Need some advise on heating source for infloor heating

[JBAUTO]

Its been two years and finaly this winter im going to start up my in floor heating system.

I have 24x24 garage slap insulated with 700 feet of pex 4 zones and my heating source is propane or hydro but hydro is expensive.

I need some options here.

The options i have were to use a HE 60 gal hot water tank and have a circ pump circ water to a heat exchanger then that exchanger would heat the gylchol for the garage in floor heating.

The other option was to have a boiler with a heat exchanger or boiler mate for hot water for the house.

I also wanna do in floor heating on the main floor witch is 1600 sq feet some options would be apprechiated.

josh

 

[philjafo]

I would recommend a boiler with an indirect water heater (water tank with internal heat exchanger)

 

[JBAUTO]

Any propane boiler sugestions ?

 

[philjafo]

Well McClain ultra boilers are good, the water heater tank is seprate and takes up more room. Prestige triangle tube boilers are also nice, the boiler is a little bigger but the domestic water heater is inside so it actually takes up less room. It also has a stainless steel heat exchanger.

 

[JBAUTO]

I like the triangle tube boiler but im looking at about $3000 to my door. A bit out of my budget for one shot. Any other sugestions ?

 

[Sureshot]

Spend your money once and do it right. The savings in utilitiy bills and only doing it once will pay off.

 

[bkalstrup]

I know this is an old discussion but i have situation that is similar. I have the tubing in my basement floor that is about 2100 sqf. I was planning on doing one closed system with on demand water heater seperate from power vent water heater for the houses hot water. My question is what is the most effecient way to heat my floor and heat the house water. I could sell my brand new power vent water heater and buy a boiler with indirect water heat i guess. Dont really know, a little out of my comfort zone but need some help to whoever see this. Thanks for the help.

 

[philjafo]

Gotta shop apples to apples, with the triangle tube boiler your also getting the water heater and tank with the controls to run the boiler to heat the water and internal pump to move water to the domestic water heater. There's definitely cheaper boilers out there but this is one if those times when you get what you pay for, figure 20 to 30 years from the triangle tube, I've seen ordinary natural vent water heaters leak after 5 years so if you figure avrage 10 years out of one and I charge about $1000 dollars to install one, and the boiler just paid for itself. Not to mention much reduced cost to operate and you will NOT run that boiler out of hot water like a water heater and 3 grand starts to look cheap for a boiler. Btw I charge a lot more for one of those boilers but that includes top of the line professional installation.

 

[philjafo]

I know this is an old discussion but i have situation that is similar. I have the tubing in my basement floor that is about 2100 sqf. I was planning on doing one closed system with on demand water heater seperate from power vent water heater for the houses hot water. My question is what is the most effecient way to heat my floor and heat the house water. I could sell my brand new power vent water heater and buy a boiler with indirect water heat i guess. Dont really know, a little out of my comfort zone but need some help to whoever see this. Thanks for the help.

Old? It was just started yesterday. See above

 

[lzenglish]

I would recommend a boiler with an indirect water heater (water tank with internal heat exchanger)

I would Not Recommend an Indirect System, as each time you Transfer Heat thru a Heat Exchanger, you Loose Heat in the process! If you go Direct, you will Reap all the BTU's available, in the initial pass! Unless your water is not fit to drink, it will do fine as far as corrosion goes.

Wayne

 

[philjafo]

It is illegal and unsafe to have water coming out of the hydronic heating system to use as potable. The water tank is inside the box that the boiler is in and there is almost no heat loss, if you call triangle tube tech support they might be able to give you a number. 40 gallon water heater keeps 40 gallons hot all the time no matter how much you use, I'm not certain on the exact size of the tank in the tt boiler but thinking around 3 - 5 gallons, as in only heating water when your using hot water. That far out weighs the minor loss from heat exchanger.

