Need some help with size & strategy

[pjr710]

Hey guys, I'm new here, but have wanted a sweet garage forever.

My main classification is I have toys to store & I like to work on my vehicles when I can.

Ideally I'd like to have a garage that I can store the toys, have a lift, and have it be warm enough to work in during the winter.

I'm really not sure the best approach here,

But I am wondering first what size garage I need, and maybe what type to get.

For toys I have 2 jet skis with trailers, a UTV, 2 ATVs, a riding lawn mower, and a large tow behind mower.

For vehicles I'd like to be able to store at least 2 vehicles as well.

Can someone point me in the right direction as far as what size garage I may need and also what type might best suite my needs?

It seems like Pole Barns would be perfect, bu then the downside is that I heard you cannot really heat them.

 

[kd3pc]

your best bet is to take some old fashioned graph paper and make scale cut outs of the items you want to store and use.

The lift will likely require more than a standard 8' ceiling and the maker of the lift will have specs, choose the lift and then calculate the ceiling height.

Location is a must have for heat/cooling. Radiant floor heating is the cat's meow, but pricey. Heat pump may be an option, natural gas is usually much lower cost operation if you have it available.

No matter how large (or small) a garage you build it will often be too small. Check with your local AHJ and HOA/POA and other regulatory agencies, as they will have regs that you must deal with.

others will chime in soon....

 

[tez929rr]

You should probably read through threads in the gallery section. There is no way for anyone else to know what size you need, other than when you are done you will probably wish it was bigger.

I don’t know about pole barns, but steel buildings go up quickly compared to stick construction and they can be heated just fine.

 

[ddawg16]

Welcome to Garage Journal.

First, I would suggest putting your location in your profile. Where you live is a big factor of what and how to build.

Next....how much space do you have? Are in a residential neighborhood or are you living on 5-10 acres?

Is it going to be attached to your house? Or detached?

What is your budget? As you know about cars, when they ask "How fast do you want to go? How much money do you have?" Same with garages.

And....as you will learn....'it's never big enough'.

I would suggest going to the Garage Gallery and looking at other members garages. That will give you a good idea.

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=7

Besides size, other issues....Stick vs Pole....height.....floor (don't get hung up on doing Epoxy day one)...etc. Then there is the issue of power...how much? Compressors? Bio Break room? (plumbing).

If you have dealt with drama and decisions with the wife over a kitchen....multiply by 1000 for a garage.

 

[pjr710]

Excellent replies!

your best bet is to take some old fashioned graph paper and make scale cut outs of the items you want to store and use.

That's kind of exactly what I was thinking I may need to do. I was hoping there was some fancy online tool for it!

Location is a must have for heat/cooling. Radiant floor heating is the cat's meow, but pricey. Heat pump may be an option, natural gas is usually much lower cost operation if you have it available.

I don’t know about pole barns, but steel buildings go up quickly compared to stick construction and they can be heated just fine.

OK .. I think I was thinking pole barns & steel buildings were the same. Maybe not tho .. and being able to heat them seems good.

I'm in Pennsylvania ... I have a lot of wood so would heat would probably be ideal.

Welcome to Garage Journal.

Next....how much space do you have? Are in a residential neighborhood or are you living on 5-10 acres?

Is it going to be attached to your house? Or detached?

What is your budget? As you know about cars, when they ask "How fast do you want to go? How much money do you have?" Same with garages.

And....as you will learn....'it's never big enough'.

I would suggest going to the Garage Gallery and looking at other members garages. That will give you a good idea.


Besides size, other issues....Stick vs Pole....height.....floor (don't get hung up on doing Epoxy day one)...etc. Then there is the issue of power...how much? Compressors? Bio Break room? (plumbing).

If you have dealt with drama and decisions with the wife over a kitchen....multiply by 1000 for a garage.

Thank you! ... I have over 10 acres and am not in a community or development.

It will be detached. As far as budget i certainly want it as cheap as possible so it will take lots of research and planning.

Everything else you said makes sense, i'll certainly take a look at the gallery and get some ideas.

 

[SickSpeedMonte]

That's kind of exactly what I was thinking I may need to do. I was hoping there was some fancy online tool for it!

Maybe there is, but I have had success using PowerPoint if you have MS Office. You can Google top-view drawings of a lot of vehicles and then you can paste them into PP and scale them. Then they are easily dragged/rotated.

