Need to remove nickel plating

[pcmeiners]

So I have an old Nation Cash Register with the key lever arms needing re-plating. Tried plating over thoroughly cleaned nickel plate, nothing happens as the old nickel plate pacifies and will not plate. Secondly I tried reverse electrolysis, only succeeded in ruining two key levers, the process removed some plating before the plating again passified. Have 22 key lever to do.

Do I go straight to sand blasting ? Grinding off the plate has issue due to attached part, no less both have a hazard of nickel dust which can not be ignored. Keep wonder what I did wrong in a previous life to find these projects, must have been really serious.

 

[Brandon_Lutz]

So I have an old Nation Cash Register with the key lever arms needing re-plating. Tried plating over thoroughly cleaned nickel plate, nothing happens as the old nickel plate pacifies and will not plate. Secondly I tried reverse electrolysis, only succeeded in ruining two key levers, the process removed some plating before the plating again passified. Have 22 key lever to do.

Do I go straight to sand blasting ? Grinding off the plate has issue due to attached part, no less both have a hazard of nickel dust which can not be ignored. Keep wonder what I did wrong in a previous life to find these projects, must have been really serious.

I've seen guys online remove chrome plating by soaking in a 30 to 40% mixture of hydrochloric acid and water. It looses up the plating and then allows for removal with a wire wheel or sandblasting. Maybe try something like that?

 

[alfadan]

Ammonia attacks copper, which is underneath the nickle, so maybe a soak in that may do it. ?

 

[DGersic]

So I have an old Nation Cash Register with the key lever arms needing re-plating.

I’d get in touch with a plater

Quality Chrome Plating

Quality Plating was established in 1976 as a custom metal finishing shop.

qualitychromeplating.com

He's semi local to me, and does really nice work.

 

[pcmeiners]

As stated this is nickel, not chrome which passives with most acid electrolytes. What happens is the plating remains untouched after a short time and any steel though higher in the electrolytic chart gets eaten.
Just did more research Caswell has Benzenesulfonic acid, 3-nitro-, sodium salt which they sell for nickel stripping, I my try that. Calling a plater is good idea.

 

[rlitman]

What metal are you trying to plate? I'd think that you'd start by plating everything in nickel and then try to cover that.

 

[pcmeiners]

Trying to plate steel, which has a thin nickel "starter" plate followed by copper plate followed by one or more nickel plates. The nickel starter plate was used so copper plate could be used to fill in imperfections, copper does not plate on steel directly it does not adhere properly thus the starter plate.

Used basically a Watts solution for plating,( nickel sulfate, nickel chloride, boric acid) after cleaning the key levers multiple times, sanding, buffing, acid striking, 4 volts low amperage a small amount of plating is removed, the remaining nickel is passified, even with frequent cleaning and acid "striking" the only things removed is any exposed steel . Strangely the damage to the steel only occurred in the last 1/2 hour while away from the plating area on the phone.

"Ammonia attacks copper, which is underneath the nickle, so maybe a soak in that may do it. ?"

Ammonia does not seem the safest why to remove plating. I already have to replace the two key levers I tried. Concentrated nitric acid I have but again it could do more damage to the steel substrate.

So I will call a plating company and look into Caswll's B9 (Sodium Benzenesulfonic acid). Yesterday after 12 hour of frustration I was totally wasted as I have 22 key lever to do and sending out would cost a fortune due to the prep work needed, figuring over $1000.00.

Thanks guys, at least I have some avenues to explore.

Well ordered the Caswell B9 nickel stripper, I have my doubts it will work but it may and a lot easier than the alternatives, will post the results.

 

[MoonRise]

Google says peroxide + white vinegar, mechanically, reverse electrolysis, or special chemical strippers like the Caswell or EPI stuff.

EPI

https://www.epi.com/products-by-need/metal-strippers.html

 

[Steve_P]

Copper does plate on bare clean steel- I have a tiny Caswell kit and have done it many times.

Typical restoration type chrome plating on bare steel is cu+ni+cr. Typical plating of a new item skips the copper.

 

[pcmeiners]

Read a number of articles from platers copper does not adhere well to steel, thus the first plate is a very thin layer of nickel. Yes I have plated copper directly on steel a few times, just because it plates does not mean it has good adhesion. Then again this for a cash register so if the plating is not perfect does it matter. All the key lever have plating with tinny holes down to the steel, I have to remove the present plating. I did plate a bar of copper to see if my solution was good, only took 30 seconds for a coat of nickel meanwhile I tried to plate for hours, only plated a thin coat of nickel which came off when cleaning the items.

peroxide + white vinegar, mechanically, reverse electrolysis,

Saw that,, sounds like it would work, but I was not interested in mixing it as to the ratios of the chemicals, or adding the correct amount of chemicals for replenishment. Have an order Caswell B9 coming in. Benzenesulfonic acid, 3-nitro-, sodium, the active ingredient seems fairly safe, not my safety the 22 parts I have to strip's safety.

 

[Beerhippie]

Caswells: https://caswellplating.com/metalx-b...ecdJ4LOY-b2XpfQAUmvk98EdqIu_DUiqTGpHiSONPUJR2

**** works like magic. No electrolysis, nothing, just let it soak in the warm solution. I used a large SS pot and put it on a heat plate to keep it warm.

Oops--beat me to it!

 

[OccupantRJ]

I dealt with having the chrome and nickel plating done locally for the manufacturing company I worked for, and delivered and picked up literally multiple tons of pallet loads of small parts on a regular basis over 30 years, usually an average of 3 week intervals. I dealt with the same 3 guys privately with my motorcycle parts since 1975. Their method for batch production work was an acid bath, with other various dips, then copper plate before nickel or nickel-chrome. Never have I ever had an adhesion issue with their work over 45 years and multiple hundreds of thousands of pieces. They can do parts from tiny barrel plating up to around 22 feet long In the longest vats.

