Need Stihl Advice

[MDSPHOTO]

I need a blower, never owned one before, so I went to the local Stihl dealer and left with information overload.

They had a special on the top of the line back pack blower for $466, but then they showed me the combi-system that has the blower attachment for the same price and let me try both. They were pretty similar in their ability to move debris, but the backpack was slightly stronger. I would never even have considered the combi-system, but as I thought about it my cheap Home Depot string trimmer and edger are on their last legs and it would be nice just to add those attachments to the combi-system later as my cheapies finally bite the dust.

They dealer was really hard selling me on the combi-system over the backpack most likely because it will result in future sales. What are your thoughts on the combi-system? Are they hard selling it because it blows and they have excess inventory? Anyone know if this is a long-term product line for Stihl so it will not be obsolete next year? Is the $466 a good deal on the back pack?

As always, thanks for your guidance.

MDS

 

[canuckian]

i have the kombi system with the straight shaft trimmer, blower and sidewalk brush and it's a nice system. it's been around for quite a few years so I doubt it's going anywhere soon. if you're just looking for a dedicated blower, I have no doubt the back pack is the way to go but if you're looking to replace a few implements, it's definitely worth a closer look.

 

[Chris4x4Gill2]

I have never used the Stihl combi system - let me say that first. Although I have looked at them in the stores.

My experience, if you need to do a job, buy the tool for that job. Not a jack of all trades, master of none version.

I have tried other do it all type setups in the past and always been disapointed and ended up buying the real tool in the end.

 

[MJB24]

I have a BR 600 Magnum and a BR 550. These are definitely overkill for homeowner use.

If this is the style you are interested in let me know. A local contractor I sell to buys these by the dozen and that is how I got mine.

He prefers the BR550

 

[trogo]

Your comparing apples and oranges. The Stihl BR600 Backpack blower is much better than any hand-held blower. If you need a leaf blower for anything more than a small yard, get a quality backpack. I've had a BR600 for 3 years and have never had a single problem.

If you need a backpack blower, recommend doing some comparison shopping. Stihl, Shindaiwa, Redmax, Husqvarna, and Echo all make excellent blowers. Some are true 2-stroke engines and others are 4-Mix Units, which is a 4-stroke engine that uses premix for lubrication.

My personal preference for 4-Mix is the Stihl BR600 and for 2-stroke the Shindaiwa EB802.

 

[rlitman]

Your comparing apples and oranges. The Stihl BR600 Backpack blower is much better than any hand-held blower.

This is true. However the Kombi blower is actually much more power than any regular hand held blower too, if you match it with the KM130 engine. With a smaller engine it has less power.

Which would I buy:

I have a backpack AND a Kombi blower. I cannot safely hand my wife with long hair the backpack. I already had the Kombi string trimmer, edger, and hedge trimmer. It was less money to buy a blower attachment to have as a backup, than to buy a separate hand held blower, and doing it that way leaves me with one less engine to maintain.

As for the "Not a jack of all trades, master of none", regarding the Kombi, nothing could be farther from the truth. The Kombi string trimmer is exactly the same machine as their regular string trimmer, with the exception of the clamp in the middle of the shaft. The split in the middle of the shaft is not prone to failure, and the Kombi is no less a machine than the regular dedicated machine.

That being said, there is not much that can compare with a backpack blower, except perhaps a wheeled ground blower.

 

[TreePointer]

I have a Stihl Kombi KM-90R with multiple attachments, including the BG-KM blower. Do not underestimate this blower. It blows leaves just as well or even better than my brother's Echo backpack blower.

Even though the KM-90R engine is only 28.4cc, it produces 536 cfm. There are backpack blowers at almost twice the engine displacement that don't produce that. Are there backpack blowers that produce more cfm and velocity? Yes, but the lower end backpacks often are not better than the Kombi.

If you are blowing leaves in a very large yard/area, then I'd lean more towards a higher end backpack, but rest assured that the Kombi blower is not a gimmick.

 

[Tripp2012]

Think what you'll be using it for. Do you need to blow clippings off the drive, or dry leaves off the sidewalk? You may get by with the Combi. If you need to move leaves in the fall out of the yard? You will need a back pack blower. I have the Husqvarna 570BTS it will move wet leaves sticks acorns rocks sticks spider webs from eaves you name it. The small housing on the combi blower will not move the volume of air needed to move many leaves if that's what you want to do.

That being said the combi system is very nice it's not you old multi tool system if you get the KM90 or higher power head you are into the pro line for the combi not homeowner stuff. A lot of landscapers are picking up combi systems for trimming, pruning, and hedge trimming.