The same is possible with many image processors like Photoshop.

 

[66Caprice]

Go park all of your toys and vehicles in the spot you would like to build in the arrangement you would like. Then add to it for work space and future toys. Then measure it and see what you think. All of us here will tell you to make it bigger!!

 

[pjr710]

Go park all of your toys and vehicles in the spot you would like to build in the arrangement you would like. Then add to it for work space and future toys. Then measure it and see what you think. All of us here will tell you to make it bigger!!

lol actually great common sense idea!

one thing i was not sure of was if you have a lift if you need special concrete pouring.

and also if it's worth having a 2 post lift or you just get a four post

 

[rburke65]

Well you can Google pole building and Steel building and then you'll realize 2 different things. I'm thinking, you need to do a LOT of reading first. Your shop...or garage...or whatever you'll call it will be small quickly. Make sure your build foot print is high enough to prevent the water from entering. Couldn't begin to tell you how many folks try to save a dollar and end up in "damage control". Read and plan.

 

[ddawg16]

With 10 acres to play with, you have lots of options. We still don't know your 'aprox' location, so we can't offer any advice about weather related issues.

If it was me....and that many toys, I think I'd do it in 2 sections. I'm not a big fan of pole barns or metal buildings....but it's hard to beat the cost/ft. Downside, they are not as easy to insulate.

So...I'd do a pole barn for basic storage of toys. Use 66's idea of parking all your toys and seeing how much room you need.

Then I'd do a stick built garage next to it with all the comforts...insulated....lift....bathroom...lots of lighting...enough room for the lift plus two more vehicles.

 

[66Caprice]

lol actually great common sense idea!

one thing i was not sure of was if you have a lift if you need special concrete pouring.

and also if it's worth having a 2 post lift or you just get a four post

Well now you went and done it..... 2 Post VS. 4post lifts. That comes down to the individual. I have a 4 post and love it. Never used a 2 post but they both have their own advantages and disadvantages.

 

[Falcon67]

Go park all of your toys and vehicles in the spot you would like to build in the arrangement you would like. Then add to it for work space and future toys. Then measure it and see what you think. All of us here will tell you to make it bigger!!

This. Use grade stakes and string to lay it out, including big doors, little doors, work space, etc. Lay it out on the ground and walk it - any issues will pop right up, unlike the perfection that may exist on your graph paper.

I'm a computer guy and I personally prefer graph paper, ruler and some pencils. You can boot that up anywhere easily and no wifi connection required LOL.

 

[tdkkart]

Start out pricing an 80' x 120' and then scale it back to something your budget lines up with.

Wood heat is great if you're a caveman. There's a reason we've developed other heat sources. If I heated with wood it would consume enough time that I wouldn't need a shop to play in.

 

[Falcon67]

I store lawnmower fuel, methanol and race fuel in the shop, and in the race cars. NO OPEN FLAME in my shop. Wood would be a non-starter. Only flame I'd consider would be a vented propane heater with external combustion air. I currently use electric.

 

[gunguy]

I like John's idea of a separate storage building for some of the stuff. Storing stuff takes up a lot less room than the space needed to work on stuff, if that's making any sense to you.

An unheated shed with a gravel pad to store some of the toys or seasonal equipment is a lot less expensive to construct and keeps that stuff out of the garage/workshop.

As far as the concrete thickness and type for a lift, research the lifts you may want. What type of work to you anticipate doing? What's the heaviest vehicle you plan to lift?
If all you plan on doing is light maintenance, i.e. oil changes, brake work, etc. on cars and light trucks then maybe consider a scissor lift that can be recessed into the floor.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, figure out, in detail as much as possible what you want to do in this space, such as auto maintenance, wood working, fabricating, restoration, etc, etc, etc. then plan accordingly. There is a wealth of information on this site. Search 2-post vs 4-post lifts, or If you had to do it all over again.... It's a somewhat difficult process but the better, the clearer the plan, the better the outcome.

Sharpen your pencil, get a fresh pad of paper (I'm old school) and get crackin'!

Good luck and welcome to the GJ

Jim

 

[ddawg16]

I like John's idea of a separate storage building for some of the stuff. Storing stuff takes up a lot less room than the space needed to work on stuff, if that's making any sense to you.

An unheated shed with a gravel pad to store some of the toys or seasonal equipment is a lot less expensive to construct and keeps that stuff out of the garage/workshop.