 

[DocsMachine]

Several people have mentioned Caswell- have you tried their electroless nickel? You might be able to scuff/prep the original surface, then just dunk 'em in the electroless solution for a bit and get a fresh layer over the original.

I don't know if that'll work, but I've plated a bunch of small steel and brass parts with a Caswell electroless kit over the years.

Doc.

 

[pcmeiners]

Trouble with the plating is there are many small holes right down to the steel there is no way any cleaner or plating will get past particles down in the small hole, so it creates a contamination situation . I guess most cash register of the era have been sitting in un-conditioned garages, basements or warehouses for decades with condensation moisture.

Several people have mentioned Caswell- have you tried their electroless nickel?

First I am laying out a lot of money so far, I am not changing chemicals, kits or procedures procedure. The Watts bath will work with the original plating removed .

 

[JuncleJohn]

I would rather take my parts to a plating company and pay them to do it correctly than try it myself and have to deal with trying to properly dispose of the left over chemicals.

My first job out of high school was working at a plating company.

John

 

[pcmeiners]

Getting rid of the waste is not to bad, at least once a year the county has a hazard waste day, basically I will let all liquid evaporate down to crystal form before dump day. Biggest issue for me is any grinding, polishing has to be done outside due to the plating dust.

As to sending the key levers out for plating.... the keys are irregularly shaped and will require at least a days labor just cleaning. sanding and polishing them before the plating. Would love to send them out but estimating well over a $1000. just for prep.

 

[senlow]

Getting rid of the waste is not to bad, at least once a year the county has a hazard waste day, basically I will let all liquid evaporate down to crystal form before dump day. Biggest issue for me is any grinding, polishing has to be done outside due to the plating dust.

As to sending the key levers out for plating.... the keys are irregularly shaped and will require at least a days labor just cleaning. sanding and polishing them before the plating. Would love to send them out but estimating well over a $1000. just for prep.

Another option is to send the parts to a plater to strip, return to you for prep work (bead blast, polish or whatever), and then back to the plater for plating the parts. I've done this numerous times.

 

[seber]

Not only does copper plate well on steel, it is the go to for true corrosion resistance. It is the only way fish hooks are done. Not for finish quality, but for best nickel adhesion.

 

[pcmeiners]

Another option is to send the parts to a plater to strip, return to you for prep work (bead blast, polish or whatever), and then back to the plater for plating the parts. I've done this numerous times.

The Watts bath plates fine, tried it on clean metal, no sense in sending out. The plate removal and metal prep is the time consuming part.

"Not only does copper plate well on steel, it is the go to for true corrosion resistance. It is the only way fish hooks are done. Not for finish quality, but for best nickel adhesion."....... is that so ?

"High-quality copper plating on steel requires rigorous cleaning, a cyanide or nickel strike layer for adhesion, and an acid copper sulfate bath for thickness. The process involves removing contaminants, applying a 0.5–2um
strike layer, electroplating in a copper sulfate/sulfuric acid solution, followed by rinsing and polishing"

 

[senlow]

If you are confident in doing the prep and the plating, then sending out for strip only may make sense. The platers that I work with typically charge half of the plating (No blasting or polishing) price.

 

[seber]

The Watts bath plates fine tried it on clean metal, no sense in sending out. The plate removal and metal prep is the time consuming part.

"It is the only way fish hooks are done. Not for finish quality, but for best nickel adhesion."....... is that so

"High-quality copper plating on steel requires rigorous cleaning, a cyanide or nickel strike layer for adhesion, and an acid copper sulfate bath for thickness. The process involves removing contaminants, applying a 0.5–2um
strike layer, electroplating in a copper sulfate/sulfuric acid solution, followed by rinsing and polishing"

Exactly. That is the process used to the letter. Nickel strike layer is the term for the copper plate.

 

[dscheidt]

Exactly. That is the process used to the letter. Nickel strike layer is the term for the copper plate.

I was under the impression that the nickle strike layer was pure nickel, but super thin and often nearly transparent. The nickel provides a more reactive surface to bond other metals to.

 

[pcmeiners]

You are correct, a very thin layer of nickel for adhesion of the copper or other metals, copper is next used to fill in imperfection, possibly multiple copper layers with sanding polishing to fill in blemishes, then nickel layer(s) as a top coat. The copper plate is used to fill in imperfections as nickel is generally very hard, difficult to grind or sand unlike copper.

"





Wood's Nickel Strike is an acidic electrolyte used to activate stainless steel and high-alloy steels for plating by ensuring maximum adhesion. The standard formula consists of 240 g/L (32 oz/gal) Nickel Chloride (

) and 10–15% by volume Hydrochloric Acid (

), operated at room temperature"

 

[dscheidt]

You are correct, a very thin layer of nickel for adhesion of the copper or other metals, copper is next used to fill in imperfection, possibly multiple copper layers with sanding polishing to fill in blemishes, then nickel layer(s) as a top coat. The copper plate is used to fill in imperfections as nickel is generally very hard, difficult to grind or sand unlike copper.

I long time ago, I knew a machinist who started working at a plating company. I thought that was a bit odd, but they did work nickel plating machine parts to bring them back to the correct dimension. I forget what he said they could apply, but it was over 50 thou. I don't think they did a huge amount of it, but it was high dollar stuff, and it always had to be done yesterday. He ran a bunch of CNC grinding machines, for the final dimensions and surface finish.