 

[rlitman]

The small housing on the combi blower will not move the volume of air needed to move many leaves if that's what you want to do.

Have you used it?

I though it was silly looking too. I asked the dealer for his opinion. He told me to bring my Kombi engine over and try out the display blower attachment. There were no leaves on the ground at the time, but I was easily blowing around rocks in his landscape. I was actually worried it could tear up chunks of his sod.

The Kombi blower uses a multi blade turbine, and has an output tube that is comparable to a backpack. Will it compete with the most powerful professional backpack blowers out there (like a BR600 Magnum)? No. But it easily competes with more moderate backpack blowers, and even with a KM90 engine, there is no hand held blower that can touch it.

The long reach is actually a plus when blowing out flower beds. The down side is that even with the ******** your shoulder, the way you support its weight is more fatiguing than a backpack blower if you're using it all day.

 

[mtnwkr]

Don't have experience with the combi system. I have spent maybe a year of my life with a backpack blower on though. I just purchased a (used) stihl bg86 handheld blower. It's their top of the line pro handheld and it aint no toy. I didn't want a backpack that took up extra room. The BG86 blows 459cfm, which is more than some backpacks, compared to the br550 backpack which blows 530cfm. Cleared wet rocks, sticks, leaves etc this morning and was surprised how well it worked. Got it nearly new on Craigslist for $100.

 

[Tripp2012]

Have you used it?

.

Yes I have demoed it, didn't mean to sound like it don't have it's place it does. But I use my 570 for leaf clean up in the fall I like being able to move large piles of wet leaves.

 

[TreePointer]

I use a Stihl double shoulder harness that's pretty comfortable. It's actually more comfortable than my backpack blower because the Kombi is much lighter.

There is a chart with the Kombi blower specs here:
http://www.stihlusa.com/products/multi-task-tools/accessories/kombisystem-attachments/kmbg/

I have a few handheld blowers, a backpack blower, Kombi, and 9 hp Little Wonder. I use the Little Wonder and Kombi, and the backpack sits in the garage. The Kombi is also nice for quick little jobs like blowing off the lawn tractor after mowing.

 

[rlitman]

Don't have experience with the combi system. I have spent maybe a year of my life with a backpack blower on though. I just purchased a (used) stihl bg86 handheld blower. It's their top of the line pro handheld and it aint no toy. I didn't want a backpack that took up extra room. The BG86 blows 459cfm, which is more than some backpacks, compared to the br550 backpack which blows 530cfm. Cleared wet rocks, sticks, leaves etc this morning and was surprised how well it worked. Got it nearly new on Craigslist for $100.

I used to have a BG85. Same performance as the BG86, except that the 85 would vibrate the **** out of your hands.
The Kombi blower is quite a bit more powerful than this. But still not quite as powerful as my BR500 backpack (which is not a super power backpack).

All that said, I prefer to use the backpack, because it is more comfortable as a blower. But I use the Kombi machine all the time for its other features.

Maybe I'd feel otherwise if I had the harness and not just the plain shoulder strap.

 

[MDSPHOTO]

I was considering the largest engine with the combi system which the dealer said was about 90 CFM less than the 600. I was blowing leaves and rocks out of the grass with both of them and you could tell the 600 was a little stronger, but for my use I doubt it would make a huge difference. Just wanted to be sure the combi was not going to turn out to be a gimmick that would be discontinued anytime soon and that the other attachments would work as well as the individual piece.

 

[firebox40dash5]

I was considering the largest engine with the combi system which the dealer said was about 90 CFM less than the 600. I was blowing leaves and rocks out of the grass with both of them and you could tell the 600 was a little stronger, but for my use I doubt it would make a huge difference. Just wanted to be sure the combi was not going to turn out to be a gimmick that would be discontinued anytime soon and that the other attachments would work as well as the individual piece.

They've been doing the split-shaft thing with pro models for a good bit, and I think they did it with consumer models even longer. I don't think it's going much of anywhere. I thought they even used to make bigger pro models than the 130, but I could be wrong there. If I were picking up a new trimmer, I'd definitely pick up that 130 Kombi... there's plenty of jobs (like a pole pruner or pole hedge trimmer) where it's not even a "jack of all trades", it's just the same thing with more versatility.

IMO definitely buy from their Pro line, though. Not saying their consumer stuff is junk, but, well, it's price-point equipment to compete with price-point Husky equipment they make for big box stores.

 

[outdoorsman310]

I would get the backpack model. Also I would look at echo and husqvarna although I have no personal experience with husq but echo has been good to me although the EPA is ruining engines-slowly. Whatever you choose, make sure to run a good quality conventional 2 stroke oil for break in at a 32-1 or 40-1 mix. Run a couple gallons or so through it and you can switch to synthetic if you choose. The reason for 50-1 mixes is for emissions only.