As far as the concrete thickness and type for a lift, research the lifts you may want. What type of work to you anticipate doing? What's the heaviest vehicle you plan to lift?
If all you plan on doing is light maintenance, i.e. oil changes, brake work, etc. on cars and light trucks then maybe consider a scissor lift that can be recessed into the floor.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, figure out, in detail as much as possible what you want to do in this space, such as auto maintenance, wood working, fabricating, restoration, etc, etc, etc. then plan accordingly. There is a wealth of information on this site. Search 2-post vs 4-post lifts, or If you had to do it all over again.... It's a somewhat difficult process but the better, the clearer the plan, the better the outcome.

Sharpen your pencil, get a fresh pad of paper (I'm old school) and get crackin'!

Good luck and welcome to the GJ

Jim

Hell yea.....I would guesstimate the cost of a concrete pad alone would be at least 1/3 to 1/2 the cost of a metal building or pole barn. The money saved could then be used on the workshop area.

I have a close friend in KS who has three pole barns shoved full of cars. They are long with large doors at each end. The cars are parked on the sides and you have a large isle down the middle to get stuff in and out.

And with a gravel floor....later on if there is some spare money looking to be spent....it's easy to cover that gravel with sand and a concrete pad.

 

[4 FN 27]

A friend of mine told me to do this:

Take everything you want in your garage and put it all in a field organized how you would like it to be.

Put 2 cones out where you would have the Garage Door.

Then take your biggest vehicle (with a trailer if you have one) drive it between the cones and make a U-turn between all your things and drive out between the cones.

Take this size and double it.

It worked for me!!!

As other have suggested lay it out to scale. Always leave a little room for growth.

 

[bad_idea]

I would suggest a 40x60 shelter (pole barn with three sides and a roof w/ gravel floor) for the toy storage.

Then a 30x40 building for shop. Two 9x9 roll up doors on the 40' side off to one side - gives you two bays for working two projects at a time. Insulated, plenty of electrical, and a HVAC system.

Should be able to throw up the shelter for $20k or so. That is my wild *** guess, contact a pole barn builder for a better quote. The shop price is contingent on how fancy you want it to be, plan on $35k-$100k.

 

[pjr710]

With 10 acres to play with, you have lots of options. We still don't know your 'aprox' location, so we can't offer any advice about weather related issues.

If it was me....and that many toys, I think I'd do it in 2 sections. I'm not a big fan of pole barns or metal buildings....but it's hard to beat the cost/ft. Downside, they are not as easy to insulate.

So...I'd do a pole barn for basic storage of toys. Use 66's idea of parking all your toys and seeing how much room you need.

Then I'd do a stick built garage next to it with all the comforts...insulated....lift....bathroom...lots of lighting...enough room for the lift plus two more vehicles.

I'm in pennsyvania up north.

I am thinking this may be a great solution.

Well now you went and done it..... 2 Post VS. 4post lifts. That comes down to the individual. I have a 4 post and love it. Never used a 2 post but they both have their own advantages and disadvantages.

Yea the only thing I wasn't 100% clear on is how you use a 4 post lift if you have to do work which requires using the jack points. Such as dropping a subframe or something removing the wheels.

As for all the other responses .. excellent advice and feedback I really do appreciate all of it.

I have my work cut out for me for sure.

 

[CraigStu]

Google garage floor plan program. I have one from Virtual Architect that I used for our house. It had a feature where I could take a picture of the stock floorplan, load it into the program and trace it. Then modify it how we wanted. The program has tons of things listed to click on and install into your drawing. Windows, doors, furniture etc. All the pieces can be modified if you want. I picked a table that looked like ours and could modify it to be exactly the same size as ours. I think one more oriented to garage layout might have menus of garage equipment. The program was invaluable to us as we ended up using the stock outside walls and modifying everything else. It is really neat to sit w/ my wife and see what she thought about things. Nice to be able to click on a door, or wall, or window, and move it 6 inches or a foot or whatever in 10 seconds. And it had a 3d feature that simulated walking through the house. We used that to assure that she could see the TV in the family room while standing at the stove. I did the kitchen cabinet layout also since it had standard sizes that matched the ones we bought. That was invaluable as I discovered that to have the window at the kitchen sink be centered on the sink, I needed to move the window about 5 inches. I down loaded it for about $50 and, as much as I used it, I would have gladly paid twice that.