Spa. The configuration I mentioned above would satisfy these requirements.

Any thoughts or advice?

Friend got a similar spa setup and he had to run a dedicated 60A GFCI line just for it. You really don't want to share that old garage feed, code calls for its own circuit and shutoff :/

 

[b-boy]

Friend got a similar spa setup and he had to run a dedicated 60A GFCI line just for it. You really don't want to share that old garage feed, code calls for its own circuit and shutoff :/

When you say dedicated, do you mean running a home run back to the main panel? Technically this will have its own GFCI off of a subpanel, so the breaker will be dedicated. I'll downgrade the garage to a 30Amp GFCI, which it will never use. The only thing in the garage are LED lights and a few outlets.

 

[Zugec]

Yeah, dedicated means its own homer from the main panel on a GFCI. Feeding it off that old 60A garage line still isn't the same, you would be splitting a feeder. Code wants the spa on its own circuit with nothing else hanging off it, even if the garage only pulls a little

 

[PelicanPines]

Friend got a similar spa setup and he had to run a dedicated 60A GFCI line just for it. You really don't want to share that old garage feed, code calls for its own circuit and shutoff :/

I have a dedicated 60A GFCI line with a dedicated disconnect near my tub...

 

[Zugec]

If that is the case then you are already set up right. As long as that 60A GFCI is truly a homer just for he tub with its own disconnect, you're good to go

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Yeah, dedicated means its own homer from the main panel on a GFCI.

which definition says dedicated circuit means it has to come from the main panel?

Feeding it off that old 60A garage line still isn't the same, you would be splitting a feeder. Code wants the spa on its own circuit with nothing else hanging off it, even if the garage only pulls a little

which code says this? please cite it

 

[mm08822]

The tub needs gfci protection.
The tub needs to be on a circuit providing the required voltage/ampacity.

There is no dedicated ckt requirement but it does make for simpler wiring.

 

[Zugec]

@wyliesdiesels
NEC Article 680 (Spas & Hot Tubs) says that spa has to be on a dedicated branch circuit. That means the breaker feeds only the spa, without anything else tied in. Even a small loaded garage circuit would be count as a shared feeder and not dedicated.

Manufacturer also call this out in their install manuals. Inspectors also forces it in the same way, so spa - its own homerun to a 60A GFCI.

 

[mm08822]

A feeder is not the same as branch circuit. There is no homerun requirement. Which requirement in NEC 680 are you referring to?

Many pool installations use a localized sub-panel (fed by a feeder) and from within that sub-panel, a branch circuit with gfci protection then specifically feeds the spa/pool. The Op's sub-panel in the garage is the same situation.

 

[dscheidt]

When you say dedicated, do you mean running a home run back to the main panel? Technically this will have its own GFCI off of a subpanel, so the breaker will be dedicated. I'll downgrade the garage to a 30Amp GFCI, which it will never use. The only thing in the garage are LED lights and a few outlets.

Why change anything about the garage? Feed the garage via existing wiring from the panel you're adding. It's more work, and less useful, to do anything else. There's nothing wrong with feeding a subpanel from a subpanel, and no problem with having loads that exceed the supply to the new sub, since you're not going to use them at the same time.

 

[b-boy]

A feeder is not the same as branch circuit. There is no homerun requirement. Which requirement in NEC 680 are you referring to?

Many pool installations use a localized sub-panel (fed by a feeder) and from within that sub-panel, a branch circuit with gfci protection then specifically feeds the spa/pool. The Op's sub-panel in the garage is the same situation.

Yes. This is my exact situation.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

@wyliesdiesels
NEC Article 680 (Spas & Hot Tubs) says that spa has to be on a dedicated branch circuit. That means the breaker feeds only the spa, without anything else tied in. Even a small loaded garage circuit would be count as a shared feeder and not dedicated.

Manufacturer also call this out in their install manuals. Inspectors also forces it in the same way, so spa - its own homerun to a 60A GFCI.

you didnt cite a code you cited an article and it doesnt back up your claim that a dedicated circuit for a spa cant be on a subpanel feeder. you are mixing up feeder and dedicated branch circuit.

so once again, please cite the code that you claim prohibits feeding a dedicated spa BRANCH CIRCUIT off a subpanel feeder. dont cite an article...

 

[Zugec]

Alright, since everyone wants to play code lawyer here - yes, I know a feeder isn't a branch circuit, thanks for the lecture. Have I said a sub panel can't be used? My bad if I did. The actual requirement is NEC 680.44 (who wants citing, could simply check internet), which says the spa has to be on an individual branch circuit. That's the code term for what we've all been calling "Dedicated" - one breaker that feeds only the spa, nothing else hanging on it, GFCI protected.

So no, the NEC doesn't say "homer from the main only", but it does say no piggybacking loads on the spa circuit. Inspectors and manufacturer manuals enforce it the same way.

If splitting hairs over "article vs code" makes you feel smart, knock yourself out. Meanwhile, the rest of us just wire it right so it passes inspection and doesn't trip out

 

[tvand13]

Alright, since everyone wants to play code lawyer here - yes, I know a feeder isn't a branch circuit, thanks for the lecture. Have I said a sub panel can't be used? My bad if I did. The actual requirement is NEC 680.44 (who wants citing, could simply check internet), which says the spa has to be on an individual branch circuit. That's the code term for what we've all been calling "Dedicated" - one breaker that feeds only the spa, nothing else hanging on it, GFCI protected.

So no, the NEC doesn't say "homer from the main only", but it does say no piggybacking loads on the spa circuit. Inspectors and manufacturer manuals enforce it the same way.

If splitting hairs over "article vs code" makes you feel smart, knock yourself out. Meanwhile, the rest of us just wire it right so it passes inspection and doesn't trip out

You're still confused and arguing with licensed electricians. The solution being proposed in this thread is satisfying the "spa on a dedicated branch circuit" code requirement. The fact that the dedicated branch circuit breaker is on a (properly-sized and properly-wired) subpanel instead of the main panel is irrelevant.

 

[mm08822]

Alright, since everyone wants to play code lawyer here - yes, I know a feeder isn't a branch circuit, thanks for the lecture. Have I said a sub panel can't be used? My bad if I did. The actual requirement is NEC 680.44 (who wants citing, could simply check internet), which says the spa has to be on an individual branch circuit. That's the code term for what we've all been calling "Dedicated" - one breaker that feeds only the spa, nothing else hanging on it, GFCI protected.

So no, the NEC doesn't say "homer from the main only", but it does say no piggybacking loads on the spa circuit. Inspectors and manufacturer manuals enforce it the same way.

If splitting hairs over "article vs code" makes you feel smart, knock yourself out. Meanwhile, the rest of us just wire it right so it passes inspection and doesn't trip out

Welcome to Clown Town everyone! Enjoying the bowl of WORD SALAD?

You completely ignored the OP's initial situation and his verification request as to whether his proposed solution would still meet code. It does!

You won't find your stated embellished requirements b/c they don't exist. NEC 680.44 only states GFCI protection required.
Maybe you have the ability read between the lines but my code reads like this:


And 680.5 states:

 

[b-boy]

Thanks for everyone's input on this. The spa is finally wired, installed, filled, and running nicely.