 

[roalco]

I've had a 130 Kombi for a few years now, a truly quality, powerful machine. I use it mostly for the blower (it looks weird but really moves air!) but love the pole chainsaw head and extension. Have a set of hedge shears and trimmer head for it too.
I would say that it's a very good investment that can and will grow with your requirements. And it's much lighter than my stihl 090! ;-)

 

[dr_clyde]

I have the BR 600. Awesome blower. Would definetly recommend it. Makes short work of even soaking wet leaves.

 

[bad12jr]

I was a Stihl silver tech for 5 years before switching jobs. The kombi setup is awesome. Someone busted the gear box on there fs 130 down. Sell them kombi trimmer end for a replacement. Want a.pole pruner but don't need 12 foot of pole. Buy the pole attachment and put it on your fs 90.

All stihl did was make a quick connect coupling and put the tried and trusted attachments on each end.

The one thing I will recommend is run full synthetic oil. Well worth the engine life and performance

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2

 

[adams5104]

I have a BR 600 Magnum and it is awesome!. I would buy it again.

 

[adams5104]

I have a BR 600 Magnum. I have talked with landscapers and most will agree that the 600 mag is the one to get.

 

[TreePointer]

I would get the backpack model. Also I would look at echo and husqvarna although I have no personal experience with husq but echo has been good to me although the EPA is ruining engines-slowly. Whatever you choose, make sure to run a good quality conventional 2 stroke oil for break in at a 32-1 or 40-1 mix. Run a couple gallons or so through it and you can switch to synthetic if you choose. The reason for 50-1 mixes is for emissions only.

I wouldn't do 32:1 with modern 2-cycle oils, even for break-in, unless you were doing something like chainsaw milling.

Note that Stihl's 4-Mix engine (their version of a 4-stroke engine) has valves that require quality oil at 50:1. Those who stray away from the recommended synthetic oil at 50:1 find they run into trouble with these.

 

[bad12jr]

I wouldn't do 32:1 with modern 2-cycle oils, even for break-in, unless you were doing something like chainsaw milling.

Note that Stihl's 4-Mix engine (their version of a 4-stroke engine) has valves that require quality oil at 50:1. Those who stray away from the recommended synthetic oil at 50:1 find they run into trouble with these.

^^^^ whs. These engines are designed for 50:1. 32:1 will run absolutely awful and foul plugs. Break in is go run the **** out of it. These engines are meant to be run wide open not half throttle.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2

 

[pepi]

I have a BR 600 Magnum. I have talked with landscapers and most will agree that the 600 mag is the one to get.

Dittos X2 I just got one of these, I am careful not to point it at the house it could blow it off the foundation... All kidding aside this blower is the bomb.

Fuel mix, two tips, us the factory oil and high test .... Yes, I said high test I have never ever had a start problem (word issue was avoided purposely). Just a home owner, the tools sit all winter with whatever fuel is left in the tank @ the last usage. Spring time top em off one pull and we are off.

 

[jhelrey]

I personally have the Echo 770T. It's my toy! Neighbors will be raking and I just blow the leaves around my yard and into the woods behind my house.

http://www.echo-usa.com/Products/Blowers/PB-770T

 

[MDSPHOTO]

What are your thoughts on the $466 price for the BR600?

 

[trogo]

I have a BR 600 Magnum and it is awesome!. I would buy it again.

With Stihl, anything less than MSRP is a buy. The BR600 has remained $499 for many years without a price increase. I've spent $0 in maintenance for last 3 years and it starts every time and performs flawless. As an added bonus, they hold value real well and demand is high for a nice used non-commercial BR600.

Lugging around a handheld gets real old after 30 minutes runtime.

Just a note, the valves need adjusting after 120 hours use, which is a very easy job.

 

[trogo]

I have a BR 600 Magnum. I have talked with landscapers and most will agree that the 600 mag is the one to get.

Around here landscapers use mostly Stihl or Shindaiwa backpacks. Also see lots of Echo trimmers. The BR600 is probably the lightest of the high powered blowers.

 

[outdoorsman310]

I wouldn't do 32:1 with modern 2-cycle oils, even for break-in, unless you were doing something like chainsaw milling.

Note that Stihl's 4-Mix engine (their version of a 4-stroke engine) has valves that require quality oil at 50:1. Those who stray away from the recommended synthetic oil at 50:1 find they run into trouble with these.