 

[lzenglish]

It is illegal and unsafe to have water coming out of the hydronic heating system to use as potable. /QUOTE]



Thanks for pointing that amazing fact out, but I don't think anyone had, or has any plans to drink it! I was merely pointing out the the condition of the domestic water, that would feed the boiler. Some areas have water so bad, you could cut it with a knife. In a case like that, I would either treat it (not cost effective), or use an exchanger with glycol. By the way, I don't need to call triangle, as I have been in the HVAC buisness for well over 35 years, and have put more systems together than the average Joe blow.

Wayne

P.S. How long have you worked for Triangle? I have never heard of them in my HVAC journals?

 

[Jackfre]

The reason to go with a boiler is to number one, do it the right way and two, you gain all the outdoor reset advantages of the boiler. Substantial savings will be realized and over time you will recover the cost and have a system which will LAST. It's the old "right tool for the job" routine.

 

[philjafo]

It is illegal and unsafe to have water coming out of the hydronic heating system to use as potable. /QUOTE]



Thanks for pointing that amazing fact out, but I don't think anyone had, or has any plans to drink it! I was merely pointing out the the condition of the domestic water, that would feed the boiler. Some areas have water so bad, you could cut it with a knife. In a case like that, I would either treat it (not cost effective), or use an exchanger with glycol. By the way, I don't need to call triangle, as I have been in the HVAC buisness for well over 35 years, and have put more systems together than the average Joe blow.

Wayne

P.S. How long have you worked for Triangle? I have never heard of them in my HVAC journals?

Sorry Wayne I missread your post, and I don't work for prestige triangle tube boiler, I have installed a lot of them in the years I have been in the HVAC business and I have never had a customer complain about the heat loss due to the indirect water heater. In fact most are surprised by how much their utility bill goes down.
The op asked for a recommendations for something that would take care of heating his home and his domestic hot water, I simply gave him my professional opinion on a system that would take care of his needs. How can you recommend a traditional direct fired water heater, if you have been in the HVAC business for 35 years you surely know the life expectency and the cost to operate the old fashion 40 gallon water heater. The other option would be an on demand or tankless water heater, and those work great as well but it adds a lot of cost when the boiler can take care of heating water just as well.

 

[Jackfre]

It is illegal and unsafe to have water coming out of the hydronic heating system to use as potable. The water tank is inside the box that the boiler is in and there is almost no heat loss, if you call triangle tube tech support they might be able to give you a number. 40 gallon water heater keeps 40 gallons hot all the time no matter how much you use, I'm not certain on the exact size of the tank in the tt boiler but thinking around 3 - 5 gallons, as in only heating water when your using hot water. That far out weighs the minor loss from heat exchanger.

Actually, it is not illegal to mix domestic and heating water. The old Appollo Hydroheats and other tank water heaters did it all the time. The big apartment developers like Avalon have done hundreds of thousands of these and there are plenty of themin your area. Even MA allows it, although grudgingly.

Now, just because it is not illegal does not make it a good idea. It may be fine, but what are the consequences in your own home should something go wrong? Legionellas comes to mind and you do not want to go there.

 

[JBAUTO]

just to report back. I used a titan 12kw and a groundfos circ pump in my mechanical room. Now my garage doors are still wood and i keep it at 55 all day long and its costing me about $100-140 more per month to operate.

 

[anthony666]

that seems a lot to warm 525 sq feet, i guess this winter has been particularly savage so far though

i'd suggest trying a timer and just using the cheaper rate hydro at night .. i have a customer over on rice lake that uses that strategy with a slant fin electric boiler in his house .. there still should be enough thermal mass in your system that you won't notice much difference till ontario hydro sends their hate mail at the end of the month

 

[jimgerken]

I heat a shop with RFH and a 40 gallon tank type power vent water heater. First thing, heat loss from the tank: The heat that is lost from the tank goes into the heated space anyway, so somewhat unimportant. Cost: I am heating the shop to 50 degrees all winter long in MN for about 150 gallons of Propane. building size is 1064 square feet. 2x6 walls, and an inch of XPS foam under the slab.