4 mix aside Here is what I will say from my knowledge and experience as a small engine and auto mechanic in training. Small handheld 2 stroke engines used commonly in outdoor power equipment use diaphragm carburetors to allow them to have consistent and reliable fuel flow at all angles. These differ from dirt bike carburetors that use a float to regulate fuel flow and have changeable jets. I will get back to this later.
A piston port 2 stroke engine (no reed valves or rotary valve for induction) uses ports in the cylinder to expel exhaust gases and take in fresh air and fuel. This allows it to have a power stroke every time the piston reaches the top of the cylinder. The intake charge first goes through the port to the crankcase where it lubricates crankshaft bearings before being forced into the cylinder where it has to lubricate the cylinder, rings, and piston. The oil has to maintain a film between the cyl and piston to prevent them from touching. The oil also helps the rings seal increasing the compression and power, reducing friction, facilitating cooling and extending equipment life.
A 2 stroke engine that is operated at higher rpms more often requires more oil because when rpms are increased, the tendency for oil to separate from fuel and air in the cylinder is decreased. This means that joe shmo putting around at 2000 rpms in his backyard all day can use 70-1 but if that ratio was used at 10,000 rpms constantly like in a race application, the oil would be flying out of the exhaust and not enough would be coating the internal parts of the engine. For a dirtbike that is racing and is at high rpms most of it's life, It will make the most power with an extremely rich fuel oil ratio say 16-1. however it must be tuned and jetted for that mixture. If it was a stock carburetor, using a high oil-fuel ratio would cause the bike to run lean starving for fuel and oil. that is what will happen to a small engine that has a diaphragm carb even after extensive tuning because it will be unable to pump that thick of a fuel-not good. Also if you run 100-1 in a small engine it will run rich because of the lowered viscosity of the mixture, fouling plugs and if used at high rpms the majority of the time like a leafblower have a starvation for oil.

for a small 2 stroke engine it should be broken in using a good quality conventional 2 stroke oil. 32-1 should be fine but anything leaner than 40-1 may not be sufficient. synthetic would not allow proper wearing in of your newly machined engine parts! after breaking it in, synthetic can be used if desired but is not required. Now if you have been wondering this whole time why your engine says use only xxxxx synthetic at this ratio it is because epa has emissions requirements for OPE and the manufacturers have put catalysts on small 2 strokes and leaned out the oil ratio to comply with emissions regulations. Your equipment would probably work ok if you just ran it like that but it would not be performing at top potential or for the maximum life possible.

 

[rlitman]

Sounds nice, but richer than 50:1 starts to carbon foul these machines.
That is light on the lubrication as you said though, which is why Stihl insists on synthetic oil.

 

[outdoorsman310]

The carbon buildup should not be a problem with todays 2 stroke oils even the conventional unless you buy 99cent cheapo oil thankfully oils have come a long way from what they used to be!!

 

[TreePointer]

4 mix aside Here is what I will say from my knowledge and experience as a small engine and auto mechanic in training....

I respect your knowledge and experience, and I'm pretty sure that's how most of us here learned it about engine break-in. However, I've also come to learn that with MODERN 2-cycle oils 32:1 is not necessary for break-in. Also, synthetic oils are just fine for break-in of 2-cycle engines like those found on chainsaws and blowers. The one thing that 32:1 will get you is build-up in the exhaust port and muffler.

There is a loooong debate over this on many OPE forums. Search ArboristSite.com for one.

My best advice is to follow the instructions that comes with the equipment.

 

[outdoorsman310]

i meant a ratio between 32-1 and 40-1 meaning dont go much richer than 32-1 or you could have fuel delivery problems. personally i run 32-1 (4 oz per gallon) because thats what i put in my dirt bikes. but 40-1 would be good. I have personally seen the effects of improper break-in with synthetic oil on my echo srm-225. I saved up my money and bought it brand new when i was 12 or something. I just did what the manual said echo power blend 50-1 89 octane ect and it only had about 90psi of compression. also noticed one score mark on the piston while i had the muffler off for whatever reason. This told me 2 things. the oil film had broken down at some point and allowed a scratch to form on the piston, and the engine had not broken in properly. there was also normal carbon build up.
*one thing i forgot about the dirt bike oil ratios was that there was less carbon buildup to go along with the reduced wear and increased power when more oil was used.
Here is a picture of a canadian hitachi manual.http://scontent-b-iad.**.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/1010871_10152063316119838_977188652_n.jpg

 

[outdoorsman310]

sorry about filling your thread with oil ratios and stuff. I see that blower is a 4 mix. I prefer backpack over handheld blowers and having used a fs90r I can say that I am not a fan of their 4 mix engines for these reasons;mixing gas and oil for a 4 stroke, they dont seem to like being pinned all day, do not have the rpm range or power per cc of a comparable 2 stroke, or the simplicity, 4 mix requires more maintenance. They are more fuel efficient than the same cc 2 stroke and the sound may be preferred to a 2t although 4 mix sound carries further. In any case I hope that some of the information I posted was helpful and that whatever piece of equipment you choose works well and lasts long.

 

[TreePointer]

sorry about filling your thread with oil ratios and stuff. I see that blower is a 4 mix. I prefer backpack over handheld blowers and having used a fs90r I can say that I am not a fan of their 4 mix engines for these reasons;mixing gas and oil for a 4 stroke, they dont seem to like being pinned all day, do not have the rpm range or power per cc of a comparable 2 stroke, or the simplicity, 4 mix requires more maintenance. They are more fuel efficient than the same cc 2 stroke and the sound may be preferred to a 2t although 4 mix sound carries further. In any case I hope that some of the information I posted was helpful and that whatever piece of equipment you choose works well and lasts long.

Don't be fooled by the sound and feel of the 4-mix engine. I have that same FS-90R engine on my Kombi KM-90R. They sound gives the impression of not being as powerful as a conventional 2-cycle engine, but they are powerful beasts. Put a saw blade or the chainsaw (pole pruner) attachment on it and you will notice the rpms and especially the torque. It will power through a kerf better than conventional 2-cycle engines of similar displacement.

I do agree that 4-mix will eventually require more maintenance down the road, namely valve adjustment.

 

[TreePointer]

...I have personally seen the effects of improper break-in with synthetic oil on my echo srm-225. I saved up my money and bought it brand new when i was 12 or something. I just did what the manual said echo power blend 50-1 89 octane ect and it only had about 90psi of compression. also noticed one score mark on the piston while i had the muffler off for whatever reason. This told me 2 things. the oil film had broken down at some point and allowed a scratch to form on the piston, and the engine had not broken in properly. there was also normal carbon build up.

Scoring on the piston does not necessarily indicate oil break down or improper engine break-in. There are a multitude of other factors. You could have had carbon buildup in the exhaust port or other debris that broke free and managed to get onto the piston side. Maybe the fuel sat idle in the container or machine's tank and was not shaken before use. Maybe the factory tuning or initial tuning was too lean. Maybe the tuning was in error because it was bouncing off a limited coil. Maybe there was an air leak somewhere. And so on....

If you check one of today's Echo manuals for those engines, they say something like the following:

Echo premium Power Blend X TM Universal 2-Stroke Oil may be mixed at 50:1 ratio for application in all Echo engines sold in the past regardless of ratio specified in those manuals.

 

[outdoorsman310]

it was a minor score and could have been caused by carbon, debris, ect but the 4 mix didnt have the blade rpms that my trimmer does. it weighed more which i usually dont complain about weight and just say if it weighs too much you have to use it more but anyway i just prefer light 2 strokes to 4 mix engines. I dont see any advantage of 4 mix over say a honda GX25 or something. I put an expansion chamber on my echo about a year ago and wow what a difference! I could not believe the pipe worked that well on the engine and it definitely was peppier with the pipe although somewhat loud and cumbersome. I guess this should go in another thread as it is more about engines and technology than what leafblower to buy?

 

[rlitman]

sorry about filling your thread with oil ratios and stuff. I see that blower is a 4 mix. I prefer backpack over handheld blowers and having used a fs90r...

The FS90R, the KM130R, and the BR600 (and the BR500 I own) are ALL 4-mix engines.
That includes the Kombi machine, AND the backpack it is being compared with.
They are WAY better than their conventional 2 cycle cousins. Better fuel economy. Less noise. MORE power (they just don't sound as powerful), and most important, after an hour's worth of work you can walk into the house and not smell like unburned gasoline or be yelled at by your spouse.

Valve adjustment is a 15 minute job for someone who'se never done it before and is following along on a youtube video. Less than 5 minutes on the 2nd try, and it only gets done after 130 hours of operation. That's many years of use for a homeowner.

 

[outdoorsman310]

they do not make more power per cc compared with a 2t engine but I am curious as to why stihl made a 4 mix instead of using a separate oiling system like honda. It would have better emissions but you would have to change the oil sometimes that takes 2 minutes maybe. also modern 2 strokes and your 4 mixes have little cats in the mufflers to prevent you from decreasing the mosquito population!!

 

[MDSPHOTO]

So my take on this thread is go with the kombi system with the K 130R power head OR go with the backpack, but make sure to mix my oil/gas ratio at 50:1 OR 32:1. Okay I got it.

My decision is to go with the Kombi System and will mix the oil/gas to what won't invalidate my warranty.

Thanks